Is transgender a lie?

[selfinflikted]

Studies of the brain are showing development closer to that of the opposite sex than the birth sex. Some people claim that it is caused by behavior, belief or environment, but they have no evidence or have presented no evidence to support the conclusion that it would have this exact effect.

So you can believe what you want about this situation. I have looked at the studies and statements from both sides. I also have my own experience and life to examine. People who know far more about this stuff than me have come to the conclusion that there is physical evidence to support medical treatment of this condition.

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There is evidence that androgen receptors play a role in male to female transsexualism. This can be empirically studied.

http://ts-si.org/files/doi101016jbiopsych200808033.pdf

 

[Cute Tink]

There isn't any. We've been wasting away at this subject for over a long time now, and they've presented is speculation, absolutely no conclusive evidence, and emotional arguments.

They've also, multiple times, simply just tried to go around and be dishonest about that fact and deny even the simplest of observations.

It is obvious that they live in a corruption, a lie, and do not plan to ever admit it. I say just leave them to it.

You don't have anything except one person stating what you want to hear. You've been presented with the studies in other threads. You choose to ignore everything else because it's not what you choose to believe. That's not my problem.

You don't have any evidence to challenge the evidence you've ignored. Again, not my problem.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think mortal sin is apt to describe doing things that God has expressly forbidden according to what the Bible seems to say.

Expressly forbidden? This is just intellectually dishonest. The Bible doesn't directly address the issue of transsexual persons, so we have to rely upon theological arguments. So far most of what I have heard is junk.

Salvation is not a get out of jail pass for unrepentant sin. It doesn't work like that, even though its hip to think that way these latter days.

That's the whole point of Christ's substitutionary atonement- it is a get out of jail free pass. THe fact some people have trouble with this tells me a lot more about how much legalism has infested certain corners of Christian culture.

 

[selfinflikted]

I also wish abacabb3 and skybringr and others would answer the question about plastic surgery. I have a feeling they are avoiding answering because obvious hypocrisy would be obvious.

 

[Reeniee]

That's the whole point of Christ's substitutionary atonement- it is a get out of jail free pass.

...and thank God for that, I know that I for one was getting salvation no other way. Grace really is pretty amazing.

 

[StephanieSomer]

God spoke harshly about certain kinds of things. If someone pretends to be something else and then engages in those things, I'm not sure if its love to condone those unnatural acts. Maybe warning them to stop it and not accepting it is more loving than it would be to smile quietly as they skip off into the consequences of mortal sin.

Keep in mind where you are. Expecting Christians to not think of such things is asinine.

I don't think you understand that the purpose behind transition is to STOP pretending to be the gender that the born sex indicates. The whole issue is that the sex and gender are NOT congruous. Sex and gender are very distinct issues, each derived from a different part of the body. Sex is in the crotch. Gender is in the brain.

By your position, you would rather that individuals whose gender does not match their sex continue in turmoil. And this position is Godly because????

 

[StephanieSomer]

From what I understand, its physical mutilation and performance. It would be like if a person decided to have their arms and legs surgically removed and demanded to be called a box.

It's apparent you do not understand then. Perhaps some actual study and research would help you.

I think mortal sin is apt to describe doing things that God has expressly forbidden according to what the Bible seems to say. I could be wrong though. These days we seem to have more and more illuminated interpretations of scripture.

Ok. So, where is transition expressly forbidden?

Salvation is not a get out of jail pass for unrepentant sin. It doesn't work like that, even though its hip to think that way these latter days.

Nobody said anything about unrepentant sin. That's an assumption on your part.

My question to you is, "Can you define the sin in transitioning from Scripture?"

 

[Cute Tink]

There is evidence that androgen receptors play a role in male to female transsexualism. This can be empirically studied.

http://ts-si.org/files/doi101016jbiopsych200808033.pdf

Thank you for this link. I will read it later

 

[StephanieSomer]

Its exactly the same if the sincerity is there. If someone called you something you are not you would probably be offended. Yet, people choose to call themselves something they are not and to try to be something they are not. Is acceptance so difficult?

You are correct. My birth sex is male. My gender is female.

Pronouns are used to address a person's gender, not their sex. There are no pronouns for addressing a person's sex. If you wanted to address someone that way, you'd have to run the risk of being offensive.

I am offended when anyone uses male pronouns in reference to me. They aren't appropriate to my gender. However, I don't make an issue of it with anyone. I just take my cues from them and treat them accordingly.

 

[StephanieSomer]

Well, in the movie the character is delusional and really believes some things when the reality is different. So, we can't question the fact that he is convinced in his own mind the rat is a puppy. But, if you look at the rat, it appears like a rat. If you test it's DNA, it comes out as a rat. It sounds like a rat. In fact, the only thing that supposedly makes it a puppy is his honest opinion. Problem is, outside of his subjective opinion, there is nothing objectively true about his claim.

I am not delusional. I am very well aware of what my gender is. Clinical studies have confirmed that brain structure in transsexuals does match the brain structure of the gender to which they identify. So, there IS objective proof to support my claim. There is none to support your poor illustration.

 

[selfinflikted]

It would seem that it bears pointing out again that gender and sex are not the same thing. Sex is biology. Gender is a social construct.

 

[StephanieSomer]

I love how atheists are all about empirical evidence and are absurdly difficult to talk to on just about anything no matter how simple.

But with the lacking evidence of transgenders, or anything liberal, you all blindly accept it

Go figure. I guess all that liberal nonsense is in fact- liberal nonsense.

You are insinuating that transsexuals are by default non-Christian and by extension that I am non-Christian. I expect a retraction of this. It is untrue. And also violates overall forum rules.

 

[selfinflikted]

Thank you for this link. I will read it later

No problem. It is rare that I can actually post links as most of the internet is blocked from where I post. However, I was able to at least find one link that wasn't blocked. A simple Google search turned up many results for science behind transgender, but I am sadly unable to view them. But for some in this thread to say that there is no evidence is simply a blatant lie, as Google shows.

 

[StephanieSomer]

I say just leave them to it.

Sounds reasonable. When do you leave?

 

[selfinflikted]

When do you leave?

 

[StephanieSomer]

Is a "Transsexual" someone who is Transgender and transitions, whilst a Transgender individual may or may not have transitioned? Just trying to get the terminology clear, as I thought that they meant the same thing, but Transsexual was an outdated term. Just trying to make sure that I don't use the wrong terms and spread confusion, thanks!

Transgender is more of an umbrella term that includes transsexuals. All transsexuals can be referred to as transgender. But, not all transgender can be called transsexual.

 

[Cute Tink]

No problem. It is rare that I can actually post links as most of the internet is blocked from where I post. However, I was able to at least find one link that wasn't blocked. A simple Google search turned up many results for science behind transgender, but I am sadly unable to view them. But for some in this thread to say that there is no evidence is simply a blatant lie, as Google shows.

I know what you mean. I do a lot of searches from my phone for that reason.

 

[selfinflikted]

I know what you mean. I do a lot of searches from my phone for that reason.

Why has this never occurred to me before?

 

[StephanieSomer]

It would seem that it bears pointing out again that gender and sex are not the same thing. Sex is biology. Gender is a social construct.

If gender were a social construct, then it would be possible to modify it in young children. That supposition was used to justify surgery on David Reimer after a failed circumcision procedure as a baby. The cauterizer tool malfunctioned and his penis was quite literally burned to a crisp. It fell off a few days later.

A then-respected researcher, Dr. John Money, advised sex reconstruction to a female form and to raise him as a girl. Dr. Money insisted that gender was determined through social interaction and that the child would grow up normally, albeit sterile.

The experiment was a horrible failure. As an adolescent, the child insisted "she" was a boy. It was later that the parents actually related the full story to their child. "She" sought surgery to correct the mistake. Succes was very limited and he became depressed. Depression grew until it finally took his life at the age of 38.

Since that time, growing evidence is that gender is a result of brain wiring and structure, not social interaction. Therefore, it isn't a social construct, but a biological function of the brain.

 

[selfinflikted]

If gender were a social construct, then it would be possible to modify it in young children. That supposition was used to justify surgery on David Reimer after a failed circumcision procedure as a baby. The cauterizer tool malfunctioned and his penis was quite literally burned to a crisp. It fell off a few days later.

A then-respected researcher, Dr. John Money, advised sex reconstruction to a female form and to raise him as a girl. Dr. Money insisted that gender was determined through social interaction and that the child would grow up normally, albeit sterile.

The experiment was a horrible failure. As an adolescent, the child insisted "she" was a boy. It was later that the parents actually related the full story to their child. "She" sought surgery to correct the mistake. Succes was very limited and he became depressed. Depression grew until it finally took his life at the age of 38.

Since that time, growing evidence is that gender is a result of brain wiring and structure, not social interaction. Therefore, it isn't a social construct, but a biological function of the brain.

I am familiar with the case. But I disagree to some degree. If gender were strictly biological, why then do transgender people dress like the opposite sex, often play with toys "meant" (term used extremely loosely here) for the opposite sex as children, etc?