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US swaps 5 Gitmo prisoners for US soldiers release, but many questions remain

katautumn

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Guess we'll see. My own view is that even accused deserters should be able to rely on their government to try to get them home, even if it means return to a trial and punishment.

Why would deserters with a known history of bashing their country want to rely on their government? I'm guessing Bergdahl didn't want to be found until it suited his, and his father's, political activism interests. That's why our government has spent the past five years launching deadly search campaigns and turning up nothing. At least not until President Obama was willing to negotiate terrorists and release five of the most potentially dangerous detainees we were holding at Gitmo. How convenient! That falls right into father Bergdahl's plans!
 
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And, judging by his famous now-deleted post, freeing ALL gitmo prisoners.

I missed the part where this wish came true.


Let us not forget that this was a tweet, and because it was a tweet that means that it is nothing but a feel-good thought but hollow because there is not action.

#wishfulthoughts
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I missed the part where this wish came true.

No one said it was. It was postulated that it was a part of the father's plan. That seems to be the case.

Let us not forget that this was a tweet, and because it was a tweet that means that it is nothing but a feel-good thought but hollow because there is not action.

#wishfulthoughts

But there WAS action, and that's why the tweet was deleted. Nice dodge though.
 
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It was a joke in the thread about it, but now it's just dumb that it's being brought into actual discussions.

How long has the forum been subjected to 'asked and answered'?

I believe bringing the soldiers father into the discussion as if he is controlling what is happening in Gitmo......is dumb.


Oh, and :wave:
 
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PreachersWife2004

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How long has the forum been subjected to 'asked and answered'?

I believe bringing the soldiers father into the discussion as if he is controlling what is happening in Gitmo......is dumb.


Oh, and :wave:

Then you missed the point entirely. Blame Obama, I guess. :doh:
 
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cow451

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Sistrin

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Republican congress members high-five each other after blocking a military pay raise, then arrest the mother of a veteran when she complains.

The following quotes are from the source story written by Adalia Woodbury. She begins with this gem, quote:

When Mitt Romney accepted the Republican’s nomination for President, he couldn’t find room in his speech to thank the troops.

This is partisan crap, followed by:

For the Meachams, there isn’t a day that passes without worries for their son’s safety and without an awareness of the conditions under which he and other soldiers fight our wars.

Here again is another blatant example of how little the liberal/progressive crowd knows (or bothers to learn) concerning the function and purpose of ground combat units. A combat zone isn't meant to be a vacation spot complete with all the amenities one takes for granted at home. Service in a combat zone with a combat unit is both hard and dirty, thus why soldiers are required to maintain rigid physical conditioning and trained in field hygiene. It is by definition and by its very nature dangerous and formidable. It isn't for the faint of heart or those who join the military to advance some political agenda. It is not uncommon to go for a month or more without a proper bath, to eat cold food from MRE packets, to wear the same underwear for a week, to walk for miles carrying 90 pounds of gear and then sleep, when you can sleep, with a rock for a pillow, and then find yourself suddenly under fire from some number of Taliban...gentlemen. However that is just the way it is, and to gripe about it indicates you probably should have stayed home and done something else.

This is manufactured sympathy on this woman's part, illustrated here with another example of partisan political nonsense:

They understand the primitive conditions under which the troops live and the things that military families go without because Congress is more concerned about the 1% that buys our elections instead of the 1% who defend our freedoms.

This is again a partisan political comment made by a partisan political hack attempting to score points against the opposition. This woman wrote this article in September of 2012. Who controlled the Senate and the Presidency in 2012? Of course that doesn't matter because there is a point to be scored.

Look at the actual bill.

Republicans block bill to expand VA funding

From this link, quote:

But Republicans were concerned about how the bill was paid for: a large chunk of the its funding came from the $1 trillion in federal funds that the government is authorized to spend over the next 10 years to fight terrorism.

Graham was not alone in his concern. American Veterans executive director Stewart Hickey said in a statement that the bill would be "morally irresponsible and fiscally unsound" because of where the funding comes from. They also argue the bill simply aims to do too much.


Republicans block vote on Military Sexual Assault bill

From this link, a segment which illustrates the difference between what the two parties think is most important, quote:

Moran said that if the two Democratic measures were going to be considered now, that it was only fair that the Senate also vote on Kirk’s amendment, which would increase sanctions against Iran to prevent the country from developing nuclear weapons.

In addition this falls under the category of Democratic Sour Grapes, in not getting their way in everything.

Gillibrand's measure would strip the decision to prosecute sexual assault cases away from commanders, but Pentagon leaders oppose that, as do McCaskill and Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.).

McCaskill’s bill is far less controversial because it leaves the current system in place, yet adds some protections for victims.


This hardly qualifies as an example of Republicans not wanting to support the troops.

Republican Senators block military jobs bill

From this link, quote:

Republicans said the spending authorized in the bill violated limits that Congress agreed to last year. Democrats fell two votes shy of the 60-vote majority needed to waive the objection, forcing the legislation back to committee.

This is typical Democratic maneuvering, agree to spending limits and then simply ignore them followed by blaming Republicans for attempting to adhere to the limits Democrats originally agreed to abide by.

In addition, quote:

Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma said the federal government already has six job-training programs for veterans and there is no way to know how well they are working.

...

Democratic officials did not have an estimate for how many veterans would be hired as a result of the legislation.


Because whether the program would do any actual good is not relevant to a bunch of pre-election Democrats looking for good pre-election soundbites.

"Projection" I do not think that word means what you think it means.

You killed my father.
 
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cow451

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This guy (Bergdahl) is a real piece of work.

Stockholm Syndrome claims in 3...2...

It may be worth having him back to study him for psychological reasons to help understand prisoner dynamics. Sounds like he was a head case from the get-go. It would also be worth looking at how he got through basic without being tagged as trouble.
 
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GondwanaLand

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This guy (Bergdahl) is a real piece of work.

Stockholm Syndrome claims in 3...2...
Assuming your source is correct, it looks rather like someone playing along to lower the guards of the folks there.

Indeed, from your source:

The documents show that Bergdahl at one point escaped his captors for five days and was kept, upon his re-capture, in a metal cage, like an animal.

But in any case if we want to call him a "real piece of work" and having "stockholm syndrome", well, we can look to, say, John McCain........
 
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Sistrin

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But in any case if we want to call him a "real piece of work" and having "stockholm syndrome", well, we can look to, say, John McCain........

No, you can't. McCain was shot down while flying combat missions against the enemy, he nearly died in captivity and never broke or cooperated with his North Vietnamese captors. He certainly never praised them or the communist system in writings prior to flying into combat. These two situations do not equate at all.
 
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GondwanaLand

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No, you can't. McCain was shot down while flying combat missions against the enemy, he nearly died in captivity and never broke or cooperated with his North Vietnamese captors. He certainly never praised them or the communist system in writings prior to flying into combat. These two situations do not equate at all.
I didn't say anything about McCain's capture, etc.. I was referring to when he did indeed break (unlike your assertion), and he started breaking just days (two days IIRC) after his capture (by his own admission in his memoir) and provided them his ship's name, squadron's name, and attack's intended target; later on he also gave a propaganda statement, "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life, thanks to the doctors.".

So please, don't try to insult my intelligence with your false assertions.
 
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Sistrin

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<staff edit> there is no legitimate comparison to be made between the experiences of Bergdahl and John McCain. My guess is you saw the CNN interview conducted by Candy Crowley during which she attempted to make the same disingenuous comparison and are just parroting that here. But both instances comprise an incredibly weak straw man argument made in an attempt to provide cover for Obama and a complete lack of understanding and appreciation for those who served with honor in the US Military as opposed to those who didn't.

I didn't say anything about McCain's capture, etc..

So? You are attempting to draw a comparison between someone who deserted his post in dereliction of duty and someone who was actually taken prisoner by the enemy while performing his duty. But typically such people are the only military service members many on the left ever express any admiration for, those who betray their duty or their comrades in arms, or sympathize with the enemy while denouncing their service and country. Thus why John Kerry could rise to prominence after throwing someone else's medals over the White House fence.

I was referring to when he did indeed break (unlike your assertion), and he started breaking just days (two days IIRC) after his capture (by his own admission in his memoir) and provided them his ship's name, squadron's name, and attack's intended target...

McCain broke while ejecting from his aircraft:

"I pulled the ejection handle, and was knocked unconscious by the force of the ejection&#8212;the air speed was about 500 knots. I didn't realize it at the moment, but I had broken my right leg around the knee, my right arm in three places, and my left arm."

"When they had most of my clothes off, I felt a twinge in my right knee. I sat up and looked at it, and my right foot was resting next to my left knee, just in a 90-degree position. I said, "My God--my leg!" That seemed to enrage them &#8212;I don't know why. One of them slammed a rifle butt down on my shoulder, and smashed it pretty badly. Another stuck a bayonet in my foot.

According to McCain's account he was in and out of consciousness for three to four days subsequent to being taken prisoner. He was only taken to the hospital when the North Vietnamese discovered his father was an admiral. He stated his hospital treatment almost killed him.

Your assertion he broke within two days is based on what? Something you read on Mother Jones?

Source for quotes: John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account - US News

Bergdhal voluntarily walked away from his post looking to join the Taliban. McCain voluntarily strapped into his aircraft to conduct combat operations against the enemy and was shot down. To compare these to is an insult not only to McCain but to all who served honorably.

McCain also refused early release from captivity, insisting those who had been taken prisoner prior to him be released first. Quote:

I went back to him three nights later. He asked again, "Do you want to go home?" I told him "No." He wanted to know why, and I told him the reason. I said that Alvarez [first American captured] should go first, then enlisted men and that kind of stuff.

We went through this routine and still I told him "No." Three nights later we went through it all over again. On the morning of the Fourth of July, 1968, which happened to be the same day that my father took over as commander in chief of U. S. Forces in the Pacific, I was led into another quiz room.

"The Rabbit" and "The Cat" were sitting there. I walked in and sat down, and "The Rabbit" said, "Our senior wants to know your final answer."

"My final answer is the same. It's 'No.' "


Even Obama acknowledged McCain's service as honorable, quote:

"John McCain has worn the uniform of our country with bravery and distinction, and for that we owe him our gratitude and respect..."

But your attempt to denigrate McCain's service by comparing him to Bergdahl isn't new, members of the left have been doing that for years. Quote:

Political scientist John Mueller, a military affairs expert at Ohio State University, is more blunt. "Exactly how much he learned about national policy while sitting in a prison in Hanoi is terribly limited," he says of McCain. Furthermore, he says, the "grueling experience &#8230; might lead to questions about how healthy he is. The Hanoi Hilton logically could be expected to decrease your life expectancy."

Source: Military past on center stage in McCain run | wtsp.com

...later on he also gave a propaganda statement, "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life, thanks to the doctors.".

You post this with absolutely no context. How do you think you would have held up to years of imprisonment at the hands of brutal keepers such as the North Vietnamese were? <staff edit> Quote:

When I said that, the guards, who were all in the room&#8212;about 10 of them&#8212;really laid into me. They bounced me from pillar to post, kicking and laughing and scratching. After a few hours of that, ropes were put on me and I sat that night bound with ropes. Then I was taken to a small room. For punishment they would almost always take you to another room where you didn't have a mosquito net or a bed or any clothes. For the next four days, I was beaten every two to three hours by different guards. My left arm was broken again and my ribs were cracked.

They wanted a statement saying that I was sorry for the crimes that I had committed against North Vietnamese people and that I was grateful for the treatment that I had received from them. This was the paradox&#8212;so many guys were so mistreated to get them to say they were grateful. But this is the Communist way.

I held out for four days. Finally, I reached the lowest point of my 5½ years in North Vietnam. I was at the point of suicide, because I saw that I was reaching the end of my rope.


Source: John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account - US News

It has been reported Bergdahl was kept in a cage for a few days, a story the left is pouncing on to cry about how mistreated he was and to attempt to bolster the original claim made by Obama that Bergdahl was a hero. But Bergdahl did not suffer as McCain did, nor did McCain play soccer with his captors or engage in live fire exercises with them using their weapons. McCain signed a statement under severs duress.

<staff edit> McCain ran for President as a Republican against Obama and had the audacity to chose a woman for his running mate. Therefore he is bad, and his service, to include five and a half years in captivity at the hands of Communist, is only worthy of an asinine comparison meant to provide cover for a truly depraved decision made by Obama.

So please, don't try to insult my intelligence with your false assertions.

<Staff edit>
 
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<staff edit> there is no legitimate comparison to be made between the experiences of Bergdahl and John McCain. My guess is you saw the CNN interview conducted by Candy Crowley during which she attempted to make the same disingenuous comparison and are just parroting that here. But both instances comprise an incredibly weak straw man argument made in an attempt to provide cover for Obama and a complete lack of understanding and appreciation for those who served with honor in the US Military as opposed to those who didn't.

I didn't say anything about McCain's capture, etc..

So? You are attempting to draw a comparison between someone who deserted his post in dereliction of duty and someone who was actually taken prisoner by the enemy while performing his duty. But typically such people are the only military service members many on the left ever express any admiration for, those who betray their duty or their comrades in arms, or sympathize with the enemy while denouncing their service and country. Thus why John Kerry could rise to prominence after throwing someone else's medals over the White House fence.

I was referring to when he did indeed break (unlike your assertion), and he started breaking just days (two days IIRC) after his capture (by his own admission in his memoir) and provided them his ship's name, squadron's name, and attack's intended target...

McCain broke while ejecting from his aircraft:

"I pulled the ejection handle, and was knocked unconscious by the force of the ejection&#8212;the air speed was about 500 knots. I didn't realize it at the moment, but I had broken my right leg around the knee, my right arm in three places, and my left arm."

"When they had most of my clothes off, I felt a twinge in my right knee. I sat up and looked at it, and my right foot was resting next to my left knee, just in a 90-degree position. I said, "My God--my leg!" That seemed to enrage them &#8212;I don't know why. One of them slammed a rifle butt down on my shoulder, and smashed it pretty badly. Another stuck a bayonet in my foot.

According to McCain's account he was in and out of consciousness for three to four days subsequent to being taken prisoner. He was only taken to the hospital when the North Vietnamese discovered his father was an admiral. He stated his hospital treatment almost killed him.

Your assertion he broke within two days is based on what? Something you read on Mother Jones?

Source for quotes: John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account - US News

Bergdhal voluntarily walked away from his post looking to join the Taliban. McCain voluntarily strapped into his aircraft to conduct combat operations against the enemy and was shot down. To compare these to is an insult not only to McCain but to all who served honorably.

McCain also refused early release from captivity, insisting those who had been taken prisoner prior to him be released first. Quote:

I went back to him three nights later. He asked again, "Do you want to go home?" I told him "No." He wanted to know why, and I told him the reason. I said that Alvarez [first American captured] should go first, then enlisted men and that kind of stuff.

We went through this routine and still I told him "No." Three nights later we went through it all over again. On the morning of the Fourth of July, 1968, which happened to be the same day that my father took over as commander in chief of U. S. Forces in the Pacific, I was led into another quiz room.

"The Rabbit" and "The Cat" were sitting there. I walked in and sat down, and "The Rabbit" said, "Our senior wants to know your final answer."

"My final answer is the same. It's 'No.' "


Even Obama acknowledged McCain's service as honorable, quote:

"John McCain has worn the uniform of our country with bravery and distinction, and for that we owe him our gratitude and respect..."

But your attempt to denigrate McCain's service by comparing him to Bergdahl isn't new, members of the left have been doing that for years. Quote:

Political scientist John Mueller, a military affairs expert at Ohio State University, is more blunt. "Exactly how much he learned about national policy while sitting in a prison in Hanoi is terribly limited," he says of McCain. Furthermore, he says, the "grueling experience &#8230; might lead to questions about how healthy he is. The Hanoi Hilton logically could be expected to decrease your life expectancy."

Source: Military past on center stage in McCain run | wtsp.com

...later on he also gave a propaganda statement, "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life, thanks to the doctors.".

You post this with absolutely no context. How do you think you would have held up to years of imprisonment at the hands of brutal keepers such as the North Vietnamese were? <staff edit> Quote:

When I said that, the guards, who were all in the room&#8212;about 10 of them&#8212;really laid into me. They bounced me from pillar to post, kicking and laughing and scratching. After a few hours of that, ropes were put on me and I sat that night bound with ropes. Then I was taken to a small room. For punishment they would almost always take you to another room where you didn't have a mosquito net or a bed or any clothes. For the next four days, I was beaten every two to three hours by different guards. My left arm was broken again and my ribs were cracked.

They wanted a statement saying that I was sorry for the crimes that I had committed against North Vietnamese people and that I was grateful for the treatment that I had received from them. This was the paradox&#8212;so many guys were so mistreated to get them to say they were grateful. But this is the Communist way.

I held out for four days. Finally, I reached the lowest point of my 5½ years in North Vietnam. I was at the point of suicide, because I saw that I was reaching the end of my rope.


Source: John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account - US News

It has been reported Bergdahl was kept in a cage for a few days, a story the left is pouncing on to cry about how mistreated he was and to attempt to bolster the original claim made by Obama that Bergdahl was a hero. But Bergdahl did not suffer as McCain did, nor did McCain play soccer with his captors or engage in live fire exercises with them using their weapons. McCain signed a statement under severs duress.

<staff edit> McCain ran for President as a Republican against Obama and had the audacity to chose a woman for his running mate. Therefore he is bad, and his service, to include five and a half years in captivity at the hands of Communist, is only worthy of an asinine comparison meant to provide cover for a truly depraved decision made by Obama.

So please, don't try to insult my intelligence with your false assertions.

<Staff edit>

I see Code Pink has come out in support of guess?
 
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Drumfan84

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I think that this one single move puts every single American back in the crosshairs for another terrorist attack. I don't see the rationale behind essentially "trading" five anti-American, pro-terrorist Taliban members (who are still very active members), for a single solider who decided that he no longer wanted to be a part of the military he joined up for...

Our country's going down hill quicker than we think. This is just another example of things thare blatantly happening in front of our eyes, and the majority of people don't see the signs.
 
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Sistrin

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I see Code Pink has come out in support of guess?

Yeah, I saw that. Not surprised. Doesn't look like there were that many of them for the rally, however:

Bpy5BmpCcAATeM7.jpg
 
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