An attempt to eliminate God.

[listed]

Listed, please listen a moment, for what you are presently and actually promoting is what Satan himself promoted in Heaven, which is 'self-righteousness', or a self-defined law apart from the Ten Commandments of God, which is His Law, which is Righteousness [Psalms 119:142].

No I do not promote self righteousness. The righteousness I possess and promote is not my own just like Paul said in Phil 3:9. The SDA people promote self righteousness by claiming obedience to the law to the point of gloating. This is patently false.

It is not so much that you say that you promote sin, it is precisely because you say you do not, all the while you are actually promoting the transgressing of the 4th Commandment [either of yourself or for others], after Light has come to you on it, in the living/doing.

I do not promote transgression of the 4th commandment of the 10 Cs to Christians as you state. Because they would have to be subject to it in order to violate it. Christians are not subject to the law issued at Sinai.

Listed, you presently are deceived into believing that to relegate the 4th Commandment to nothingness and of no little import, and not to be obeyed, is not actually sin, that it is no transgression.

Yes admittedly I am deceived by the prophets and the testimony of Jesus Christ (God).

So, Listed, without any animosity to you, but charity, you are saying to obey God, which is good, yet all the while not actually doing it in that one point of the 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God. That is the deception that we are trying to make you aware of. That is the one point that needs to change, to come into more harmony with the entire purpose of the Everlasting Gospel.

Without any animosity towards you obedience to God does not include a past covenant. BTW the covenant issued at Sinai is the only one repealed and replaced as promised by God and testified to by God (Jesus) as having occurred.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Which law? Not the Ten commandments! For then the command to serve God alone was only for a time and we are now free to do as we please.
​

You still insist we promote sin as a right. Why?

When you promote that the ten commandments are not for christians what do you promote?

 

[listed]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Which law? Not the Ten commandments! For then the command to serve God alone was only for a time and we are now free to do as we please.
​

When you promote that the ten commandments are not for christians what do you promote?

Grace the promise of the NC. I sure do not promote sin as you insist.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

It seems some believe that sin is only that which is written in presently applicable laws. This is not the case. Nowhere in Scripture does freedom from slavery of the law equate to sin. That's a baseless and ridiculous claim. Why do you insist that the old covenant is the defining authority on sin for all when Scripture doesn't say so?

Acts 15 says that the law is an unbearable burden, yet Christ promises us one which is light and easy. Therefore it cannot be that we must bear the law.

 

[Elder 111]

It seems some believe that sin is only that which is written in presently applicable laws. This is not the case. Nowhere in Scripture does freedom from slavery of the law equate to sin. That's a baseless and ridiculous claim. Why do you insist that the old covenant is the defining authority on sin for all when Scripture doesn't say so?

Acts 15 says that the law is an unbearable burden, yet Christ promises us one which is light and easy. Therefore it cannot be that we must bear the law.

The law in Acts 15 is not the ten commandments and John defines sin as the transgression or the breaking of the law. No law no sin! Nothing to transgress!

 

[BornAgainBrian]

The law in Acts 15 is not the ten commandments and John defines sin as the transgression or the breaking of the law. No law no sin! Nothing to transgress!

This doesn't do anything to prove the precepts of a specific covenant defining all sin, as you would have.

 

[listed]

The law in Acts 15 is not the ten commandments and John defines sin as the transgression or the breaking of the law. No law no sin! Nothing to transgress!

Then are the Apostles really teaching and promoting lies? I do not think you can make up your mind which direction you are going in your circle.

 

[Sophrosyne]

This doesn't do anything to prove the precepts of a specific covenant defining all sin, as you would have.

It also says nobody sinned until Moses time too.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

It also says nobody sinned until Moses time too.

Equating sin with precepts given to Moses is a mistake.

 

[Elder 111]

Equating sin with precepts given to Moses is a mistake.

The precepts were around before Moses.

 

[maco]

The precepts were around before Moses.

Amen!

 

[BornAgainBrian]

The precepts were around before Moses.

And do you have proof that the precepts specifically given to the Israelites are both universally applicable and written before Moses?

 

[Elder 111]

And do you have proof that the precepts specifically given to the Israelites are both universally applicable and written before Moses?

Nothing was written until Moses. So to make a judgement just because it was not written would not be wise would it be now? Because Adam was not written about until Moses does that mean that he did not exist until then?
But we have this and others that show completely that God's laws were known and kept. Gen 26: Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Nothing was written until Moses. So to make a judgement just because it was not written would not be wise would it be now? Because Adam was not written about until Moses does that mean that he did not exist until then?
But we have this and others that show completely that God's laws were known and kept. Gen 26: Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Nothing here indicates this was the commandments or laws given to Moses.

 

[listed]

And do you have proof that the precepts specifically given to the Israelites are both universally applicable and written before Moses?

So far they will not or can not produce such evidence. It has been several years that I know of. They need to come out with this secret they must seem to only reveal to those they have trapped (people having become insiders).

 

[listed]

Nothing was written until Moses. So to make a judgement just because it was not written would not be wise would it be now? Because Adam was not written about until Moses does that mean that he did not exist until then?
But we have this and others that show completely that God's laws were known and kept. Gen 26: Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

While Moses clearly says the law was not given to anyone prior to Sinai. You have an irreconcilable problem.

 

[listed]

The precepts were around before Moses.

Which ones? There is no record of Sabbath prior to Sinai. Moses says 1 had the law prior to then. Moses says clearly it affects Israel only.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Nothing was written until Moses. So to make a judgement just because it was not written would not be wise would it be now? Because Adam was not written about until Moses does that mean that he did not exist until then?
But we have this and others that show completely that God's laws were known and kept. Gen 26: Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Just because the words "commandments", statutes, and laws are used here is no proof of WHAT those were. The onus of proof is on you to prove that the 10 commandments were THOSE listed and so far you are arguing from silence.

So far you reject the absolute proof written of Moses accepting the Law from God that is written in an undeniable fashion such that it screams that the 10 commandments never existed prior to the inception of them upon stone tablets. If people were already keeping the 10 why would they need to be written on stone and given to them, all God would have to do is tell them to CONTINUE on as commanded but instead we see God lay out a whole mess of rules AND when a man was caught picking up sticks on the Sabbath even Moses was clueless what to do about it till he asked God, and the found out that it is death to break the Sabbath day. Did God's commandments suddenly change? Why is it that there is no death for breaking the Sabbath prior to Moses and some here equate after the cross there is no death for breaking the Sabbath when in fact both of these statement conclude there is a change in the Sabbath Law itself. The only thing that makes logical sense is that the Sabbath commandment was not a law prior to Moses and that either Jesus actions abolished the Law itself or it still exists.
A law is worthless if there is no consequence for breaking it.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Nothing here indicates this was the commandments or laws given to Moses.

nothing but prestidigitating leporidae involved for sure

 

[listed]

nothing but prestidigitating leporidae involved for sure

Awesome expression. I agree.