Is transgender a lie?

[Cute Tink]

I am familiar with the case. But I disagree to some degree. If gender were strictly biological, why then do transgender people dress like the opposite sex, often play with toys "meant" (term used extremely loosely here) for the opposite sex as children, etc?

In my case, it is because the clothes are more comfortable and i like the cut better. Some of the toys are more directed towards my interests.

To be stereotypical, many of the things from man land were just never interesting at all

 

[Skybringr]

If gender were a social construct, then it would be possible to modify it in young children. That supposition was used to justify surgery on David Reimer after a failed circumcision procedure as a baby. The cauterizer tool malfunctioned and his penis was quite literally burned to a crisp. It fell off a few days later.

A then-respected researcher, Dr. John Money, advised sex reconstruction to a female form and to raise him as a girl. Dr. Money insisted that gender was determined through social interaction and that the child would grow up normally, albeit sterile.

The experiment was a horrible failure. As an adolescent, the child insisted "she" was a boy. It was later that the parents actually related the full story to their child. "She" sought surgery to correct the mistake. Succes was very limited and he became depressed. Depression grew until it finally took his life at the age of 38.

Since that time, growing evidence is that gender is a result of brain wiring and structure, not social interaction. Therefore, it isn't a social construct, but a biological function of the brain.

He grew up a eunuch, and we're supposed to suggest that he was instead a girl rather then a boy because he didn't feel like a boy growing up?

Well no wonder he didn't feel like a guy, he had no manhood!

If anything it is just proof that it's all exactly as stated by the psychiatrist I quoted earlier: They are just unhappy, and the only difference between them and the unhappy is that it relates to a gender confusion utterly conceived by such.

It is a bonafide social construct, why do you think it wasn't until he was a teenager when everyone in high school are in relationships or having sex that he allegedly becomes 'confused'?

This is what you are doing:

The color of this sentence is red.

 

[StephanieSomer]

I am familiar with the case. But I disagree to some degree. If gender were strictly biological, why then do transgender people dress like the opposite sex, often play with toys "meant" (term used extremely loosely here) for the opposite sex as children, etc?

Because of their brain wiring and functions. Whether people know it or not, we perceive the world through several sets of filters; some are learned, others are biological in nature. One of those filters is gender. If the brain determines a feminine gender, it colors the perception of that individual and their behavior will comply with what others will naturally recognize as female.

We all express our gender in most everything we do. Usually without conscious effort. It comes out naturally. The angst that transsexuals live in before treatment is due to feeling manipulated by outside forces to comply with behaviors which are not natural to them and are actually in conflict with who they are internally. And until transition, there is no escape from that constant pressure to perform. The forced behavior solidifies the boundaries of the "trap", making it more and more inescapable as life goes on. As the sense of helplessness grows, so does depression. Depression saps all the strength out of you making life a pure hell and death a welcome respite.

I used to deal with it by overworking and sleeping. If I could get busy enough to occupy my mind, I could find some measure of relief, though not total. The best relief I ever got before transition was sleeping. I slept a lot. Every chance I could I'd get away and go to bed. That is not conducive to healthy family relationships. And mine suffered greatly from it.

Now that I am in transition, the angst is gone.

 

[StephanieSomer]

He grew up a eunuch, and we're supposed to suggest that he was instead a girl rather then a boy because he didn't feel like a boy growing up?

Well no wonder he didn't feel like a guy, he had no manhood!

If anything it is just proof that it's all exactly as stated by the psychiatrist I quoted earlier: They are just unhappy, and the only difference between them and the unhappy is that it relates to a gender confusion utterly conceived by such.

It is a bonafide social construct, why do you think it wasn't until he was a teenager when everyone in high school are in relationships or having sex that he allegedly becomes 'confused'?

This is what you are doing:

The color of this sentence is red.

Sky, try rereading it. You got it twisted. If you'd like, the full story is in a book called, "As Nature Made Him" by John Colapinto.

 

[selfinflikted]

Stephanie, that makes sense. Thanks for correcting me on that.

ETA: I am trying hard to understand all the different issues with gender and sexuality that some people have. Sometimes, because I am gay, I fool myself into thinking I can understand it a little better than the general population. But sometimes all it takes is someone challenging me on something I think I have a grasp on to realize that I don't know anything about anything.

 

[StephanieSomer]

Stephanie, that makes sense. Thanks for correcting me on that.

I appreciate your questions and willingness to learn. If you should have any more questions, just ask. If they aren't strictly related to this thread, you are welcome to PM me.

 

[Cute Tink]

He grew up a eunuch, and we're supposed to suggest that he was instead a girl rather then a boy because he didn't feel like a boy growing up?

Well no wonder he didn't feel like a guy, he had no manhood!

If anything it is just proof that it's all exactly as stated by the psychiatrist I quoted earlier: They are just unhappy, and the only difference between them and the unhappy is that it relates to a gender confusion utterly conceived by such.

It is a bonafide social construct, why do you think it wasn't until he was a teenager when everyone in high school are in relationships or having sex that he allegedly becomes 'confused'?

This is what you are doing:

The color of this sentence is red.

Did you read her post? David was altered as a child to appear female because of an accident as a baby. He was raised as a female, was dressed as a female, etc. Despite all of that social conditioning, he knew he was a male

 

[Marius27]

God spoke harshly about certain kinds of things.

Actually, the Biblical authors spoke harshly about some things. Most of which you yourself commit. The Bible speaks quite harshly about working on the Sabbath and wearing mixed clothing. Yet, they go ignored.

 

[Marius27]

In my case, it is because the clothes are more comfortable and i like the cut better. Some of the toys are more directed towards my interests.

To be stereotypical, many of the things from man land were just never interesting at all

I think his point is, we as society typically dictate that boys like blue, girls like pink. Boys play with trucks and play sports, girls play with dolls.

What part of biology dictates that boys should like blue over pink? Why is pink objectively a girl color? Why are trucks a boy toy, instead of dolls?

All of that is inherently a social construct.

 

[selfinflikted]

I think his point is, we as society typically dictate that boys like blue, girls like pink. Boys play with trucks and play sports, girls play with dolls.

What part of biology dictates that boys should like blue over pink? Why is pink objectively a girl color? Why are trucks a boy toy, instead of dolls?

All of that is inherently a social construct.

That is, for all intents and purposes, exactly what I meant. Thanks.

 

[Cute Tink]

I think his point is, we as society typically dictate that boys like blue, girls like pink. Boys play with trucks and play sports, girls play with dolls.

What part of biology dictates that boys should like blue over pink? Why is pink objectively a girl color? Why are trucks a boy toy, instead of dolls?

All of that is inherently a social construct.

Yes, that much is true.

 

[StephanieSomer]

I think his point is, we as society typically dictate that boys like blue, girls like pink. Boys play with trucks and play sports, girls play with dolls.

What part of biology dictates that boys should like blue over pink? Why is pink objectively a girl color? Why are trucks a boy toy, instead of dolls?

All of that is inherently a social construct.

It would surprise you to learn that the color differential between the sexes was exactly the opposite less than 2 centuries ago. And dresses were the proper way to dress all children up to about 10 - 12.

 

[poolerboy0077]

I think his point is, we as society typically dictate that boys like blue, girls like pink. Boys play with trucks and play sports, girls play with dolls.

What part of biology dictates that boys should like blue over pink? Why is pink objectively a girl color? Why are trucks a boy toy, instead of dolls?

All of that is inherently a social construct.

Things may not be as simple as we once thought: Gender & Toys: Monkey Study Suggests Hormonal Basis For Children's Toy Preferences

Biological components of sex differences in color preference

 

[selfinflikted]

Things may not be as simple as we once thought: Gender & Toys: Monkey Study Suggests Hormonal Basis For Children's Toy Preferences

Biological components of sex differences in color preference

That is interesting, indeed. Thanks for posting.

 

[StephanieSomer]

Things may not be as simple as we once thought: Gender & Toys: Monkey Study Suggests Hormonal Basis For Children's Toy Preferences

Biological components of sex differences in color preference

The article touches on something that I've not yet seen brought up. Digit ratios. I find digit ratios more of an interesting side-topic than an article of argument. But, mine do agree with what many would expect from a transsexual.

 

[Skybringr]

Did you read her post? David was altered as a child to appear female because of an accident as a baby. He was raised as a female, was dressed as a female, etc. Despite all of that social conditioning, he knew he was a male

Gender is hardwired.

That is not evidence of an innate transgender.

The psychiatrist I brought up deduces that where gender is hardwired, and those like this boy are naturally convinced, transgenders approach it with confusion- they never just 'know', they have a feeling.
It's just homosexuality gone even more astray, that's all it is.

 

[StephanieSomer]

Gender is hardwired.

That is not evidence of an innate transgender.

The psychiatrist I brought up deduces that where gender is hardwired, and those like this boy are naturally convinced, transgenders approach it with confusion- they never just 'know', they have a feeling.
It's just homosexuality gone even more astray, that's all it is.

Progress!

You are correct, Sky. Gender IS hardwired. And there is nothing directly linking sex and gender. The hormonal flushes which occur in utero have very specific functions. Some of them are directed at genital development, while others are directed at brain development and wiring.

There are people who have had malfunctions in their hormonal in utero development that as a result have ambiguous or even opposite genitals to that which would be expected considering their genotype.

There are also people who have had similar hormonal malfunctions that were directed at their brain's hard-wiring. Those people can develop a gender opposite their genotype.

To blanketly assume that everyone with a penis is male and has a male gender isn't reasonable. It IS the norm, and most are that way. But, not all.

I was never confused about my gender. I WAS confused as to why everyone else insisted I was a boy. I eventually did learn why they held that opinion. But it isn't always fully valid.

 

[Cute Tink]

Gender is hardwired.

Probably. That doesn't necessarily mean that it fits with birth sex though

The psychiatrist I brought up deduces that where gender is hardwired, and those like this boy are naturally convinced, transgenders approach it with confusion- they never just 'know', they have a feeling.
It's just homosexuality gone even more astray, that's all it is.

More evidence you still don't understand

 

[selfinflikted]

It's just homosexuality gone even more astray, that's all it is.

If you even had a modicum of credibility left, you just lost it completely.

COMPLETELY.

 

[Joykins]

It's just homosexuality gone even more astray, that's all it is.

All THAT incorrect attempt at origins explains is why some people feel so squicked by it, not that it has anything to do with sexual orientation--trans people can be of any sexual orientation.

Although I think using the acronym LGBT(QIA etc) makes it sound like an orientation when it isn't-- I'm not too fond of everything-but-the-kitchen-sink acronyms like that.