From WOF to simplicity

[now faith]

It is as right to call these so-called men and women of God "thou whited wall," or whatever true name is fitting, such as "ambassadors of error," or whatever is best fitting, as it was for Paul to speak it to the "high priest" of his time.

These televangelists have been made into idols by the blind and suffering who think they actually have something to say and give to them. But we who see through their charade call them what they are, and are not afraid to tell it to their faces. They are the major source of Babylonian doctrine in this day, and have set the church back maybe another forty years. They are a roadblock to the truth, which is the fact that the church has lost her way with their error filled meetings and personal kingdom building.

To blame all that is wrong in the world on one faith group,is is simply promoting hate.
At least WOF has a set of core beliefs,but to simply make up your own brand of hate filled
Theology is truly what is wrong today.
Galatians: 5. 15. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulful the lust of the flesh. 17. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20. Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21. Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23. Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

[now faith]

I agree. IMO the two most damaging doctrines are the 'we are little gods' doctrine and the 'positive confession or speak what you want into existence'. Who needs God then? How does one humble themselves before the Lord. Those are a slippery slope. Yup. Yup.

Genesis: 1. 26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Those in Christ are the sons of God where by we cry Abbas Father.
That is the little God's context,if you have a child in your image he is a junior,a little you.
Granted the statement was misunderstood to mean we are Equal to God.
God gave Adam dominion over the earth,he lost it to Satan the God of this world.

The blood of Christ restored all that was lost including man's dominion for those who accept him.

Don't be confused to the point of not making positive confession or speaking the Word over your tribulation.
Positive confession is not making wishes,it is confessing God's word over your life.
The Bible clearly states all the promises of God are yes and amen.
Why would standing on these promises and making a positive confession of them be a bad thing.
What is bad is second hand smoke,it's a cancer of gossip about someone teaching what God
Has already done for you.
Read it for your self,read the King James.
Study side by side the Text of the King James against the critical text of modern versions.

The critical text has omitted so many verses concerning Christ I don't have room to list them all.

You will never have what you speak against,or receive from God anything without faith.
WOF is not your enemy Satan is and he comes to steal what is already promised to the believer.
If deception was as easy as labeling a faith group,a person would be living a life of the best God has given us.
But it wouldn't be deception would it?

 

[PersephonesTear]

Just because Hinn is Charismatic (or more likely Pentecostal) doesn't mean he's not WoF.
You are posting on a Charismatic forum, does that mean you're not WoF?

Benny Hinn may not have graduated from Rhema, but his beliefs are WoF.

Please tell me which parts of the WoF Statement of Faith you think Benny Hinn does not believe?


Thanks,
Simon

Yes, Word of Faith and Charismatic are not mutually exclusive. Word of Faith teachings have found their way into many Charismatic and Pentecostal churches.

Benny Hinn particularly began his gig by copying Kathryn Kuhlman, and he got his start in the Toronto Blessing/Third Wave crowd. He didn't become associated with the AG until much later, and as noted before, the association was brief. He cannot properly be called Pentecostal by any stretch. But even if he was Pentecostal, that would by no means indicate that he is not also Word of Faith.

I can certainly understand the WOF'ers on this forum trying to claim that certain embarrassments to their movement are No True Scotsmen, but the fact of the matter is that Benny Hinn has been in the WOF crowd for ages.

There is also quite a lot of overlap among big name, non-denominational televangelists in regard to what camp they fall into. The line is not always clear cut. Most can fit a number of different labels, as teachings from various movements seem to cross borders fairly easily. This does give people a certain amount of plausible deniability, as we can see with people here attempting to claim Hinn isn't one of them. But he's cut from the same cloth, even if he HAS gone off the deep end in more recent years.

 

[hopeinGod]

Where church members belong today is in home group meetings, exactly as those held during the days of the First Church. These huge gatherings where there is nothing more than a one man show taking place are not God's will, neither have they ever been. The body of Christ is made of up of exactly what our earthly bodies are, there are hands and feet and arms and legs. We each play a part in the operation of the church within our gatherings, and if this is not taking place, then the church is promoting Babylonian doctrine, destructive leading, and is set for the construction of another self-willed, egotistical kingdom of error. It is time we refuse these settings once and for all, to call them what they are, abominations inconsistent with the pattern set for us in the Word of God.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Where church members belong today is in home group meetings, exactly as those held during the days of the First Church. These huge gatherings where there is nothing more than a one man show taking place are not God's will, neither have they ever been. The body of Christ is made of up of exactly what our earthly bodies are, there are hands and feet and arms and legs. We each play a part in the operation of the church within our gatherings, and if this is not taking place, then the church is promoting Babylonian doctrine, destructive leading, and is set for the construction of another self-willed, egotistical kingdom of error. It is time we refuse these settings once and for all, to call them what they are, abominations inconsistent with the pattern set for us in the Word of God.

Home group churches are certainly becoming more popular. I've never experienced one, but they sound like a good option for many people.

 

[Truthfrees]

Benny Hinn converted from Greek Orthodox to Pentecostal - Benny Hinn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He's now positively accepted by Charisma magazine - How Benny Hinn's Ministry Has Changed After Reconciling With Wife

Charisma is a critic of WOF, so for them to endorse Benny Hinn while speaking against WOF, should prove he's not WOF, he's charismatic.

Even though Benny Hinnn is NOT wof, he's also NOT an embarrassment to anyone.

He's done a lot more to help the body of CHRIST than ANY of those who attack him.

Before I was wof, I attended 2 Benny Hinn Crusades.

The first crusade I attended was so powerfully anointed that many demonized people were set free.

At the 2nd crusade I was instantly healed of a chronic condition.

The attacks against Benny Hinn are just as unfounded as those against any servant of the LORD.

IOW, there's no credible evidence of any wrongdoing on his part.

 

[Truthfrees]

I don't know what Benny Hinn teaches, but if you don't like his theology, don't listen to him anymore.

Listen to the teachers the LORD tells you to listen to.

Attacking Benny Hinn is NOT something the SPIRIT of the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY is telling you to do (Galatians 5:15).

You're indulging the sinful flesh nature (Galatians 5:19-21).

You're letting internet garbage lead you around by the nose into bitterness, offense, hatred, anger.

Draw near to the LORD with all your heart and HE will draw near to you (James 4:8).

GET rid of anger, bitterness, backbiting, strife (Ephesians 4:31).

Be filled daily with the HOLY SPIRIT (Ephesians 5:18).

Walk with a clean heart towards the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY and man (Psalm 51:10).

The LORD JESUS CHRIST TOLD you to LOVE one another (even Benny), as the LORD has loved you (John 13:34, John 15:12).

Don't follow your flesh into sin (Romans 8:13).

Follow the LORD JESUS CHRIST into the love walk (John 13:34, John 15:12).

Live a SPIRIT led life of peace, love, holiness. kindness, gentleness, etc (Galatians 5:22-25).

Come on guys, take a look at YOURSELF and how YOU can improve (2 Corinthians 13:5).

Stop looking at others and picking them apart (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:37-41).


"Do not judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves." - Matthew 7:1 AMP

"Judge not [neither pronouncing judgment nor subjecting to censure], and you will not be judged; do not condemn and pronounce guilty, and you will not be condemned and pronounced guilty; acquit and forgive and release (give up resentment, let it drop), and you will be acquitted and forgiven and released." - Luke 6:37 AMP

 

[Truthfrees]

What I do know for sure about Benny Hinn:

I used to watch Benny Hinn on TV years ago (before I was wof).

I don't remember WHAT he taught, I was more interested in the crusade soundbites he showed.

But twice I heard Benny say something I didn't like.

BOTH times I went to the LORD and asked HIM to please change Benny's attitude and theology.

Several months later (maybe a year later) I heard Benny repent of those exact 2 things I prayed about.

So I KNOW for sure that Benny Hinn has a soft heart towards the LORD and desires to do the right thing.

IF you see something you think is wrong, why don't you show Christian love and faith, and sincerely pray for Benny?

Attacking people is the devil's work (Revelation 12:10).

Start doing as the LORD told you to do and pray for others when you think they're off-track (1 John 5:16, Galatians 6:1).

 

[Simon Peter]

The attacks against Benny Hinn are just as unfounded as those against any servant of the LORD.

IOW, there's no credible evidence of any wrongdoing on his part.

Here's a Benny Hinn quote:


Benny Hinn: Yes, Lord, I'll do it. I place a curse on every man and every woman that will stretch his hand against this anointing. I curse that man who dares to speak a word against this ministry. But any man and any woman that raises his or her hand in blessing towards this ministry, I bless that man. I bless that home! I bless that family.
...
Benny Hinn: Under this anointing, the words I speak cannot fall to the ground. Under this anointing, everything I say, happens.

(Praise The Lord, Trinity Broadcasting Network, September 10, 1999)



Do you think calling down curses on Christians is not wrongdoing?


Thanks,
Simon

 

[Alive_Again]

It is as right to call these so-called men and women of God "thou whited wall," or whatever true name is fitting, such as "ambassadors of error," or whatever is best fitting, as it was for Paul to speak it to the "high priest" of his time.

This passage demonstrates why you must be led in what you do and not just spout off. You may not be aware of all of the circumstances. Paul didn't know the high priest was the one speaking. He corrected himself when he found out.

Paul had to learn to be led like everyone else. We have to lay down the right to condemn even though doctrinally, you may have some ground in the area you might be thinking about. The only thing, you might be projecting that onto someone who does not hold dear what you're rejecting and rebuking.

These televangelists have been made into idols by the blind and suffering who think they actually have something to say and give to them.

Who can see into their heart? I remember when the Lord put His finger into Hagin's palm and spoke of putting their faith in that anointing He deposited in Him (actually putting faith in the Giver of that anointing) they would partake of that benefit. He told him to preach on that anointing and tell the people to extend their faith for that benefit.

The benefit of healing in the atonement is always yours, but it often takes time for it to manifest. In the middle of your extending the faith you have to getting your actual healing, the enemy comes in to try to steal. He will if you don't primarily stay renewed.

When Norvel Hayes left the Throne of God and came back with God's instruction on how to get his daughter healed of her growths, he said he could believe God for ANYTHING, but with every minute in his physical body, the current of unbelief would intrude on his thoughts. The enemy knew to contest, so Norvel started declaring for that healing. It still took about a month for it to happen, even though he stood before God, heard Him and followed His instructions to the letter.

If he had let go and didn't fight for it (the good fight of faith), he likely would have let doubt overtake him.

When you listen to his testimony and you've got your ears on, you get a witness to the instruction on how for YOU to obtain the same way. "I'm not just Kenneth Hagin's God." The ball is in your court...

Back to the anointing, if you esteem the anointing, if you esteem in the gifting, you'll draw on it and it is available for you. The people who go to Hinn's meetings got a witness to it, but you have to make a draw on it, get out of doubt and just hope, and exercise faith. They may not have harvest faith, but if they continue to hear the Word in a setting where the glory manifests, it shortens the time to receive.

Others get it and then lose it because they didn't have the promise fully established within them. Oral Roberts knew about this. He knew most people who came into his healing line would get blessed, God would touch them, but they wouldn't see the manifestation and it wouldn't come to fruition because they weren't ready.

But I believe for all of those old ladies in Hinn's meetings and they put themselves in the environment of the anointing and they hear the Word and like those by the pool of Siloam, know that God's mercy extends even to those who cannot fully help themselves. It is far from idolatry (surely for most), and it's worth spending your plane fare and hotel to come and get to where the miracles happen. You have to push through the crowd like the woman with the issue of blood.

Whether or not they go home much closer to their healing (if they continue to press and fight) or not, is not my business, and I salute everyone who tries, having heard the Word in their spirits and endeavor to make ready.

But we who see through their charade call them what they are, and are not afraid to tell it to their faces.

Your far better off leaving alone all of the rebuke stuff since it seems to be a common rut to get into and hard to extricate yourself from after you've "indulged". Many things we don't "esteem" to be of God, really are, and we get ourselves into trouble (unnecessarily) by making it part of your "ministry". It doesn't edify, and it tends to discredit those who try to receive (and worse), those who obey God and put themselves out there in obedience to allow those few who are ready to receive.

People should primarily be concerned about judging their own fruit and start majoring in encouragement and edification. You are FAR more blessed doing that. As Paul said, "It's more blessed to give than to receive". The water that goes out to others, goes straight through you first (addictive).

From what I've heard of Benny, he knows how to exercise faith, and he believes in being filled; He knows of the primacy of the Word, and he absolutely depends on the anointing. If it's all fake, it's all old bread and I don't believe that's what he's passing out.

 

[hopeinGod]

The verse that is being very much taken to heart within today's mass meetings is 1 Corinthians 1:27
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;

This has become a kind of calling card for these individuals who think God manifests Himself in the ridiculous. I had a self proclaimed WOF pastor/teacher/evangelist/apostle tell me he has learned that it is best to not close one's thinking to anything one might consider as being foolish and/or ridiculous as it may be the avenue through which God wants to manifest healing, etc.

Both of us can imagine all sorts of foolish things that have manifested in WOF crusades and regular meetings. Here in Tampa, Browne's followers are well known for their crazy antics and displays. Maybe some of these things have taken place during a Hinn crusade, I'm not sure, but maybe they will, in time.

Sure, God has had to use an ass to speak to a person, which is one thing not well accepted or expected by the world today. But this doesn't mean he wants to continue using an ass today. (I'm not intending to call Hinn an ass. I'm merely stressing the anticipations that have come from waiting for the ridiculous and foolish.) The Charismatic church is ripe for the manifestation of any kind of foolishness.

I suppose we could both come up with quite a number of things we've seen take place in crusades and allowed to continue, without the leadership judging them as being unfit in regard to the verse that tells us to "let everything be done decently and in order."

Judgment begins first in the house of God. It's not condemning judgment I speak of, but discerning judgment, about which much of the church is drastically confused. It's not condemnation but discernment I'm using.

Jesus said "Judge not lest ye be judged," then about twenty verses later, He said, "I have many things to say and judge of you." A spiritual man judges ALL THINGS, we are also told. What I write is not meant to say there is no way for Hinn to escape his theatrics and theft of money, that there is not repentance being offered to him for taking from the poorest of the poor. There is indeed a way being offered him, but can he hear the direction God is today moving the Church? I doubt it, because it will keep him from his fortune and his one man show.

It is time these men repent and join the rest of the body AS the body of Christ, not as church idols and travelling salesmen.

The day of Kathryn Kuhlman's anointing has passed. And it is now time for us to quit following signs and get to actually know one another, pray for one another, be the vehicle through which God manifests His blessings. We must begin to let these men and women who come through town with their shows to die off, to leave us alone, as we learn to grow in ministry and relationship with one another.

 

[Andrea411]

Where church members belong today is in home group meetings, exactly as those held during the days of the First Church. These huge gatherings where there is nothing more than a one man show taking place are not God's will, neither have they ever been. The body of Christ is made of up of exactly what our earthly bodies are, there are hands and feet and arms and legs. We each play a part in the operation of the church within our gatherings, and if this is not taking place, then the church is promoting Babylonian doctrine, destructive leading, and is set for the construction of another self-willed, egotistical kingdom of error. It is time we refuse these settings once and for all, to call them what they are, abominations inconsistent with the pattern set for us in the Word of God.

When did the Holy Spirit lose control of His church? When did you become its judge? I personally don't attend (currently) don't think a person needs to belong to a denomination, I love Frank Viola ('Pagan Christianity' plus) and I wouldn't dare say the things you're claiming.

This is bazarro… you really need to take a break…. since when is anti-anything the denomination of Christ? There is no correct denomination and no one has it all bc if they did people would become jealous, evil and haughty, full of pride and puffed up with themselves and GOD WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO STAND US!!!! but to deny that He is moving across the globe using churches of all doctrines is just anti-christ… ugh. It is so disturbing to see the Lord do a new thing and have every nut job take it to the extreme…
Home churches are great and have their place… they fill in where the organized church has run afoul or where individuals don't feel they fit in but there are many more people who do well in these church buildings, who are following after Christ and are definitely part of the body of Christ and I'm guessing they don't think much about some genius on CF saying they are promoting Babylonian doctrine…

really sad… andrea

 

[Alive_Again]

Jesus said "Judge not lest ye be judged," then about twenty verses later, He said, "I have many things to say and judge of you." A spiritual man judges ALL THINGS, we are also told.

The "judge not" thing is YOU not judging (us). The things He has to judge are the things He receives judgment on. A spiritual man "walking renewed" receives judgment. He's a "dead man" so he doesn't judge. He lays down the propensity to judge another (for better or worse). He is judged by no one because he is a dead man. You can't judge a dead man.

It's the things we receive judgment on that we know and discern. Just because we receive knowledge of some thing does not mean we're to share that either when it comes to other people. The Lord does not hack His people off at the knees. If their is a need for prayer, then that is the preferred approach.

hat I write is not meant to say there is no way for Hinn to escape his theatrics and theft of money, that there is not repentance being offered to him for taking from the poorest of the poor.

If that is true then the Lord will judge him (not us). It takes a LOT of money to go on these crusades and people all over the world are getting blessed at them. You'd have to be blind not to know this.

...I doubt it, because it will keep him from his fortune and his one man show.

This is the kind of stuff we're to avoid. It's not a one man show to be sure, although he primarily speaks. It's very much like K Kuhlman. Someone might have called that a "one woman" show, but far from it. It takes much prayer and angelic work in the background to accomplish meetings like that.

People make a big deal out of falling out. If you look at some of that footage, you'll see a whole row of people hit it at the same time, and you couldn't fake that. I've been to some meetings where an anointing like that was present and people flocked to be near it.

I remember the Lord warning Kenneth Hagin not to become money minded. He said many of His servants became money minded and lost the anointing. The test is in the anointing.

It is time these men repent and join the rest of the body AS the body of Christ, not as church idols and travelling salesmen.

I remember getting rebuked through a prophet who knew nothing about how I spent my last weekend in my disappointment about the "disappearance" of the church certain nights of the week. "Don't judge My church!" Leave it alone. You'd be a lot happier not to carry the load of this and no doubt other things in the church and just focus on the refreshing things of the Spirit of God.

The day of Kathryn Kuhlman's anointing has passed.

Although those mantels still get passed around, new ones are issued as well. It's gong to get better not worse.

We must begin to let these men and women who come through town with their shows to die off, to leave us alone, as we learn to grow in ministry and relationship with one another.

You go where you're led, but it's a mistake to be negative about what the Lord is doing because we think differently.

 

[now faith]

The verse that is being very much taken to heart within today's mass meetings is 1 Corinthians 1:27
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;

This has become a kind of calling card for these individuals who think God manifests Himself in the ridiculous. I had a self proclaimed WOF pastor/teacher/evangelist/apostle tell me he has learned that it is best to not close one's thinking to anything one might consider as being foolish and/or ridiculous as it may be the avenue through which God wants to manifest healing, etc.

Both of us can imagine all sorts of foolish things that have manifested in WOF crusades and regular meetings. Here in Tampa, Browne's followers are well known for their crazy antics and displays. Maybe some of these things have taken place during a Hinn crusade, I'm not sure, but maybe they will, in time.

Sure, God has had to use an ass to speak to a person, which is one thing not well accepted or expected by the world today. But this doesn't mean he wants to continue using an ass today. (I'm not intending to call Hinn an ass. I'm merely stressing the anticipations that have come from waiting for the ridiculous and foolish.) The Charismatic church is ripe for the manifestation of any kind of foolishness.

I suppose we could both come up with quite a number of things we've seen take place in crusades and allowed to continue, without the leadership judging them as being unfit in regard to the verse that tells us to "let everything be done decently and in order."

Judgment begins first in the house of God. It's not condemning judgment I speak of, but discerning judgment, about which much of the church is drastically confused. It's not condemnation but discernment I'm using.

Jesus said "Judge not lest ye be judged," then about twenty verses later, He said, "I have many things to say and judge of you." A spiritual man judges ALL THINGS, we are also told. What I write is not meant to say there is no way for Hinn to escape his theatrics and theft of money, that there is not repentance being offered to him for taking from the poorest of the poor. There is indeed a way being offered him, but can he hear the direction God is today moving the Church? I doubt it, because it will keep him from his fortune and his one man show.

It is time these men repent and join the rest of the body AS the body of Christ, not as church idols and travelling salesmen.

The day of Kathryn Kuhlman's anointing has passed. And it is now time for us to quit following signs and get to actually know one another, pray for one another, be the vehicle through which God manifests His blessings. We must begin to let these men and women who come through town with their shows to die off, to leave us alone, as we learn to grow in ministry and relationship with one another.

I can respect your view in this post,thank you for a honest opinion void of malice.

 

[now faith]

Home group churches are certainly becoming more popular. I've never experienced one, but they sound like a good option for many people.

If our Gospel be hid,it is hid to those that are lost.

We are commanded to preach the Gospel to every creature.

Matthew: 5. 13. Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

[now faith]

What a dangerous thing to do,speak against God's anointed.
I choose my words carefully when I comment on ministers.

I had a conflict with a very legal man,and I posed aproblem for him,you see he was condemning me.

So I boldly pointed out some things I knew about him.
God convicted me so hard as soon as I saw him on the street again I had to go and ask his forgiveness.
Why?
Because we are commanded to overcome evil with good.
Bystanders have no idea who's right but they can tell both are wrong in a shouting match.

For those who are given much much is required.
So tonight I took time out and listened to a Benny Hinn sermon.

It was about the blood of Christ.
People were healed and as mentioned God's power moved the entire crowd and 10 rows back people were hit and falling out in the Holy Ghost.
How can I set in judgment over this man?
The firey darts of Satan attack me,how much more would he seek to destroy a minister to millions?

Look inward how many times are we accused or placed in a situation where things appear bad,and most of the time we don't know what it was!

I never watched Hinn much but I'm glad I did tonight,I will not condemn him it's way past my calling.

 

[K2K]

The verse that is being very much taken to heart within today's mass meetings is 1 Corinthians 1:27
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;

This has become a kind of calling card for these individuals who think God manifests Himself in the ridiculous. I had a self proclaimed WOF pastor/teacher/evangelist/apostle tell me he has learned that it is best to not close one's thinking to anything one might consider as being foolish and/or ridiculous as it may be the avenue through which God wants to manifest healing, etc.

Both of us can imagine all sorts of foolish things that have manifested in WOF crusades and regular meetings. Here in Tampa, Browne's followers are well known for their crazy antics and displays. Maybe some of these things have taken place during a Hinn crusade, I'm not sure, but maybe they will, in time.

Sure, God has had to use an ass to speak to a person, which is one thing not well accepted or expected by the world today. But this doesn't mean he wants to continue using an ass today. (I'm not intending to call Hinn an ass. I'm merely stressing the anticipations that have come from waiting for the ridiculous and foolish.) The Charismatic church is ripe for the manifestation of any kind of foolishness.

I suppose we could both come up with quite a number of things we've seen take place in crusades and allowed to continue, without the leadership judging them as being unfit in regard to the verse that tells us to "let everything be done decently and in order."

Judgment begins first in the house of God. It's not condemning judgment I speak of, but discerning judgment, about which much of the church is drastically confused. It's not condemnation but discernment I'm using.

Jesus said "Judge not lest ye be judged," then about twenty verses later, He said, "I have many things to say and judge of you." A spiritual man judges ALL THINGS, we are also told. What I write is not meant to say there is no way for Hinn to escape his theatrics and theft of money, that there is not repentance being offered to him for taking from the poorest of the poor. There is indeed a way being offered him, but can he hear the direction God is today moving the Church? I doubt it, because it will keep him from his fortune and his one man show.

It is time these men repent and join the rest of the body AS the body of Christ, not as church idols and travelling salesmen.

The day of Kathryn Kuhlman's anointing has passed. And it is now time for us to quit following signs and get to actually know one another, pray for one another, be the vehicle through which God manifests His blessings. We must begin to let these men and women who come through town with their shows to die off, to leave us alone, as we learn to grow in ministry and relationship with one another.

Jesus said He didn't judge, but as He heard He judged.

We are all supposed to be seeking the Lord our God and hearing His voice. There are verses in the Scriptures to be used to test the spirits, to make sure you are hearing the Lord. So we don't judge, we listen and get a judgement. That is how Jesus did it. He explained that even everything He said was from the Father. That's why He is called the Word of God.

So now, if I have questions concerning what is happening in a ministry, I can ask the Lord about it, and get a response. But if I am judging others without asking the Lord about it, then I am judging and we are not to do that.

And we are supposed to be getting our instructions from the Lord. So as to what church we should go to: we should be asking the Lord and going where He tells us. Him giving us instructions is why we call Him Lord. That is what a Lord does.

And the Lord said He would never leave us. So how is it we would say, "Kuhlman's anointing has passed"? It's not Kulman, but the Lord who gives the anointing, and He has not passed!

The Lord can do what He wants, and when He wants. And His thoughts are not our thoughts. He ways are not our ways. His foolishness is better than our best wisdom.

So I can understand why someone might say, "it is best to not close one's thinking to anything one might consider as being foolish and/or ridiculous as it may be the avenue through which God wants to manifest healing". I'm not saying something is or it isn't, but it is best to seek the Lord for a judgement and not to become a scoffer. And if the Lord tells you, 'that's not of Him and to stay clear', then do it. But if we make the judgement with out seeking the Lord, how good is our judgement?

Now I havn't been to Tampa, but I do live in Southern California, and have been to Benny Hinn Crusades. They praise Jesus Christ, they minister about Jesus Christ. Benny spends time trying to hear from the Lord before and during His ministry, and I have seen about 500 people come forward claiming to be healed by a miracle. I have talk to people who testify that God healed them there. And all this happens in the name of Jesus Christ.

Yet even then I talk to my Lord during the services and He talks to me, and what He tells me matches up with what He tells Benny. For example, I took my daughter and a man came forward with a problem. I heard the Lord tell me that He wanted to use that man in ministery, so I told my daughter what I heard. Benny delt with the man and then told the man that the Lord wanted him to come get training from Benny's ministry. That was the only person Benny told that to, and it match up what I heard and had proclaim to my daughter before he had.

So now - perhaps someone scoffs and doubts about Benny hearing from the Lord, but he hears from my Lord. Maybe none of us hear from the Lord like we should, but God testifies about Benny by the hundreds that have been instantly healed in that ministry, and by His voice. I don't expect him to be perfect. Benny is not God. But I'm impressed by someone who God decides to perform so many miracles through.

I work in a Christian healing ministry (not at all contected to Benny's) and I see God heal people in the name of Jesus Christ. I have probably seen God heal about 25 to 30 people around me, but that is a long way from the hundreds I saw get healed at one time at Benny's crusade.

Personally, I have a tough time with people scoffing and judging. Still, as for "ALL THINGS" those are the things we are told to take to God in prayer ( a conversation with God). So the spiritual man does not judge anything, but seeks the Lord and His judgement on "all things"!! That is what Jesus did and that is what we should do.

But only Jesus Christ was perfect. The rest of us fall short. That includes me. Sometimes, many times, I fall short. I might even think 'What a scoffer. I bet that person would have come against Moses if they were alive then', then I have to repent. I need to remember I make my mistakes. I need to remember we don't battle with flesh and blood, but powers, principalities, and the dark forces of this world. And I need to thank God for "ALL THINGS", which would include all people. The Lord loves the people.

 

[now faith]

Amen K2K
A very good point I have witnessed many Cancers healed family's restored afflictions removed.
Sickness gone.
In my small witness these things have happened how can we judge a gifted man?
How can we speak against another who preaches Christ?

 

[now faith]

I want to point out that though a man be gifted it is only by the will and power of God.
The miracles are done by the will of the Holy Spirit not the man.

So don't walk up to a Healer and say if you be Godly clean out that hospital!
He may go and healing occurs but not by his power but Gods.

I noticed Hinn calls for the masses to pray as well during the healing,think about that when he is criticised.

 

[Simon Peter]

How can we speak against another who preaches Christ?

And yet this is exactly what Benny Hinn does when he says:

Benny Hinn: Yes, Lord, I'll do it. I place a curse on every man and every woman that will stretch his hand against this anointing. I curse that man who dares to speak a word against this ministry. But any man and any woman that raises his or her hand in blessing towards this ministry, I bless that man. I bless that home! I bless that family.
...
Benny Hinn: Under this anointing, the words I speak cannot fall to the ground. Under this anointing, everything I say, happens.

(Praise The Lord, Trinity Broadcasting Network, September 10, 1999)


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Simon