An attempt to eliminate God.

[VictorC]

You are relating my use of the word only to types and shadows. It goes much farther.

Please, enlighten us!

 

[maco]

That's a big lie maco. The scriptures ask; What's the purpose of the law?.... What is the answer maco? Read it;

Gal 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

So, the scriptures say that the law serve because of sin until Jesus should come.
Another big lie maco. After His annointing Jesus served as more than priests who also had authority to work on the sabbath. Jesus was found defending His works on the sabbath rather than teaching how to honor the sabbath.[/SIZE]

Necessary works on the Sabbath was always allowed.

 

[listed]

Please, enlighten us!

What hides under the cover of darkness? Good stuff? hardly. Why? it does not want to be discovered and needs to hide. The truth plays in the full sun. I can not say more without getting into trouble.

 

[listed]

Necessary works on the Sabbath was always allowed.

More self justifying. Electricity is not necessary. It is convenient. You buy it on the Sabbath which is contrary to the Scripture. This makes and requires another to work you on the sabbath (also against the Scripture) for which you condemn.

 

[maco]

More self justifying. Electricity is not necessary. It is convenient. You buy it on the Sabbath which is contrary to the Scripture. This makes and requires another to work you on the sabbath (also against the Scripture) for which you condemn.

Take some time and read the teachings of Jesus.

 

[listed]

Take some time and read the teachings of Jesus.

How does that relate to the thread or even what I said? Jesus did not teach the law nor did He require obligation to the law. John 1:17 and 15:10 have both been referenced and quoted.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Take some time and read the teachings of Jesus.

Herein lies part of the problem in that we do read the teachings of Jesus.... AND don't stop with them continuing on with all the other New Testament authors and we don't pit their words against themselves and each other to support a position that basically cannot be logically defended by scripture.

 

[listed]

Herein lies part of the problem in that we do read the teachings of Jesus.... AND don't stop with them continuing on with all the other New Testament authors and we don't pit their words against themselves and each other to support a position that basically cannot be logically defended by scripture.

 

[maco]

Herein lies part of the problem in that we do read the teachings of Jesus.... AND don't stop with them continuing on with all the other New Testament authors and we don't pit their words against themselves and each other to support a position that basically cannot be logically defended by scripture.

So you believe the Apostles taught something different than Jesus?

 

[listed]

So you believe the Apostles taught something different than Jesus?

I do not. But you seem to refuse to believe what the Apostles taught.

 

[Elder 111]

That's a big lie maco. The scriptures ask; What's the purpose of the law?.... What is the answer maco? Read it;

Gal 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

So, the scriptures say that the law serve because of sin until Jesus should come.
Another big lie maco. After His annointing Jesus served as more than priests who also had authority to work on the sabbath. Jesus was found defending His works on the sabbath rather than teaching how to honor the sabbath.[/size]

Which law? Not the Ten commandments! For then the command to serve God alone was only for a time and we are now free to do as we please.

 

[maco]

I do not. But you seem to refuse to believe what the Apostles taught.

You seen to not understand what the Apostles taught. But that's okay, some of the things Paul taught are hard to understand. Keep studying and you'll get it eventually.

 

[listed]

You seen to not understand what the Apostles taught. But that's okay, some of the things Paul taught are hard to understand. Keep studying and you'll get it eventually.

Why the Apostles sure taught obligation to the law. Maybe that is why they backed it up with statements like - But now we are delivered from the law.

 

[VictorC]

Which law? Not the Ten commandments! For then the command to serve God alone was only for a time and we are now free to do as we please.

You already know this isn't a true claim, as the only covenant from Mount Sinai discussed in Galatians is the Ten Commandments + the Book of the Law. It specifically addresses the Ten Commandments. But, you remain dedicated to confusion and denial, because that's what Ellen White demanded of you, and Dr. Raymond Cottrell documents:

Ellen White's difinition of the Law mentioned in Galatians 3:24, which says "The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ."

In 1856 Ellen White identified that law as the ceremonial law system of ancient times, and specifically not the Ten Commandments.
White, Letter to E. J. Waggoner and A. T. Jones (Letter 37, 2-18-1887). J. H. Waggoner, The Law of God, an Examination of the Testimony of Both Testaments, Rochester, N.Y., The Advent Review Office, 1854, pp. 70, 108. In 1856 James and Ellen White and others met for two days in Battle Creek, Michigan, and decided that Waggoner was wrong in identifying the law in Galatians as the Ten Commandments. James White withdrew the book from circulation.

In 1883 she again identified that "law" as "the obsolete ceremonies of Judaism."
White, Sketches from the Life of Paul, pp. 188-192.

In 1896 she wrote: "In this Scripture, the Holy Spirit through the apostle is speaking especially of the moral law."
Selected Messages, Book 1, p. 234.

In 1900 she wrote: "I am asked concerning the law in Galatians. ... I answer: both the ceremonial and moral code of Ten Commandments."
Selected Messages, Book 1, p. 233.

In 1911 she again identified the law in Galatians as exclusively "the obsolete ceremonies of Judaism."
Acts of the Apostles, pp. 383-388.​

If you say Galatians doesn't address the Ten Commandments (which you did), you contradict Ellen White.
If you truthfully concede that yes, Galatians does address the Ten Commandments, you again contradict Ellen White.
That's because Ellen White contradicts Ellen White.

 

[Sophrosyne]

You already know this isn't a true claim, as the only covenant from Mount Sinai discussed in Galatians is the Ten Commandments + the Book of the Law. It specifically addresses the Ten Commandments. But, you remain dedicated to confusion and denial, because that's what Ellen White demanded of you, and Dr. Raymond Cottrell documents:

Ellen White's difinition of the Law mentioned in Galatians 3:24, which says "The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ."

In 1856 Ellen White identified that law as the ceremonial law system of ancient times, and specifically not the Ten Commandments.
White, Letter to E. J. Waggoner and A. T. Jones (Letter 37, 2-18-1887). J. H. Waggoner, The Law of God, an Examination of the Testimony of Both Testaments, Rochester, N.Y., The Advent Review Office, 1854, pp. 70, 108. In 1856 James and Ellen White and others met for two days in Battle Creek, Michigan, and decided that Waggoner was wrong in identifying the law in Galatians as the Ten Commandments. James White withdrew the book from circulation.

In 1883 she again identified that "law" as "the obsolete ceremonies of Judaism."
White, Sketches from the Life of Paul, pp. 188-192.

In 1896 she wrote: "In this Scripture, the Holy Spirit through the apostle is speaking especially of the moral law."
Selected Messages, Book 1, p. 234.

In 1900 she wrote: "I am asked concerning the law in Galatians. ... I answer: both the ceremonial and moral code of Ten Commandments."
Selected Messages, Book 1, p. 233.

In 1911 she again identified the law in Galatians as exclusively "the obsolete ceremonies of Judaism."
Acts of the Apostles, pp. 383-388.​

If you say Galatians doesn't address the Ten Commandments (which you did), you contradict Ellen White.
If you truthfully concede that yes, Galatians does address the Ten Commandments, you again contradict Ellen White.
That's because Ellen White contradicts Ellen White.

I would have a hard time believing someone who is held in high esteem for doctrine that changes their mind in this fashion. How can one know if she started believing right then went wrong or the opposite? I've found Christians that believe right then after reading garbage theology around them and listening to others and peer pressure they start to believe junk and I've met Christians who believe wrong but study and over the years their beliefs line up correct with the Bible more and more.

I think Ellen's problem is being surrounded by people who at first believe Jesus is going to show up in 1844 and falling for it hook line and sinker then ego steps in such to try and explain themselves as to not be seen in error. I've found that people in error with egos tend to compound error instead of admitting it.

 

[VictorC]

I would have a hard time believing someone who is held in high esteem for doctrine that changes their mind in this fashion. How can one know if she started believing right then went wrong or the opposite? I've found Christians that believe right then after reading garbage theology around them and listening to others and peer pressure they start to believe junk and I've met Christians who believe wrong but study and over the years their beliefs line up correct with the Bible more and more.

I think Ellen's problem is being surrounded by people who at first believe Jesus is going to show up in 1844 and falling for it hook line and sinker then ego steps in such to try and explain themselves as to not be seen in error. I've found that people in error with egos tend to compound error instead of admitting it.

The history of the Advent movement is one rife with colorful results, including the genesis of the Jehovah's Witnesses and various lesser-known cults. After the failure of the predictive model William Miller conjured passed the time determined, Miller himself recanted and called his model an error. Fully 2/3 of the Advent movement disbanded in 1845 and either returned to their former fellowships or dispaired to the point they left Christianity altogether.

Ellen White called the group she belonged to the "Little Flock", which was a portion of the remaining 1/3 that splintered into JW's and the like. That's how she addresses some of her writings in the early years the seventh-day Adventist church formed from the Advent movement - which the founder of said movement concluded to be a horrible mistake.

 

[The Fundamentalist]

The Law is slavery, there is no freedom to those who are under its yoke.

The Ten Commandments are not slavery, even from the very first words in them:

Exodus 20:2 KJB - I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
​

Sin, being transgression of the Law [1 John 3:4] is the bondage:

John 8:34 KJB - Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Acts 8:23 KJB - For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
​

The Ten Commandments of God are Perfect Liberty/Freedom:

Psalms 119:44 KJB - So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.

Psalms 119:45 KJB - And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.

The same word for "liberty" is used again here:

Psalms 119:96 KJB - I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.​

James understood these texts:

James 1:25 KJB - But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2:12 KJB - So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
​

Peter understood the same texts:

2 Peter 2:19 KJB - While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
​

Paul understood those texts:

Romans 6:16 KJB - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
​

When Jesus Christ proclaimed "liberty", walking in the Spirit, He preached the fullness of the Ten Commandments and lived them:

Isaiah 42:21 KJB - The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 61:1 KJB - The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Luke 4:18 KJB - The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

2 corinthians 3:13 KJB - Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Romans 8:21 KJB - Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
​

Christ Jesus came to set us free from sin.

 

[listed]

Which law? Not the Ten commandments! For then the command to serve God alone was only for a time and we are now free to do as we please.

You still insist we promote sin as a right. Why?

 

[The Fundamentalist]

You still insist we promote sin as a right. Why?

Listed, please listen a moment, for what you are presently and actually promoting is what Satan himself promoted in Heaven, which is 'self-righteousness', or a self-defined law apart from the Ten Commandments of God, which is His Law, which is Righteousness [Psalms 119:142].

It is not so much that you say that you promote sin, it is precisely because you say you do not, all the while you are actually promoting the transgressing of the 4th Commandment [either of yourself or for others], after Light has come to you on it, in the living/doing.

Listed, you presently are deceived into believing that to relegate the 4th Commandment to nothingness and of no little import, and not to be obeyed, is not actually sin, that it is no transgression.

So, Listed, without any animosity to you, but charity, you are saying to obey God, which is good, yet all the while not actually doing it in that one point of the 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God. That is the deception that we are trying to make you aware of. That is the one point that needs to change, to come into more harmony with the entire purpose of the Everlasting Gospel.

 

[listed]

The Ten Commandments are not slavery, even from the very first words in them:

Exodus 20:2 KJB - I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
​

Sin, being transgression of the Law [1 John 3:4] is the bondage:

John 8:34 KJB - Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Acts 8:23 KJB - For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
​

The Ten Commandments of God are Perfect Liberty/Freedom:

Psalms 119:44 KJB - So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.

Psalms 119:45 KJB - And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.

The same word for "liberty" is used again here:

Psalms 119:96 KJB - I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.​

James understood these texts:

James 1:25 KJB - But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2:12 KJB - So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
​

Peter understood the same texts:

2 Peter 2:19 KJB - While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
​

Paul understood those texts:

Romans 6:16 KJB - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
​

When Jesus Christ proclaimed "liberty", walking in the Spirit, He preached the fullness of the Ten Commandments and lived them:

Isaiah 42:21 KJB - The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 61:1 KJB - The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Luke 4:18 KJB - The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

2 corinthians 3:13 KJB - Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Romans 8:21 KJB - Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
​

Christ Jesus came to set us free from sin.

There is not a single passage in your post calling the law liberty.