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Is transgender a lie?

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StephanieSomer

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All THAT incorrect attempt at origins explains is why some people feel so squicked by it, not that it has anything to do with sexual orientation--trans people can be of any sexual orientation.

Although I think using the acronym LGBT(QIA etc) makes it sound like an orientation when it isn't-- I'm not too fond of everything-but-the-kitchen-sink acronyms like that.


Neither are a lot of trans people whom I know. Quite a few are not at all in favor with being seen as allied with the LGB. And, quite a few of the LGB, have the same trouble understanding us transsexuals as the rest of society does. Suffice it to say that the alliance between the two is based on political motives.

Transsexuals face many of the same inequities that the LGB faces. And in that regard, we are quite the same.

The basic real societal difference between transsexuals and the LGB is that transsexuals tend to be a lot more recognizable. Most lesbians, gays, and bisexuals can easily dissolve into a crowd without detection if they so choose. This isn't quite so easy for many transsexuals.

I am somewhat fortunate in that regard. Being small framed to begin with makes life much easier for me than many of my trans friends. And the changes in skin texture and fat distributiuon from hormonal therapy have been quite impressive.
 
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Skybringr

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If you even had a modicum of credibility left, you just lost it completely.

COMPLETELY.

There isn't one thing about LGBT that isn't interchangeable to some degree. That is why they are all one group.

You all just want to confuse the truth; transgender is notoriously convenient. It's not the body, it's the mind! Oh, it's not the mind, it's the body!
Completely arbitrary.

Any honestly logical person can deduce that; it rather takes a radical standing to say otherwise, which is all it is- radical and TOO liberal. It is a jump off; it trivializes gender and sex altogether.
Which nature does not do, and so is inevitably an invention of the human mind.
 
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Reeniee

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There isn't one thing about LGBT that isn't interchangeable to some degree. That is why they are all one group.

What is your source for this statement? This is far from the normal understanding of these things, so you're going to have to back this up if you want it taken seriously.
 
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selfinflikted

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There isn't one thing about LGBT that isn't interchangeable to some degree. That is why they are all one group.

Um, no. Sorry, but you're wrong again. But, you have revealed something about yourself by making these statements, and it's now easier for me to understand why you feel the way you apparently do, and why you are also wrong so much.
 
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GenetoJean

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Gender is hardwired.

That is not evidence of an innate transgender.

The psychiatrist I brought up deduces that where gender is hardwired, and those like this boy are naturally convinced, transgenders approach it with confusion- they never just 'know', they have a feeling.
It's just homosexuality gone even more astray, that's all it is.

I dont know how mine is homosexuality since I am transitioning from male to female and not attracted to men.
 
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StephanieSomer

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There isn't one thing about LGBT that isn't interchangeable to some degree. That is why they are all one group.

You all just want to confuse the truth; transgender is notoriously convenient. It's not the body, it's the mind! Oh, it's not the mind, it's the body!
Completely arbitrary.

Any honestly logical person can deduce that; it rather takes a radical standing to say otherwise, which is all it is- radical and TOO liberal. It is a jump off; it trivializes gender and sex altogether.
Which nature does not do, and so is inevitably an invention of the human mind.


I have never, ever seen a single person here, or anywhere else for that matter, provide a cohesive, intelligent, and supportable argument, complete with studies and data AND Scripture, to substantiate a negative position on transition.

What does happen is a taking apart of any real positive arguments, sometimes deceptively edited, in order to try and denigrate the poster or the presented data.

And when that doesn't get anywhere, emotional weapons come into play. Harsh insinuations and outright character assassination takes place in a vain attempt to make a cogent argument.

TBH, I welcome such posts. They clearly illustrate that the opposition has nothing to offer either in real substance or compassion. They, in effect, tear down their own debate and render success by default to the positive side. I thank you!
 
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Skybringr

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Um, no. Sorry, but you're wrong again. But, you have revealed something about yourself by making these statements, and it's now easier for me to understand why you feel the way you apparently do, and why you are also wrong so much.

The only thing that's been revealed up and down this thread, and everyone like it, is that you all are 50% emotion and 50% loop holing through everything to dodge even the most obvious of things.

You all do that, and then try to demonize others who approach your conversion tactics and grandstanding.
 
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GenetoJean

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There isn't one thing about LGBT that isn't interchangeable to some degree. That is why they are all one group.

You all just want to confuse the truth; transgender is notoriously convenient. It's not the body, it's the mind! Oh, it's not the mind, it's the body!
Completely arbitrary.

Any honestly logical person can deduce that; it rather takes a radical standing to say otherwise, which is all it is- radical and TOO liberal. It is a jump off; it trivializes gender and sex altogether.
Which nature does not do, and so is inevitably an invention of the human mind.

I dont try to confuse anybody. My mind and body dont match. They havent been able to fix my mind, so to be able to be a happy functional member of society, I am changing my body. I dont care if someone says I have a mental illness or not. I just want relief form hating myself if that would have come from continuing to present as a man then I would have done that. It didnt and transition does.
 
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Skybringr

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Scripture

Yeah right, now the Holy Book confirms transgenders

:D

The Bible condemns LGBT. It defaces natural order and is an abomination to God. The fact that I'm speaking to proud homosexuals and transgenders on a Christian site is both bemusing and amusing to me.
I shouldn't even be wasting my time, you all are only here to aggravate the orthodox.
 
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Joykins

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There isn't one thing about LGBT that isn't interchangeable to some degree. That is why they are all one group.

No, they are all together in one acronym, but that's just an acronym--you know, like NASA stands for National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and it does not follow that "Aeronautics" and "Space" are the same thing.

You all just want

Attempting to read minds or motives is not a useful debating technique. Also, usually inaccurate.

to confuse the truth; transgender is notoriously convenient. It's not the body, it's the mind! Oh, it's not the mind, it's the body!
Completely arbitrary.

On the contrary, I think the idea is that the mind and body should be in harmony--this is the case in cisgender people, but transgender people have to deal with the anomalies when that doesn't happen (and bear the brunt both on their bodies and psyches.

Any honestly logical person can deduce that;

No.

it rather takes a radical standing to say otherwise, which is all it is- radical and TOO liberal. It is a jump off; it trivializes gender and sex altogether.

On the contrary--gender and sex are no less important to the trans person. The trans person just knows (with their mind) that their body has sadly, and mistakenly, classifed their gender incorrectly.

Which nature does not do, and so is inevitably an invention of the human mind.

The human mind itself is part of nature, and no more immune to natural phenomena than a dandelion or a duck. Nature itself sports many gender and chromosomal anomalies, and sex in the natural world is incredibly bizarre and diverse. We as ethical human beings do what we can to make sure people don't suffer unnecessarily from these anomalies.

Or we could bad-mouth them as demonic and non-Christian and deny the preponderance of evidence on this topic--that would be a meanspirited approach, but nature in her infinite diversity allows for the meanspirited as well as the kind.
 
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poolerboy0077

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Gender is hardwired.

That is not evidence of an innate transgender.
By itself it is not evidence of innate transgender but you seem to come off as someone not even willing to accept this as a possibility, which is bizarre considering the vastness and variety of mental phenomena currently in existence. Like I mentioned earlier, hermaphrodites (i.e., the intersexed) exist, yes? Why is it so difficult or even impossible to entertain that this could occur at the level of the brain instead of just at the level of the genital region?

The psychiatrist I brought up deduces that where gender is hardwired, and those like this boy are naturally convinced, transgenders approach it with confusion- they never just 'know', they have a feeling.
Aside from it being his mere assertion, one would nevertheless expect that a child whose body tells him he is one sex but his brain is telling him a different story is going to approach the issue with confusion. Dr. Berger, especially in the article you referenced, expresses confusion, especially when he says things like:
"Some times, some of these people have claimed that they are 'a woman trapped in a man's body' or alternatively 'a man trapped in a woman's body...The medical treatment of delusions, psychosis or emotional happiness is not surgery."
He further goes on to say, according to that article, that cosmetic surgery will not change the chromosomes of a human being. Both of these statements express confusion because the point isn't whether or not these individuals are, in fact, actually of the opposite sex. "Gender dysphoria" is a recognized disorder that causes real suffering and it is entirely independent of the issue Dr. Berger addresses. Even if, purely for the sake of argument, a person does not actually have a brain whose sex is different from said person's body, that doesn't change the fact that the person is truly experiencing dysphoria. Even Dr. Berger, per your article, calls it a mental illness. Calling something a mental illness establishes it as an actual biological phenomena, not some mere liberal conspiracy as you ludicrously suggest. For Berger to then say the following is even more ridiculous:
"There seems to me to be no medical or scientific reason to grant any special rights or considerations to people who are unhappy with the sex they were born into, or to people who wish to dress in the clothes of the opposite sex."
Special accommodations are often given to those we recognize as having mental illness. We also modify our society when we recognize that the way we've thought about certain groups of people was mistaken, illness or not (e.g., gay people, left-handed persons, redheads, etc.). Berger is simply an odious man, especially considering that he called for the ridicule of children who exhibit such symptomology, which lead to anti-gay organization NARTH to even pull an article of his whom his readers (which are not known for their friendliness toward the LGBT community) felt was offensive (here's a picture of the offensive comment). When even NARTH does such a move on you, you know you're stepped way out of line.

Also, as a side note, mentioning a lone M.D. making bald assertions isn't really evidence of anything scientific any more than Dr. OZ (also an M.D.) claiming that the pseudo-science of homeopathy is legitimate and using his mere credentials as some kind of weight. The claims will rise and fall with respect to the evidence, and it appears Dr. Berger as opted out of analyzing said evidence to instead make incoherent and irrelevant claims.

It's just homosexuality gone even more astray, that's all it is.
There are persons who are transgender (and have transitioned) but are heterosexual and those who are homosexual. Here is one such example.
 
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StephanieSomer

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Yeah right, now the Holy Book confirms transgenders

:D

The Bible condemns LGBT. It defaces natural order and is an abomination to God. The fact that I'm speaking to proud homosexuals and transgenders on a Christian site is both bemusing and amusing to me.
I shouldn't even be wasting my time, you all are only here to aggravate the orthodox.


What did I say about editing someone's posts?

Please show me where the Bible condemns the LGBT.

Also, define natural order and WHY it is our guide and NOT the Scripture.

Lastly, please show me where transsexuals are an abomination to God.

Like I posted. You will not because you CANNOT produce a single "cohesive, intelligent, and supportable argument, complete with studies and data AND Scripture, to substantiate a negative position on transition."
 
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Skybringr

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Or we could bad-mouth them as demonic and non-Christian and deny the preponderance of evidence on this topic--that would be a meanspirited approach, but nature in her infinite diversity allows for the meanspirited as well as the kind.

There
Is
No
Preponderance
Of
Evidence


I'm tired of this lie being brought up over and over.

And nature is not infinite, it is actually with many things annoyingly restricting. See what you did there? You had to make nature arbitrary to construct a notion of transgenders- which is arbitrary.

Being a realist and being mean spirited are two different things. I can't allow or agree with others who call evil good. Transgender is a doctrine of demons, same as homosexuality.
 
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poolerboy0077

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There

Is

No

Preponderance

Of

Evidence
Preponderance of evidence is a legal term (not a scientific one) that simply means "more likely than not." That's a very low bar you've set for yourself. What do you make of these studies?
I suspect you won't look at them and dismiss them as some kind of liberal conspiracy. That, of course, does not mean there is no evidence. It simply means you wish to persist in your own ignorance. Perhaps you'd like to reference one of the many bald assertions by Dr. Berger to calm your nerves.
 
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Skybringr

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Because you choose to ignore evidence, does not mean evidence does not exist.

I'm sorry that I cannot recognize what is non-existent. What is this, the forth run around this time with this same exact thing?

Where is the evidence? You all have arbitrary assumption and speculation. Nothing conclusive.
There is however good sense which deduces dubious endeavors among liberals and LGBT themselves, and frustrated psychiatrists coming right out and saying it's all basically pseudo-science.

So, every time you want to say what you just said, remember that I have the upper ground and it just shows your facade for what it is.
 
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StephanieSomer

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I'm sorry that I cannot recognize what is non-existent. What is this, the forth run around this time with this same exact thing?

Where is the evidence? You all have arbitrary assumption and speculation. Nothing conclusive.
There is however good sense which deduces dubious endeavors among liberals and LGBT themselves, and frustrated psychiatrists coming right out and saying it's all basically pseudo-science.

So, every time you want to say what you just said, remember that I have the upper ground and it just shows your facade for what it is.


Then show us your "upper ground" and prove what you are saying. I've never really asked you for anything more than that.

Several dozen times.

Still waiting, Sky.
 
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selfinflikted

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Where is the evidence? You all have arbitrary assumption and speculation. Nothing conclusive.

Non-existent? Evidence is evidence. You've been shown evidence in this thread, and others. You do realize, of course, that it doesn't have to be conclusive to be considered evidence.

There is however good sense which deduces dubious endeavors among liberals and LGBT themselves, and frustrated psychiatrists coming right out and saying it's all basically pseudo-science.

Your "good sense" means absolutely nothing without something backing it. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
 
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