I absolutely agree but I talk about the rise of the police state on hacker forums more than here, different subjects for different audiences. Besides, where are Christians on the rise of the police state or the food supply? That's not something limited to Christians or Christianity.
Gay marriage appears to be the big moral issue of Christianity right now; I think I made a fair estimation of what will happen
.
Christians have been MORE than active on the rise of police states and food supply - I could list several websites, organizations and ministries (one of them being "Sustainable Traditions" or "Sojourners" and many others) that all deal with the ways democracy/the opportunities to make real positive options for others have changed drastically.....
And with the food supply/police state issues, of course those things aren't limited to Christians - but on the same token, neither is LGBTQ issues and same-sex marriage. Muslims have had issue with it (even in regards to the death penalty) as well as other groups - and this really isn't something that's a new development for Christians. It has already occurred before and did before..
In example, the unambiguous position of the Fathers--in this case St. John Chrysostom--was opposing homosexual relations. Comenting on Rom. 1, St. John Chrysostom argued that homosexuality is an attack from Satan, since it divides normal relations between men and woman. That said, there was no evidence that the Fathers sought to butress Christian teaching on sexuality with changes in public policy. The Roman Empire was highly tolerant of homosexuality and Many of the emperors in Rome come immediately to mind for their lifestyles
Sophocles , one of the three great Greek tragic poets who transformed the world of plays, comes to mind - and
Alexander the Great is another - who, as epic as he was, had some serious issues with same-sex relationships.
Same with the Spartan Empire in Greece...and other Roman Emperors who were homosexual (Hadrian and Nero coming immediately to mind if my memory serves correct). You can't get past studying Roman Empire easily without realizing how much they celebrate same-sex relationships - and how that aided in their moral/social destruction. Homosexuality was just as widespread among the Romans as it was among the Greeks (a sign of which is that it was condoned even by the stolid Stoics) - and the Romans had adopted the pederasty of the Greeks (aimed, generally, at boys between the ages of 12 to 18). Sadly, there was nothing shameful about such sexual relations among Romans, if the boy was not freeborn. Slaves, both male and female, were considered property, and that included sexual property...but this later applied to adults.
And so we hear from Tacitus (56-117 AD), the great Roman historian, of the shameful sexual exploits of a string of Roman emperors from Tiberius to Nero.
In studying the Fathers, I've really not seen where they sought at all to support what the scriptures/tradition taught on Christian sexuality by ensuring that ALL OTHERS who are unsaved become as they approve via political power. Considering the times many of them lived in and how Rome itself was full of all kinds of mess, it seemed they were always more focused on what occurs within the Church rather than outside of it. and the Fathers seemed content to seek change within the Church, not via public policy.
One of the Fathers who has been coming to mind a lot for me is Tertullian - for he had a very strong example when it came to the level of involvement believers were to have and how to go about it - being active in the world's systems/governments and yet knowing that this world is NOT our ultimate home nor is it to be the ultimate focus. Tertullian was an apologist who was of the opinion that Roman politics and popular life was completely/utterly sinful and the enemy of the Church...thus leading to Tertullian choosing to approach popular culture and politics in a manner that focused on the Church resisting popular culture and the wider society at every turn (the extreme example of this being Amish communities today) - and yet he still advocated prayer/intercession be done for the leaders of his time...as seen when he
discussed Christian loyalty to the Emperor,
whoever he may be
And of course, Tertullian's opinion must be taken in context since he lived and wrote during a time of heavy persecution. The
following section from Tertullians Apology has been illuminating some of my thinking about Christian social engagement lately:
So we sojourn with you in the world, abjuring neither forum, nor shambles, nor bath, nor booth, nor workshop, nor inn, nor weekly market, nor any other places of commerce. We sail with you, and fight with you, and till the ground with you; and in like manner we unite with you in your traffickingseven in the various arts we make public property of our works for your benefit.
What Tertullian wrote in
the Apology is worth investigating when seeing concepts that help others to think about the prospects for how devotion to the Kingdom of God/loyalty to Christ defense of the Christian faith and life in the contemporary world. And of course, there are many who have had differences of thought on the matter:
That said, you'll always have Christians standing against saying homosexuality or same-sex relationships are wrong - even though they will be respectful in saying it is the right of others to practice such and still be treated with dignity rather than demeaned.....and if others assume that disagreeing with the lifestyle means one is saying that they hate someone, then those Christians will pay the consequences. Of course, others will end up with