"...And your Lord is never forgetful..."

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

I'm not going to watch American Sniper but from what I hear, it's something I can add to the media productions that have an anti-Muslim slant. I said this a week or two ago but it fits perfectly with the theme of this thread:

Take this article from 1995 regarding the Oklahoma City Bombing coverage when Muslims were blamed almost immediately before all the facts were in:

But these sources and "experts" only exacerbated the mainstream media's own knee-jerk tendencies. It begins with simple stereotyping: You say bombing, they say Muslim....

....To force the Oklahoma City bombing into the pre-scripted framework of "international terrorism" and "Islamic fundamentalism," journalists had to ignore most of what is known about the history of terrorism both internationally and in this country.

The Oklahoma City Bombing ? FAIR

Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981), Aladdin (1992), Executive Decision (1996), The Siege (1998), East is East (1999) all portray Muslims (or Arabs) in a negative fashion before 2001.

From the first link below:

The report queries why a children's cartoon describes Aladdin's homeland as "barbaric", and notes that "good Arabs" including Aladdin are given American accents while the rest of the cast have "exaggerated and ridiculous Arab accents".

Articles here, here, and here regarding that concept. And let's not forget Not Without My Daughter.

 

[ContraMundum]

I'm not going to watch American Sniper but from what I hear, it's something I can add to the media productions that have an anti-Muslim slant. I said this a week or two ago but it fits perfectly with the theme of this thread:

Take this article from 1995 regarding the Oklahoma City Bombing coverage when Muslims were blamed almost immediately before all the facts were in:

But these sources and "experts" only exacerbated the mainstream media's own knee-jerk tendencies. It begins with simple stereotyping: You say bombing, they say Muslim....

....To force the Oklahoma City bombing into the pre-scripted framework of "international terrorism" and "Islamic fundamentalism," journalists had to ignore most of what is known about the history of terrorism both internationally and in this country.

The Oklahoma City Bombing ? FAIR

Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981), Aladdin (1992), Executive Decision (1996), The Siege (1998), East is East (1999) all portray Muslims (or Arabs) in a negative fashion before 2001.

From the first link below:

The report queries why a children's cartoon describes Aladdin's homeland as "barbaric", and notes that "good Arabs" including Aladdin are given American accents while the rest of the cast have "exaggerated and ridiculous Arab accents".

Articles here, here, and here regarding that concept. And let's not forget Not Without My Daughter.

Paranoid, victim and persecution complex. Think on those words and you will regain your independent critical thought.

Maybe if your Islamist friends stopped engaging in so much headline making violence, genocide, kidnapping, intimidation and humiliation of others people might stop associating such crimes with Islam.

 

[smaneck]

Maybe if your Islamist friends stopped engaging in so much headline making violence, genocide, kidnapping, intimidation and humiliation of others people might stop associating such crimes with Islam.

It is hard to outdo Christianity when it comes to genocide.

And what makes you think she has friends who commit these acts of violence?

 

[TG123]

TG is like most people that get in trouble with the authorities in similar examples (eg G20 protesters) They put themselves in a situation where they know they are going to clash with the authorities and then cry foul when the inevitable happens. Then they have "proof" of the "oppression" and the aggression of whoever it is they demonize. They may as well jump in a blackberry bush and blame the vegetation for the cuts and abrasions.

I was going to respond by calling you an ignoramus, but that would be giving you too much credit.

During my work in the West Bank, I wasn't once arrested by the IDF or Israeli police, though they threatened me many times and arrested some of my friends.

Yes, I did put myself in a situation where we were at odds. I witnessed them humiliating people, punishing them for things they did not do, allowing settlers to assault and hospitalize men, women and even children. I also witnessed them shooting teargas at demonstrators, regardless of whether or not they were violent. I saw them shoot people who were throwing rocks at them, and arrest and beat and teargas people who were doing nothing of the sort, and even some of those who were asking the ones throwing rocks (who were mostly youth) to stop.
When that was happening, yes, I chose to "jump into the blackberry bush" by filming them and taking photos and telling them what they were doing is wrong.

I take full responsibility for what I did, and never once asked them to go easy on me. I did the work I was doing fully aware there was a very high possibility of getting arrested, beaten up or teargassed, and a much lower but still real possibility of getting shot or killed.

I have no regrets for what I did and if it was possible I would gladly do it again.


BTW The people who beat me up with a metal pipe and sticks were not Israeli soldiers or police, but settlers. None of them were arrested for what they did to me, or for an attack earlier that I witnessed when they beat up an elderly man as he was working in his yard. Despite a video that was taken of that attack where the ones who perpetrated the assault were clearly visible, no action was taken. I witnessed the soldiers walking the attackers off the property, while others pointed guns at the victim's relatives.

 

[TG123]

The IDF is more deserving of being called terrorists than Hamas. For all of Israel's false propaganda about Hamas' supposed tunnels leading to kindergartens, it is Israel that killed 4 children playing on a beach in plain sight.

They are both terrorists, even if one group has more victims than the other.

Al Qaeda may have killed more people than the Aryan Nations, but that does not mean that one deserves the title of terrorist and the other does not, or deserves it less.

 

[TG123]

Yes, very foggy in his observations and radical in his opinions.

I would rather be a radical and in your eyes be "very foggy" in my observations, than be a hypocrite like you who condemns one form of terrorism while cheering on another.

Jesus didn't speak badly of radicals. We can't say the same about hypocrites, can we?

 

[ContraMundum]

It is hard to outdo Christianity when it comes to genocide.

Give it a rest. Can you not bore us to death with this hyperbole?

And what makes you think she has friends who commit these acts of violence?

She is an Islamist. She morally supports these things. You see it in every post.

 

[ContraMundum]

I was going to respond by calling you an ignoramus, but that would be giving you too much credit.

During my work in the West Bank, I wasn't once arrested by the IDF or Israeli police, though they threatened me many times and arrested some of my friends.

Yes, I did put myself in a situation where we were at odds. I witnessed them humiliating people, punishing them for things they did not do, allowing settlers to assault and hospitalize men, women and even children. I also witnessed them shooting teargas at demonstrators, regardless of whether or not they were violent. I saw them shoot people who were throwing rocks at them, and arrest and beat and teargas people who were doing nothing of the sort, and even some of those who were asking the ones throwing rocks (who were mostly youth) to stop.
When that was happening, yes, I chose to "jump into the blackberry bush" by filming them and taking photos and telling them what they were doing is wrong.

I take full responsibility for what I did, and never once asked them to go easy on me. I did the work I was doing fully aware there was a very high possibility of getting arrested, beaten up or teargassed, and a much lower but still real possibility of getting shot or killed.

I have no regrets for what I did and if it was possible I would gladly do it again.


BTW The people who beat me up with a metal pipe and sticks were not Israeli soldiers or police, but settlers. None of them were arrested for what they did to me, or for an attack earlier that I witnessed when they beat up an elderly man as he was working in his yard. Despite a video that was taken of that attack where the ones who perpetrated the assault were clearly visible, no action was taken. I witnessed the soldiers walking the attackers off the property, while others pointed guns at the victim's relatives.

So you confirm my observations yet call me less than an ignoramus?

 

[ContraMundum]

I would rather be a radical and in your eyes be "very foggy" in my observations, than be a hypocrite like you who condemns one form of terrorism while cheering on another.

When did I ever cheer on terrorism? Just because I am prepared to speak out about the whitewashing of the Islamists that goes on here doesn't mean I support the Israeli settlements. You should ask around a bit and you'd soon know I'm very critical of Israeli politics. But you don't, do you?

I think you are believing your own inner narrative about others a bit too much here.

Get a job at a cinema. I hear they are always looking for projectionists.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

They are both terrorists, even if one group has more victims than the other.

What makes Hamas a terrorist group?

 

[TG123]

What makes Hamas a terrorist group?

The same thing that makes the IDF a terrorist group. They carry out armed actions that injure and kill civilians.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

The same thing that makes the IDF a terrorist group. They carry out armed actions that injure and kill civilians.

30 Israeli civilians have died since 2001 from (unguided) rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza into Israel. I think you might have a point if they had the capability of guided missile attacks but still managed to repeatedly hit places like hospitals and schools even though they knew their exact locations.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I find it somewhat sickening how both sides in this conflict use the "the other side does wrong as well, so what we do is justifiable"-rationale.

That not how this works.

 

[dcalling]

30 Israeli civilians have died since 2001 from (unguided) rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza into Israel. I think you might have a point if they had the capability of guided missile attacks but still managed to repeatedly hit places like hospitals and schools even though they knew their exact locations.

The intention is more important then outcome.

Car accidents in US per year alone kill more people then Gaza conflict death combined on both side for many years. That doesn't make the drivers terrorists.

God looks into our hearts instead of just actions.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

I find it somewhat sickening how both sides in this conflict use the "the other side does wrong as well, so what we do is justifiable"-rationale.

Are you referring to me? Because I haven't said anything of the sort.

The intention is more important then outcome

Hamas' leadership has said that they do not intentionally target civilians. The numbers seem to back them up especially considering they only have crude, unguided missiles and such. Their military wing, even though they went into Israel through tunnels, attacked Israeli soldiers face-to-face instead of going after non-combatants.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Are you referring to me? Because I haven't said anything of the sort.

No. It was more of a general observation WRT this particular conflict, not just how it is discussed in this thread or how individual contributors construe it.

 

[smaneck]

30 Israeli civilians have died since 2001 from (unguided) rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza into Israel. I think you might have a point if they had the capability of guided missile attacks but still managed to repeatedly hit places like hospitals and schools even though they knew their exact locations.

Rocket and mortar attacks proved unsuccessful. That is why they turned to suicide bombings. Those killed a lot more people, most of them civilians. However there have still been ten times the number of Palestinians killed as Israelis.

 

[dcalling]

Hamas' leadership has said that they do not intentionally target civilians. The numbers seem to back them up especially considering they only have crude, unguided missiles and such. Their military wing, even though they went into Israel through tunnels, attacked Israeli soldiers face-to-face instead of going after non-combatants.

I could care less about attack on military targets, that is war and all tactics are allowed.

Most of the attacks I heard are bus stop bombers, which kills/hurts primarily civilians, those are the types I despise, and it seems there are more of that.

A more interesting questions will be, suppose the situation is reversed, that a strong Islam caliph empire is under attack by a tiny neighboring country of other religion, and the tiny coutry keep sending terrorist to blow up Muslims, but if the strong Islam empire attack back the Muslims might kill large number of civilans, do you support military action against the tiny non-muslim country (which keep sending rockets/suicide bombers to hurt the Muslims)?

 

[TG123]

30 Israeli civilians have died since 2001 from (unguided) rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza into Israel. I think you might have a point if they had the capability of guided missile attacks but still managed to repeatedly hit places like hospitals and schools even though they knew their exact locations.

We also know that a lot more Israeli civilians have died in suicide bombings, about half of which were carried out by Hamas. There were 804 documented fatalities since 1989.

List of Palestinian suicide attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, the number of Palestinians killed by the Israeli Army is far greater.
During the Second Intifada alone, the Israeli Army killed more than 3,000 Palestinians. At least one third of them were civilians, according to conservative estimates, like that of Benny Morris. According to others, like the Israeli human rights group Btselem, they made up more than 50% of the dead.
List of Palestinian civilian casualties in the Second Intifada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This does not include all the shootings in the West Bank and bombings of Gaza since after 2006.


There is no point in denying that the Israeli Army is far more harmful terrorist group than Hamas, and all of the Palestinian armed groups combined who attack civilians.

This does not make Hamas however any less of a terrorist group.


Look at it this way- since 1979, the Ku Klux Klan have perpetrated a total of only six murders in America.
Ku Klux Klan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a far less number than that killed by any African American or Hispanic street gang.

Would you say that black and Hispanic gangs are terrorist groups, while the KKK is not?


I am not defending the Israeli Army or their practices. They definitely are a terrorist group, far more deadly and murderous than any Palestinian armed group.

However, the reality of their terrorism does not make the terrorism of Hamas any less real.

 

[TG123]

Also, keep in mind that Hamas have praised and encouraged the knife attacks on Israeli civilians that have been happening during the last few months.

Hamas leaders praise Tel Aviv stabbing as 'heroic' | The Times of Israel

This attack and others like it have not been against military targets, but civilians.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-leaders-praise-tel-aviv-stabbing-as-heroic/