Why Parallax doesn't work

[Loudmouth]

I have shown you that very evidence is just your beliefs and has no support at all.

Where? Star spectra are very real things.

The Science of Light : Stellar Spectra

Those are scientific measurements, not beliefs.

You dismiss facing the truth without any reason for doing so.

Please start citing some evidence.

You need to do more than allude to evidence and say the word as if it was not all on my side.

You need to address stellar spectra.

The Science of Light : Stellar Spectra

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

False. If I look at the spectral lines of some element on the space station, it would not tell me how time was there would it? No more would looking at star spectra tell us if time existed the same as here...there.

Spectral lines reveal that time is at work because they depend on actions taking place within the atom. Cycles have to occur. That involves time.

 

[Loudmouth]

Spectral lines reveal that time is at work because they depend on actions taking place within the atom. Cycles have to occur. That involves time.

The wavelengths that atoms absorb and emit at are determined by the electromagnetic force which is one of the fundamental forces. Observing the same spectra in distant stars demonstrates that physics is the same in that star.

 

[Queller]

Science does need evidence for it's claims.

Then why don't you need evidence for your claims?

Whatever you think you know must include that lack of proof we see screaming out from your every post here!

You have yet to present your evidence for anything. I'm just following your lead.

Then define it, and show how we know it also exists in furthest space.

That says basically almost nothing!

Then you need to learn how to read.

WHERE is it measured? Here! Measurable by who? Us here in the present world, and science. That says precious little. We sit on the dock of the bay and watch time go by, basically! That doesn't define it!

I gave you the definition. That you don't like the definition is irrelevant.

Very funny. There is no evidence of any kind that says it is the same either.

We don't need evidence that it's the same. You need evidence that it is different if you want us to consider the possibility.

Otherwise we would be reading it here rather than being inflicted with yours and Loudmouth's fanatical denial.

I've already given you evidence, you ignored it.

I don't quite understand this.

We'll add simple English to the list of things you don't understand.

Great. This is news?? Why dance around the field of daisies all day and night just to get to the obvious??

You are the one who has been quibbling about the definition of "indefinite".

His return is certain! We do not know when the first part of that return (rapture) will be.

That's why it's indefinite.

The final return with His saints to rule will be much better known.

The Rapture is at a time that is not known. You can call that whatever you like.

Everyone in the world but you calls that indefinite.

How about this one, more on topic... can you tell us exactly how time and space are woven together here and in near space?

Unless you have evidence to the contrary they are woven together here and in near space, exactly the same as they are there and in far space. Got any contradictory evidence.

You see, if time is involved, then the baseline for parallax measurements involves time IN the so called distance measure.

Yes, it does. It involves how long it took that light to travel that distance.

By assuming that space and time are the same where the stars are, you are merely making a statement of pure faith, and faith alone. Is that what you thought science was all about!!?

Nope, science is all about evidence. In the absence of any contradictory evidence whatsoever, and with the evidence that science has, science concludes that time operates the same everywhere in the universe.

 

[Queller]

Me either. The Himalayas were likely pushed up later.

Not without additional unbiblical miracles, they didn't.

In other words you claim Genesis is fallible.

Stop telling lies about me.

Maybe when Jesus met with Moses on the mountain, He should have warned us that Genesis and the writing of Moses were actually nonsense!?

Jesus met with Moses on the mountain? Do you have scripture to support that claim?

You think believing in portals in space as described in the bible is bad??

Since there are no portals in space described in the Bible, I think you're imagining them due to a raging fever.

If it is different, how else would it have got there??

If what is different, how else would what have gotten here?

What fits best with the bible description of space and stars?

A solid dome with the sun, moon, and stars embedded in it. Like this;

How could a star fall to earth if it took billions of years?

Ever heard of a shooting star?

 

[dad]

Where? Star spectra are very real things.

The Science of Light : Stellar Spectra

Those are scientific measurements, not beliefs.



Please start citing some evidence.


You need to address stellar spectra.

The Science of Light : Stellar Spectra

From your link

"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When astronomers pass the light of a star through a spectrograph, .."[/FONT]

So, what has filtering light in our time through a glass have to do with how time exists where the star is??

 

[dad]

Spectral lines reveal that time is at work because they depend on actions taking place within the atom. Cycles have to occur. That involves time.

False. You mean taking place in the aton HERE! Naturally it would HAVE to be according to our rules and time. Not like time here CAN exist any other way than it does!! Is this not simple? Am I gifted to be able to see this? It sure seems elementary to me.

 

[dad]

The wavelengths that atoms absorb and emit at are determined by the electromagnetic force which is one of the fundamental forces.

Bingo! Therefore, is it not obvious that all atoms and light HERE MUST obey our forces?? What else could they do, revolt!?

Observing the same spectra in distant stars demonstrates that physics is the same in that star.

False. You observe HERE, and only here, always here, and no where else at all but here. No way round that one.

 

[dad]

Then why don't you need evidence for your claims?

The kind of evidence God provided for man through history doesn't fit into a modern science shoebox! Claims from science must! Otherwise they are not really science claims.

I gave you the definition. That you don't like the definition is irrelevant.

Would that have anything to do with time here or in deep space?

We don't need evidence that it's the same.

Oh my gosh!! You heard it here lurkers! They feel they can make anything up and have no need at all for any evidence.

You need evidence that it is different if you want us to consider the possibility.

The bible is highly evidenced and has been since ever God piped it down to us. In the bible, we find space and spirits and time on earth, and stars to be a certain way. That way is not the way manscience says it is.

That's why it's indefinite.

Everyone in the world but you calls that indefinite.

Now you are wandering off talking about the Rapture again. I don't care what you call it, it will be at a time that is not known to man. Why harp on this??

Unless you have evidence to the contrary they are woven together here and in near space, exactly the same as they are there and in far space. Got any contradictory evidence.

That is totally absurd, and far beyond your ability to claim. Reminds me of the same state past, you guys try to shoehorn it in, and rely on the fact that science can't prove it one way or the other.

Yes, it does. It involves how long it took that light to travel that distance.

Now you claim that a base line for trigonometry measure involves time light took?? Your case seems to have unraveled at the seams.

Nope, science is all about evidence.

I thought you just said it doesn't NEED any to claim time is the same in far space!!

You defeat yourself.

In the absence of any contradictory evidence whatsoever, and with the evidence that science has, science concludes that time operates the same everywhere in the universe.

Oh? Cite an experiment in this area!

 

[Loudmouth]

From your link

"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When astronomers pass the light of a star through a spectrograph, .."[/FONT]

So, what has filtering light in our time through a glass have to do with how time exists where the star is??

The photons are from the star. The spectrograph is not producing the light. The star is. That light has the same absorbance and emission lines that elements here on Earth have. This means that the physics of stars is exactly the same as the physics here on Earth.

 

[Loudmouth]

Bingo! Therefore, is it not obvious that all atoms and light HERE MUST obey our forces?? What else could they do, revolt!?

It demonstrates that stars are obeying those same forces, contrary to your claims.

False. You observe HERE, and only here, always here, and no where else at all but here. No way round that one.

The light is coming from the stars, not here.

 

[dad]

Not without additional unbiblical miracles, they didn't.

False. The nature of the day allowed it. You want to call that a miracle because you don't understand what state existed.

Jesus met with Moses on the mountain? Do you have scripture to support that claim?

Matthew 17:1-131 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

Since there are no portals in space described in the Bible, I think you're imagining them due to a raging fever.

Why would there be windows in space now, they were shut??

A solid dome with the sun, moon, and stars embedded in it. Like this;

Except that He placed the stars IN the firmament. Try to find a new ancient scribble.

Ever heard of a shooting star?

Is that what you think Satan and his angels are??! Also, praytell, how would a third of the stars cease to give any light anymore after they fell to earth if they were but space debris? Gong.

 

[dad]

It demonstrates that stars are obeying those same forces, contrary to your claims.

False. I claim they had better darn well obey our rules when HERE!!

1Co 13:12 -For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

The light is coming from the stars, not here.

It is existing HERE and stuffed through a glass here! You be hooped.

 

[Loudmouth]

False. I claim they had better darn well obey our rules when HERE!!

The star is the one producing the photons. The photons are not produced here. The light being produced by the star matches the known laws of physics.

It is existing HERE and stuffed through a glass here! You be hooped.

Look up into a starry sky. The light is coming from there.

 

[dad]

The star is the one producing the photons. The photons are not produced here. The light being produced by the star matches the known laws of physics.

Doesn't matter! The photons are HERE NOW! Whatever we see and interpret has to be based on our timespace and laws. Some things may not show up from the star that are there, because they cannot exist IN this timespace for all we know Of what you can see, then, we see operating as things operate HERE! This destroys your view of the universe, godless little view that it was.

Look up into a starry sky. The light is coming from there.

Also the time I suspect! The time here is possibly SET by the stars. So why would we expect time to exist there as here?? Cosmology is so small minded and chillingly godless.

There should be a class action suit for all comsologists to sue and get their education expenses back!

 

[Loudmouth]

Doesn't matter! The photons are HERE NOW!

Yes, and they came from the star. They were produced by that star with those wavelengths.

Whatever we see and interpret has to be based on our timespace and laws.

The timespace and laws at the star is what determines the wavelengths of light leaving the star.

Also the time I suspect! The time here is possibly SET by the stars. So why would we expect time to exist there as here?? Cosmology is so small minded and chillingly godless.

Your claims are unsurprisingly brainless. You can't even admit that stars produce light.

 

[Queller]

The kind of evidence God provided for man through history doesn't fit into a modern science shoebox! Claims from science must! Otherwise they are not really science claims.

God didn't provide any evidence for man of a different state past. That is entirely your claim. Your claim, you provide evidence for it.

Would that have anything to do with time here or in deep space?

Because that definition holds true both here and in deep space.

Oh my gosh!! You heard it here lurkers! They feel they can make anything up and have no need at all for any evidence.

know you're doing the YEC's favorite step, the dishonest quote mine.

The bible is highly evidenced and has been since ever God piped it down to us.

No, it isn't.

In the bible, we find space and spirits and time on earth, and stars to be a certain way. That way is not the way manscience says it is.

Yes, in the Bible we find stars, along with the sun and moon, are embedded in a solid dome over the earth with water on top of that. That's what we find in the the literalist's Bible.

Now you are wandering off talking about the Rapture again. I don't care what you call it, it will be at a time that is not known to man. Why harp on this??

Because you claimed that it wasn't indefinite.

That is totally absurd, and far beyond your ability to claim. Reminds me of the same state past, you guys try to shoehorn it in, and rely on the fact that science can't prove it one way or the other.

So I take it that's a great big NO on you having any evidence to the contrary?

Now you claim that a base line for trigonometry measure involves time light took?? Your case seems to have unraveled at the seams.

No, I didn't claim that. You can't state my case correctly.

I'm simply pointing out that distance is a function of speed multiplied by time.

186,000 miles per second x 31,566,000 seconds = 5,878,499,810,000 miles traveled in a year, AKA a light year.

What part of the above is causing you so much trouble?

I thought you just said it doesn't NEED any to claim time is the same in far space!!

You defeat yourself.

It doesn't, we have evidence anyway.

Oh? Cite an experiment in this area!

How many times do I need to cite Supernova1987a before you actually read up on it and understand it?

Never mind, I forgot who I'm talking to.

 

[Queller]

False. The nature of the day allowed it. You want to call that a miracle because you don't understand what state existed.

I see that you have provided no evidence whatsoever that the "nature" of the day was any different then than it is today.

Why would there be windows in space now, they were shut??

There never were any portals in space through which water bombarded the earth.

Except that He placed the stars IN the firmament.

Yes, that's what embedded means. Do you need a vocabulary lesson as well?

Try to find a new ancient scribble.

Is that what you think Satan and his angels are??!

You think Satan and his angels are actual stars in the sky? Which one is Satan himself?

Also, praytell, how would a third of the stars cease to give any light anymore after they fell to earth if they were but space debris? Gong.

Someone needs to read up on their scripture. The relevant verse (Matthew 24:29) states that Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

I don't see anything in there about the stars ceasing to provide light. Also, the description is perfectly compatible with destruction that could be caused by a massive series of meteor strikes (the stars falling from heaven) causing ejecta that would make the sun's light less intense and completely blocking the moon's light. After all that's how it would appear from the frame of reference of the earth. Isn't that what you're always screeching about, the proper frame of reference?

 

[dad]

Yes, and they came from the star.

Yes, and they are HERE NOW!

They were produced by that star with those wavelengths.

We see the wavelengths here, which may be a partial picture, since not all that could exist there presumably can exist here. If it can't exist here, that means we can't see it here! We also do NOT see the atoms where the star is! We see them here. Light also...here.

None of that tells us anything about time at the star anyhow.

The timespace and laws at the star is what determines the wavelengths of light leaving the star.

We do not see the light leaving the star, we see it here!

Your claims are unsurprisingly brainless. You can't even admit that stars produce light.

The issue was what light in our timespace was like, and what info it could convey.

 

[Loudmouth]

Yes, and they are HERE NOW!

They were produced THEN and THERE. By looking at those photons, we can know what the spacetime and laws were THEN and THERE.

We see the wavelengths here, which may be a partial picture, since not all that could exist there presumably can exist here. If it can't exist here, that means we can't see it here! We also do NOT see the atoms where the star is! We see them here. Light also...here.

That's nothing but blabber.

The photons we see were produced by that star in the past.

None of that tells us anything about time at the star anyhow.

You are going to need more than blabber and denial.

We do not see the light leaving the star, we see it here!

Look up in the sky. You are seeing photons leaving a star.

The issue was what light in our timespace was like, and what info it could convey.

All of the evidence demonstrates that those stars are in our timespace.