Is transgender a lie?

[poolerboy0077]

Where is the evidence? You all have arbitrary assumption and speculation. Nothing conclusive.

What would count as "conclusive" evidence for you? Recognize that we are dealing with mental phenomena. Most of the variations and illnesses that occur psychologically are relied on heavily by having the person exhibiting a phenomenon report it to third parties. There can be subsequent study, perhaps through the use of fMRI scans, to locate regions of the brain known to be associated with, say, the region determining sex or gender and the frequency with which such brain activity occurs in other persons communicating similar symptomology. You cannot expect to split the brain and find depression, ADHD, OCD, PTSD, etc. Are you prepared to take the radical position of someone like Thomas Szasz and claim there are no mental illnesses period?

 

[Joykins]

There
Is
No
Preponderance
Of
Evidence


I'm tired of this lie being brought up over and over.

You've managed to produce one link to a Lifesite article quoting one psychologist affiliated with NARTH. This has been pointed out over and over. Now, to appreciate the preponderance of evidence on the subject, you may have to do actual research, rather than google-mining. Are you up for it?

And nature is not infinite, it is actually with many things annoyingly restricting.

There are hermaphroditic worms, and small animals who reproduce parthenogenically. There are practically-immortal jellyfish. There are plants and animals that allow their gametes to float on the water or the wind to fertilize or be fertilize. There are female hyenas with pseudopenes. And there are people with genetic anomalies such as mosiacism and chimeras who lead completely normal lives.

See what you did there? You had to beautify nature to construct a notion of transgenders.

What I actually did was study biology. Not in-depth, just a few courses and books. An idea, perhaps?

Being a realist and being mean spirited are two different things. I can't allow or agree with others who call evil good. Transgender is a doctrine of demons, same as homosexuality.

Well, you speak for yourself; it can't be any clearer than that

 

[Skybringr]

What would count as "conclusive" evidence for you? Recognize that we are dealing with mental phenomena. Most of the variations and illnesses that occur psychologically are relied on heavily by having the person exhibiting a phenomenon report it to third parties. There can be subsequent study, perhaps through the use of fMRI scans, to locate regions of the brain known to be associated with, say, the region determining sex or gender and the frequency with which such brain activity occurs in other persons communicating similar symptomology. You cannot expect to split the brain and find depression, ADHD, OCD, PTSD, etc. Are you prepared to take the radical position of someone like Thomas Szasz and claim there are no mental illnesses period?

"Mental illness" has always been a loaded subject.

I read a thing once, a long time ago, that spoke on the probability that as much as 50% of children diagnosed with ADHD actually don't have it, and 25% of children who aren't diagnosed have it.

It went on to explain that diagnosing a kid with ADHD was a bit over the top anyway, simply diagnosing those with bad upbringings.



The point is obvious- psychology has a hard time pinning anything down, and is a science in it's infancy.
If a conflict of interest or deduction exists on a matter such as that, then it exists among a lot of other things in psychology as well.

To say that transgender is factually innate is to be scientifically dishonest and arbitrary. If one were to be honest, one would admit that most of it all is propelled by emotion and forced leeway.

 

[StephanieSomer]

"Mental illness" has always been a loaded subject.

I read a thing once, a long time ago, that spoke on the probability that as much as 50% of children diagnosed with ADHD actually don't have it, and 25% of children who aren't diagnosed have it.

It went on to explain that diagnosing a kid with ADHD was a bit over the top anyway, simply diagnosing those with bad upbringings.



The point is obvious- psychology has a hard time pinning anything down, and is a science in it's infancy.
If a conflict of interest or deduction exists on a matter such as that, then it exists among a lot of other things in psychology as well.

To say that transgender is factually innate is to be scientifically dishonest and arbitrary. If one were to be honest, one would admit that most of it all is propelled by emotion and forced leeway.

Faulty conclusion, not related to your premise. Try again.

The truth is, the evidence on the biological source of transsexuality isn't from psychology. It's from clinical physical evidence.

 

[FireDragon76]

The basic real societal difference between transsexuals and the LGB is that transsexuals tend to be a lot more recognizable. Most lesbians, gays, and bisexuals can easily dissolve into a crowd without detection if they so choose. This isn't quite so easy for many transsexuals.

That's a broad generalization that is often untrue. I know several people that were unable to hide the fact they are gay from many people. There have been studies where ordinary people are able to identify gay men, from pre-recorded videos, 70 percent of the time.

Rigidly distancing between the T and the LGB is not all that helpful, for one thing there is evidence in terms of brain structure that they may exist on a continuum of gender variance.

 

[StephanieSomer]

That's a broad generalization that is often untrue. I know several people that were unable to hide the fact they are gay from many people. There have been studies where ordinary people are able to identify gay men, from pre-recorded videos, 70 percent of the time.

Rigidly distancing between the T and the LGB is not all that helpful, for one thing there is evidence in terms of brain structure that they may exist on a continuum of gender variance.

I realize it was a generalization. It was worded as one. I said "most". And I still stand by that. I, too, know several gays that would be difficult to hide. However, if they CHOSE to, they would have a lot more success than some of the transgirls I know. I have some friends that are 6'6', weigh well over 250 without being overweight, wear a size 18 - 20 shoe, and are very broadly built. It's near impossible for them to "dissolve" into a crowd.

Plus, be aware that I'm not including mannerisms and speech when I said they could "dissolve". Only appearance.

 

[loveofourlord]

Again I want to go back to the example of the females that become males at puberty.

Should we try to prevent them from becoming males at puberty, because they were not born looking male? Or force them to comport with their actual sex by changing them earlier on? We see time and time against where the physical sex of a child doesn't match the actual, by the argument, "He's born a boy and has to stay a boy." it could be argued then that we must force girls that are actually boys to become boys against their will after all we must all be what we actually are.

It's just all nonsense, and on the point abot rarity we don't know just how rare these things are, how many infertile males and females are actually the wrong sex? Many of these things unless complications arrive that are tested for there is no way of really knowing something is wrong.

 

[Skybringr]

Faulty conclusion, not related to your premise. Try again.

It's obvious you weren't even looking for the point, you were just trying to find a way to pretty much wave it away.

The truth is, the evidence on the biological source of transsexuality isn't from psychology. It's from clinical physical evidence.

Yeah, where's it at?

 

[StephanieSomer]

Again I want to go back to the example of the females that become males at puberty.

Should we try to prevent them from becoming males at puberty, because they were not born looking male? Or force them to comport with their actual sex by changing them earlier on? We see time and time against where the physical sex of a child doesn't match the actual, by the argument, "He's born a boy and has to stay a boy." it could be argued then that we must force girls that are actually boys to become boys against their will after all we must all be what we actually are.

It's just all nonsense, and on the point abot rarity we don't know just how rare these things are, how many infertile males and females are actually the wrong sex? Many of these things unless complications arrive that are tested for there is no way of really knowing something is wrong.

Regarding the rarity issue.....

I have seen a decent argument made that would lead one to believe that as many as 1 in 400 males are born with transsexual identities. It is pretty clear through therapists records that most do not go on to transition. However, the idea that it is rare is very probably untrue.

 

[Hetta]

"Transgender" is just another sick twisted idea born of a debased perverted society.

I guess that babies born with Klinefelter Syndrome, AIS or PMDS are also "sick" and "twisted" even though they developed that way in the womb - apparently with God's full knowledge.

 

[Joykins]

That's a broad generalization that is often untrue. I know several people that were unable to hide the fact they are gay from many people. There have been studies where ordinary people are able to identify gay men, from pre-recorded videos, 70 percent of the time.

Rigidly distancing between the T and the LGB is not all that helpful, for one thing there is evidence in terms of brain structure that they may exist on a continuum of gender variance.

My dissatisfaction with the acronym is not that the commonalities don't exist, but that the characteristics and interests of various subgroups may vary but the indiscriminate use of the acronym encourages people to not make those distinctions even when the distinctions should be made, whether out of habit or some notion of political correctness.

 

[StephanieSomer]

My dissatisfaction with the acronym is not that the commonalities don't exist, but that the characteristics and interests of various subgroups may vary but the indiscriminate use of the acronym encourages people to not make those distinctions even when the distinctions should be made, whether out of habit or some notion of political correctness.

I think I can illustrate this.

WHen people refer to me or any other individual as simply part of the LGBT, I get the very same feeling of being misunderstood when another person makes some reference to christians, moslems, buddhists, and shintoists as an analogous grouping. I mentally understand what is meant by including Christianity within that grouping, but I in no way equate my faith with that of a Buddhist, Moslem, or Shintoist. And neither do I feel a great connection with the LGB. I do not dismiss the LGB as a irrelevant. But, I also do not see myself as being either L, G, or B.

The T is really a different issue entirely. And transsexuals used to be allied with no one. And was getting nowhere in the search for legal protections that the LGB WAS getting. So, the connection is more political than anything, based on the shared experiences of inequality and misunderstanding which we both have.

It in no way equates the two. In reality, even the L, the G, and the B have distinct issues which the others do not share. But all 4 groups have allied in order to achieve what none of us could alone. That does not make us the same.

 

[FireDragon76]

It in no way equates the two. In reality, even the L, the G, and the B have distinct issues which the others do not share. But all 4 groups have allied in order to achieve what none of us could alone. That does not make us the same.

That's a gross simplification... I guess you haven't read much Queer Theory, the commonality is more than just political, it's cultural.

Trying to throw gay men and women under a bus here on a Christian forum to advance perceived interests of transpersons will hardly help, as is obvious on this thread. Homophobia most of the time is also transphobia, because they share common cultural origins, specifically the way masculinity is constructed and valued in our culture.

 

[Armoured]

That's a gross simplification... I guess you haven't read much Queer Theory, the commonality is more than just political, it's cultural.

Trying to throw gay men and women under a bus here on a Christian forum to advance perceived interests of transpersons will hardly help, as is obvious on this thread. Homophobia most of the time is also transphobia, because they share common cultural origins, specifically the way masculinity is constructed and valued in our culture.

Pointing out that LGBTs are not a homogenous monoculture is hardly "throwing anyone under a bus"

 

[Skybringr]

"Transgender" is just another sick twisted idea born of a debased perverted society.

Transgender and Christian are incompatible.

Let's look at the first chapter of Romans, where Paul teaches that the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against those who turn from their proper relationship of the Creator by committing idolatry.

Or how God gives them over to impure thoughts and dishonoring their bodies.

LGBT is altogether learned in one's fallen state, pursued in defiance to God's ordinance of nature and marriage.

It is symptomatic of a society under judgement, inwardly corrupted to the point of collapse- which is why LGBT has swelled out of nowhere into a FLAUNTING SUBCULTURE and the worldly, liberal trumpets are blowing loud.

It has no longer become about proper, orthodox Christianity for many; they have made it to fit their desire rather then His- there is literally not one kind of person, whether the wealthy hypocrite or the transgender, who has some grand conclusion that they are okay with God.

 

[Hetta]

impure thoughts and dishonoring their bodies.

IME, LGBT individuals are no more or less pure in their thoughts than straight individuals.

 

[StephanieSomer]

It's obvious you weren't even looking for the point, you were just trying to find a way to pretty much wave it away.

ADHD has nothing in common with transsexuality.

Yeah, where's it at?

You ignored it. But, I'm sure if you really want to read it you can flip back and find it.

 

[StephanieSomer]

That's a gross simplification... I guess you haven't read much Queer Theory, the commonality is more than just political, it's cultural.

Trying to throw gay men and women under a bus here on a Christian forum to advance perceived interests of transpersons will hardly help, as is obvious on this thread. Homophobia most of the time is also transphobia, because they share common cultural origins, specifically the way masculinity is constructed and valued in our culture.

If you felt I was throwing anyone under the bus then I must apologize. I meant no such offense. Please excuse my insensitivity.

My discussions were more to explain the reasons for which many in the trans community tell me they don't want to be affiliated with the LGB. I am neutral on it myself.

 

[StephanieSomer]

Transgender and Christian are incompatible.

With nothing to substantiate your assertion, I can refute it very simply...... No they're not.

 

[Flowerandthevine]

Reading these 42 pages has been depressing.

I am glad that people are still free to obtain medical care to lessen suffering and that differing opinions will remain just that. Opinions.