"...And your Lord is never forgetful..."

[TG123]

Salaam Alaikum. I'm not sure if Hamas being taken off the list is a good thing.

As far as I am concerned, Hamas is a terrorist group. So is the Israeli Army.

Instead of removing one terrorist group (Hamas) from their list, the EU should have kept it on there, and added the other (IDF).

Included on the list should also be the militaries of the United States of America, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Russia, China, Turkey, Great Britain, France, and a host of other nations that are both inside and outside of the EU that are involved in imperialism and human rights violations.

 

[ContraMundum]

Salaam Alaikum. I'm not sure if Hamas being taken off the list is a good thing.

As far as I am concerned, Hamas is a terrorist group. So is the Israeli Army.

Instead of removing one terrorist group (Hamas) from their list, the EU should have kept it on there, and added the other (IDF).

Included on the list should also be the militaries of the United States of America, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Russia, China, Turkey, Great Britain, France, and a host of other nations that are both inside and outside of the EU that are involved in imperialism and human rights violations.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...so the army of a democratically elected government with a mandate to protect their nation is a terrorist group. God forbid that an army might use force to carry out that mandate right? So, is the Ukrainian army also a terrorist group? The Canadian Army? (Watch this discussion devolve into a subjective slaughter of the word "terrorist")

This is a great demonstration of the convoluted and confused logic that makes the world a far worse place.

Really bad form. Really, really bad form.

A crime against grammar, logic, common sense and the human intellect in general.

 

[smaneck]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...so the army of a democratically elected government with a mandate to protect their nation is a terrorist group.

Uh, Hamas got democratically elected as well.

Whether or not one represents a government has no real bearing on whether they are committing acts of terrorism. Terrorism is the deliberate targeting of non-combatants in order to create terror.

 

[TG123]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...so the army of a democratically elected government with a mandate to protect their nation is a terrorist group. God forbid that an army might use force to carry out that mandate right? So, is the Ukrainian army also a terrorist group? The Canadian Army? (Watch this discussion devolve into a subjective slaughter of the word "terrorist")

Hamas is democratically elected, not unlike Netanyahu.

The IDF as well as Hamas use violence against civilians, so yes, they are both terrorist.

I am not sure if the Ukrainian army is murdering civilians, I know the Russian Army certainly is.

The Canadian Army in Afghanistan was not protecting Canadians, but they were on foreign soil as members of an occupying force. The Canadian Government also supported the Afghan government, whose members include warlords who are as bad as the Taleban, has in this way supported terrorists.

This is a great demonstration of the convoluted and confused logic that makes the world a far worse place.

Really bad form. Really, really bad form.

A crime against grammar, logic, common sense and the human intellect in general.

Sounds like according to you, the only logical, sensible and intellectual option is to be a hypocrite and support terrorism by people who share our political and religious views, and condemn the terrorism of those who don't.

While such hypocrisy may be "good form" according to you, it nevertheless remains hypocrisy and as a Christian I choose not to engage in it.

 

[LoAmmi]

CM, we all know that TG has very extreme pacifist views. He's going to make these kinds of statements.

 

[TG123]

CM, we all know that TG has very extreme pacifist views. He's going to make these kinds of statements.

Shalom and thank you, LoAmmi.

 

[smaneck]

CM, we all know that TG has very extreme pacifist views. He's going to make these kinds of statements.

At least he is consistent. He's not like the Christians in this forum who rant against Muhammad for defending His followers when they themselves are hardly pacifists.

 

[TG123]

Thank you for that also, smaneck.

 

[LoAmmi]

At least he is consistent. He's not like the Christians in this forum who rant against Muhammad for defending His followers when they themselves are hardly pacifists.

His consistency is why I will not attack him for his views being contradictory. I don't like his views and find them to be naive, but that's a different story.

 

[ContraMundum]

CM, we all know that TG has very extreme pacifist views. He's going to make these kinds of statements.

Yes, very foggy in his observations and radical in his opinions.

 

[ContraMundum]

Uh, Hamas got democratically elected as well.

I don't think so. Funny how the party with the most visible guns and the reputation to use them against their political opponents seem to always win those elections. Hardly democratic, free and fair.

Whether or not one represents a government has no real bearing on whether they are committing acts of terrorism. Terrorism is the deliberate targeting of non-combatants in order to create terror.

If terrorism is defined as you say it, then I rest my case. The IDF goes well out of its way to not target civilians and does not seek to create terror, but defend its people.

 

[smaneck]

I don't think so. Funny how the party with the most visible guns and the reputation to use them against their political opponents seem to always win those elections. Hardly democratic, free and fair.

There is no evidence the election was rigged.

If terrorism is defined as you say it, then I rest my case. The IDF goes well out of its way to target civilians and does not seek to create terror, but defend its people.

I'm going to let TG123 address that question since he has personally experienced violence at the hands of the IDF not withstanding his total pacifism.

 

[ContraMundum]

There is no evidence the election was rigged.

Riiiiiiiiiiight.

No intimidating men with guns with a violent record and testimony around in Gaza during elections? No missing persons, no murdered persons from Fatah?

Are you serious?

I'm going to let TG123 address that question since he has personally experienced violence at the hands of the IDF not withstanding his total pacifism.

TG is like most people that get in trouble with the authorities in similar examples (eg G20 protesters) They put themselves in a situation where they know they are going to clash with the authorities and then cry foul when the inevitable happens. Then they have "proof" of the "oppression" and the aggression of whoever it is they demonize. They may as well jump in a blackberry bush and blame the vegetation for the cuts and abrasions.

 

[smaneck]

Riiiiiiiiiiight.

No intimidating men with guns with a violent record and testimony around in Gaza during elections? No missing persons, no murdered persons from Fatah?

Apparently you are missing the point. If men with weapons aimed at intimidation had been posted at the polls then you could say the voting was intimidated. Merely to say there were men with violent records and guns within the country is like saying Israel's elections aren't free because IDF troops with guns are hanging around the country.

TG is like most people that get in trouble with the authorities in similar examples (eg G20 protesters) They put themselves in a situation where they know they are going to clash with the authorities and then cry foul when the inevitable happens. Then they have "proof" of the "oppression" and the aggression of whoever it is they demonize. They may as well jump in a blackberry bush and blame the vegetation for the cuts and abrasions.

If the IDF were not targeting non-combatants people like TG would not get hurt.

 

[ContraMundum]

Apparently you are missing the point. If men with weapons aimed at intimidation had been posted at the polls then you could say the voting was intimidated. Merely to say there were men with violent records and guns within the country is like saying Israel's elections aren't free because IDF troops with guns are hanging around the country.

It's about intensity. The people of Gaza know full well that Fatah supporters have been killed, exiled and kidnapped in Gaza. They also know that going against Hamas' rules can get you killed. This is simply not the case in a free society.

You're seriously not suggesting that Hamas is not a dictatorship?

If the IDF were not targeting non-combatants people like TG would not get hurt.

TG got in the way of men doing their duty. He was a pawn in the propaganda machine. Pure and simple.

 

[smaneck]

It's about intensity. The people of Gaza know full well that Fatah supporters have been killed, exiled and kidnapped in Gaza. They also know that going against Hamas' rules can get you killed. This is simply not the case in a free society.

The issue is are people being harassed at the polls? Is Hamas given access to a list of those who voted against them. It is those kinds of things that determine if they were democratically elected.

You're seriously not suggesting that Hamas is not a dictatorship?

It could be argued that Fatah is the dictatorship in that Hamas won the Palestinian Legislative elections, not just that of Gaza. However, Fatah refused to allow them govern the West Bank.

TG got in the way of men doing their duty. He was a pawn in the propaganda machine. Pure and simple.

Their 'duty' consisted of destroying the homes of unarmed civilians. Such collective punishments constitute terrorism.

 

[ContraMundum]

The issue is are people being harassed at the polls? Is Hamas given access to a list of those who voted against them. It is those kinds of things that determine if they were democratically elected.

You miss the point. They don't have to be at the polls to intimidate. Their reputation precedes them.

It could be argued that Fatah is the dictatorship in that Hamas won the Palestinian Legislative elections, not just that of Gaza. However, Fatah refused to allow them govern the West Bank.

I'm not going to argue that.

Their 'duty' consisted of destroying the homes of unarmed civilians. Such collective punishments constitute terrorism.

Hilarious. You believe only one side in the absolute of any given argument, provided it fuels argument against Israel and the Church. You are very heavily influence by Islam, aren't you?

 

[smaneck]

You miss the point. They don't have to be at the polls to intimidate. Their reputation precedes them.

Of course they do. The only reason a voter could be intimidated is if they had reason to believe it was known how they voted. That is the whole purpose behind secret ballots.

Hilarious. You believe only one side in the absolute of any given argument, provided it fuels argument against Israel and the Church. You are very heavily influence by Islam, aren't you?

The 'one side' I'm believing here is a sincere Christian's eyewitness account of what the IDF did. Of course that is substantiated by others account as well.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

The IDF is more deserving of being called terrorists than Hamas. For all of Israel's false propaganda about Hamas' supposed tunnels leading to kindergartens, it is Israel that killed 4 children playing on a beach in plain sight.

 

[ContraMundum]

The IDF is more deserving of being called terrorists than Hamas. For all of Israel's false propaganda about Hamas' supposed tunnels leading to kindergartens, it is Israel that killed 4 children playing on a beach in plain sight.

What the...? What are you ON? I know narcotics are "allowed" according to some Muslims I've met, but I never thought you would be one of them. Then again, Islamists never cease to amaze.