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Common Core promoting Islam!!!!

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Bedford

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This is the point. It wasn't us who began the deflection of the issue by attacking the source.

I see. You refute attacking the source (a source who regularly publishes stuff just like the OP), by inserting Sharpton and Jackson.


Yet you offered nothing about Sharpton and Jackson other than inserting their name into the thread!

Do you think you won the argument?
 
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EdwinWillers

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This is the point. It wasn't us who began the deflection of the issue by attacking the source.
Precisely.

...and here we are, distracted into defending accusations of tu-quoque by those leveling the accusation who themselves deflected the topic originally - for doing what they did originally (which maybe we shouldn't have perpetuated, but...)

tu-quoque^2 :)
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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No, what we are actually discussing is Common Core promoting Islam.

Since Common Core isn't promoting Islam, why are we having this discussion at all?

Oh, that's right, because Lying Todd Starnes dishonestly tried connect this issue to a boogie man for his readers and listeners.
 
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TLK Valentine

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It is funny, isn't it? Now that we've established that Starnes is indeed lying and that Common Core is not endorsing Islam, that's pretty much it for the thread.
 
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Joykins

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We have the evidence of them promoting Islam,

Well, you have the evidence of them using the life of Mohammed as the factual subject of vocabulary worksheets and really nothing else. The excerpts at the links do not look like promotional materials to me.

I went to Christian school and I had to study Islam well enough to know the basic beliefs etc. This is really no different. There is a difference between religious history in a vocabulary lesson and actual proselytization, and from what I can tell, Common Core hasn't been effective long enough to get rid of that kind of ignorance.
 
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Joykins

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While I'm not gonna hop on the outrage bandwagon, I think some of the more conservative commenters here have a point buried under all the words.

It has been my experience that larger and more diverse school districts tend to see the rule of separation of church and state in terms of Christianity. Thus, they tend to be careful--and sometimes overly restrictive--about expressions of Christianity and more lenient about expressions of other religions. Thus, these vocabulary worksheets giving a Muslim context for some English words and the lack of vocabulary worksheets giving a Christian context for some English words.

I doubt there is any intent to proselytize here; just school administrators being incompetent again and not thinking through their assumptions.


They may also assume (perhaps wrongly) that students are more familiar with Christian (and possibly Jewish) concepts.
 
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Sistrin

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Since Common Core isn't promoting Islam, why are we having this discussion at all?

Oh, that's right, because Lying Todd Starnes dishonestly tried connect this issue to a boogie man for his readers and listeners.

Unless I just missed it you have offered nothing to even suggest Starnes lied about any of this other to say he is Christian and in your opinion is a liar.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Unless I just missed it you have offered nothing to even suggest Starnes lied about any of this other to say he is Christian and in your opinion is a liar.

All that had to be offered were the facts -- the article cannot be true because Common Core never wrote the assignment in question nor determines this level of content.

As this was Garfield's OP, and his sincerity cannot be questioned by the FOUR!!!! exclamation points in the title, that leaves Starnes.

Now, if you want to claim that Starnes wasn't deliberately lying, but rather blitheringly wrong, I know I'd be willing to entertain the possibility...
 
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USincognito

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Unless I just missed it you have offered nothing to even suggest Starnes lied about any of this other to say he is Christian and in your opinion is a liar.

There's no evidence connecting the vocabulary workbook to Common Core. Lying Todd claims that in the title and body of his propaganda piece, but I have seen zero evidence supporting that assertion. Here's a link to the Common Core standards for language arts. From what I can see the connection appears to exist only in his fat head.
English Language Arts Standards » Language » Grade 11-12 | Common Core State Standards Initiative

Evidence?

I have shown him to be a liar. Here's just one example.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7770733-4/#post64066095
 
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GarfieldJL

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There's no evidence connecting the vocabulary workbook to Common Core. Lying Todd claims that in the title and body of his propaganda piece, but I have seen zero evidence supporting that assertion. Here's a link to the Common Core standards for language arts. From what I can see the connection appears to exist only in his fat head.
English Language Arts Standards » Language » Grade 11-12 | Common Core State Standards Initiative

Evidence?

I have shown him to be a liar. Here's just one example.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7770733-4/#post64066095
Except your source doesn't really give us much of anything to look at to ascertain these standards are met (among other things)...

1. We know that the lessons that Todd Starnes is reporting on exists.
2. This isn't an isolated incident.

I'm going to use a source that is trying to defend Common Core, that illustrates my point Lies, damned lies, and the Common Core | The Thomas B. Fordham Institute

While it tries to claim that the examples given are not the result of common core, I'm guessing they didn't think of what they would essentially be arguing in the process. If we go with the source above that is claiming that Common Core isn't to blame for these examples of attempts to advance political agendas, then are they arguing the Academic Community is trying to advance a political agenda? Are they saying that the Academic Community has ceased being interested in education and now are more interested in being political activists?

USincognito, unless you're arguing that the documents Mr. Starnes is referencing in his article are forgeries (which thus far you haven't proved), you really don't have grounds to say he's lieing.

You're saying common core isn't responsible for what Mr. Starnes is reporting on, okay then who is responsible? Are you suggesting that the academic community has a serious bias problem where they are skewed towards the left?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Except your source doesn't really give us much of anything to look at to ascertain these standards are met (among other things)...

1. We know that the lessons that Todd Starnes is reporting on exists.
2. This isn't an isolated incident.

3. The content of the lessons has nothing to do with Common Core.

While it tries to claim that the examples given are not the result of common core, I'm guessing they didn't think of what they would essentially be arguing in the process. If we go with the source above that is claiming that Common Core isn't to blame for these examples of attempts to advance political agendas, then are they arguing the Academic Community is trying to advance a political agenda?

If anyone's trying to advance a political agenda, it's whatever publishers printed up those lessons.

Are they saying that the Academic Community has ceased being interested in education and now are more interested in being political activists?

Nope -- more like you (and probably Starnes as well) are trying to concoct an academic conspiracy where it's more of a corporate one.

Many schools order their lesson materials from publishers; did you know that?

USincognito, unless you're arguing that the documents Mr. Starnes is referencing in his article are forgeries (which thus far you haven't proved), you really don't have grounds to say he's lieing.

Did Starnes blame Common Core for the political agenda? As that is impossible, Starnes is either lying or ignorant.

You're saying common core isn't responsible for what Mr. Starnes is reporting on, okay then who is responsible? Are you suggesting that the academic community has a serious bias problem where they are skewed towards the left?

Nope -- why are you saying it?
 
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gnomon

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Apparently Common Core vocab lesson plans discuss Muhammad in a positive light, while forbidding the discussion of other religions.

High School: Islamic vocabulary lesson part of Common Core standards | Fox News

Another source:
High school Common Core lesson promotes Muhammad, Islamic faith - Spokane Conservative | Examiner.com

I will call you out.

Neither of the links you provided state that the Common Core is promoting Islam.

That simple.

I suggest that if you want to start a thread claiming that the common core is promoting Islam, or any other religion, than you state factual evidence regarding such.

Both the linked threads only suggest basic educational material regarding Islam.

It would be unfortunate if you are perpetuating a lie to further your own agenda in the common core. What should the common core perpetuate in your opinion? Christianity?
 
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TLK Valentine

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I will call you out.

Neither of the links you provided state that the Common Core is promoting Islam.

That simple.

I suggest that if you want to start a thread claiming that the common core is promoting Islam, or any other religion, than you state factual evidence regarding such.

Both the linked threads only suggest basic educational material regarding Islam.

It would be unfortunate if you are perpetuating a lie to further your own agenda in the common core. What should the common core perpetuate in your opinion? Christianity?

It's sad, really -- and ultimately counterproductive.

There are plenty of legitimate problems with Common Core and how it's implemented; why do it's opponents need to ruin their credibility by making up fake problems?
 
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GarfieldJL

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3. The content of the lessons has nothing to do with Common Core.

So you're saying the academic community has a bias problem and is trying to promote a political agenda?

If anyone's trying to advance a political agenda, it's whatever publishers printed up those lessons.

If that were the case, there wouldn't have been that uproar over the Texas Board of Education some months ago?

It should also be noted that a publisher is usually not the author of a textbook... The authors of textbooks are usually a bunch of academics, and it is compiled by an editor (who may or may not work for the publisher), the publishing company prints the actual hardcopies and the amount of input they have can vary...

Look some schools use custom editions of textbooks, and while that can mean fewer Used versions of a book can be bought by students, it also adds to the cost for the publisher to produce. It would cost a publisher far less money to produce the regular edition of a book, but they have to cater to their customers (like universities).

Nope -- more like you (and probably Starnes as well) are trying to concoct an academic conspiracy where it's more of a corporate one.

  1. I never said it was a conspiracy, I'm saying it's the result of bias that academics don't even realize they have.
  2. When it comes to textbooks, publishers have to cater to their customers (the schools, state education boards, universities, etc.).
  3. The reasons why textbooks tend to be so expensive have to do with limited production and royalties to various authors/universities, etc., not just the publisher trying to make money.
  4. It is the education boards, professors, departments of universities, etc. that select the books to be used, the publishers have to produce a product to meet the approval of their customers...
Many schools order their lesson materials from publishers; did you know that?

Considering the fact I've worked at a bookstore that caters to students at a University, I'm well aware of the fact that a school orders lesson materials from publishers. I'm also aware of the fact that the academic community, boards of education, etc. have a lot more influence over what's in those lesson materials than you were aware of...

Did Starnes blame Common Core for the political agenda? As that is impossible, Starnes is either lying or ignorant.

Actually, his conclusions are far more plausible than your blaming the publishers.

For starters, who do you think writes the stuff for the publishers to include in textbooks? -- Answer: Academics

Second, the publishers have to compete with each other, and books get chosen from a selection offered by different publishers.

Third, when you've worked in a bookstore that's catered to students and specifically worked with helping students regarding textbooks, you develop some working knowledge about how textbooks get selected for use at a school.

Nope -- why are you saying it?

Cause your "corporate conspiracy" argument is not plausible...
 
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GarfieldJL

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I'm starting to think you are doing that on purpose.

I am actually just reacting to comments made by USincognito and TLK Valentine.

Look there are only certain groups that really have power to set curriculum in classrooms, publishers aren't exactly high on that list.

We're looking at the decision makers on Common Core, State Boards of Education (ranked from biggest state by population to smallest), universities, then individual school districts.

If the people setting the common core standards aren't to blame, it's not exactly a long list to figure out who made the decision to use that material. Additionally, academics are the ones that actually write the textbooks.
 
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GarfieldJL

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By saying that they are saying things that AREN'T saying? Don't you think would be a little bit annoying if someone did that to you and made a habit of doing it?

I'm saying they don't really have that many plausible options as to who are behind these decisions left, if the Common Core policy makers aren't responsible.

Contrary to what TLK Valentine said earlier, the publishers actually have to cater to various boards (like State Boards of Education). If we were dealing with regular novels, he'd have a point, but there is a fairly limited customer base when it comes to text books.
 
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