Why dont SDA's and Sabbath keepers also keep the Feast Days of Leviticus 23 too???

[from scratch]

Of course, Paul was denouncing the heresy of Gallatianism, which is indistinguishable from Adventism.

Well with that advice, I will turn now to the Book of Romans. I probably should have read that before, since I have been to Corinth, which is purportedly where Paul wrote Romans. It's actually kind of funny: I am attending a new liturgical Church (And I attended Episcopalian for the past 15 years and cannot say enough good about them). Neither my present Church nor the Episcopalians really encourage Bible reading. Which, as you can imagine, after what I have been through, was very welcome. I have to say, that in spite of both Church's lukewarm approach to Bible reading, I have truthfully read more in the last month than in the last 30 years. And I am actually finding it incredibly fascinating, in light of the summer I spent in Greece and Italy, visiting virtually all of the towns and cities that Paul haunted: Athens, Rome, Corinth, Thessaloniki, Ephesus, Antioch, Galatia, Colossia, Phillipa, Jerusalem. I have even been to the Street called Straight in Damascus.

I highly recommend it: As I am reading through the New Testament I have some pretty strong memories of what those places looked like, and it really helps me to stay focused on the actual writing that Paul wrote for each of those places. I have actually been mesmerized by reading Paul's Epistles now. Incredible! In fact, I had some very profound spiritual experiences in a number of those places, and most especially, in Rome. I have written up a description of what happened in Rome, which 23 years later I still can never get it out of my head. It was amazing. Someday I will share it on this site. Pretty amazing part of the world over there that most Christians just do not have a first-hand basis for understanding.

And that is too bad. When I think of Paul arguing at Mars Hill, he was citing the Greek God Zeuss for at least 25 percent of his speech, denouncing Zeuss for his "unknowability," and even more ridiculous was the monument to the "Unknown God." Paul, in his flawless urban Greek, just enthralled his Greek audience. The Greeks have a strange recollection of what happened, and their point of view on the way they heard it. This strange Jew had come from many miles away just to tell them about the fulfillment of the mysterious Zeuss, which according to him happened with this half-human/half God creature that killed itself and then Resurrected itself. And then to top it all off, he tried to kill this movement off before he joined it! They were lined up 100 deep to "sign on the bottom line," and join this new movement of self-sacrifice, brotherly love, and unlimited forgiveness. The Gospel was truly Good News for them.

The Gospel spread like wildfire among the Greeks, like it never had in Jerusalem. Paul was a man with a mission. He had no time to lose.

Ya make it very hard to keep from turning green.

 

[from scratch]

Don't you think it is just astonishing how REAL and REMARKABLE Christianity is after you've been in bad religious situations? Christianity I have found is NEVER improved by anything I or anyone else adds to it. The simple Gospel needs no embellishments or add-ons. It needs no prophets or seers. No matter how much I enjoy going to church now (a lot), and how much I enjoy reading the Bible (amazingly a lot), you just can't get around that the entire Gospel is summed up in John 3:16. And then if you really want to get out of control with your religion, you can buy the whole Gospel of John in a pocketbook.

I have always said that in reality, among Churches that really teach the Gospel and focus on the Resurrection, the difference among them is more style than substance. You can go to a mind-boggling Episcopalian Cathedral with stained glass and a Bishop with a Doctorate in theology from Yale. Or you can go to a sawdust-floored revival tent with a stump-toothed hillbilly preacher with a six week Bible correspondence course under the belt. The message is pretty much the same.

The truth never ever changes. That why I love it so. Only God beats it on my list of loves.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The truth never ever changes. That why I love it so. Only God beats it on my list of loves.

The thing about God's truth is the closer you get to God the simpler your walk with him is. You don't get dragged down by a bunch of do's and don'ts at all. I find those who complicate things tend to have it wrong somehow.

 

[LarryP2]

The thing about God's truth is the closer you get to God the simpler your walk with him is. You don't get dragged down by a bunch of do's and don'ts at all. I find those who complicate things tend to have it wrong somehow.

You just now eloquently articulated why so many people "give up on the world" and become nuns and monks. You can almost see halos on some of them.

 

[from scratch]

.

 

[SAAN]

The SDA's seem to be silent since my post #472 exposing their hypocrisy

http://www.christianforums.com/t7802949-48/#post65296690

 

[from scratch]

They haven't left in the years I've been here, some get banned and others just make a new sock and try to change their posting style so as to make folks think they are a new person. I've found that people don't tend to change unless their lives are made totally miserable and the only way to be comfortable again is to change.

There is much less of them these days around there here parts. I visited their fellowship section and its virtually a ghost town.

I, from scratch leave CF.

 

[LarryP2]

I, from scratch leave CF.

Why are you leaving? Don't do it!

 

[Sophrosyne]

You just now eloquently articulated why so many people "give up on the world" and become nuns and monks. You can almost see halos on some of them.

I'm not a proponent of the nun and monk system, I don't consider them any "better" than the rest of us at all. I think a pastor of a small backwoods church that he started himself with no help from a "church" who doesn't get enough in offerings to support himself even having to work a job while taking care of his flock the one that has a brighter aura around his head that someone who gets room and board and their "job" is to do essentially the same as he is doing perhaps less than he does.
We are all called to help others around us we don't need to take a vow to make it happen. I consider some vows nuns and monks take of some organizations on the level of legalism binding them to a sort of covenant having them "keep" commandments of the group that they pledge loyalty to. I think in some circumstances nuns and monks can be similarly sucked into a group just like the SDA does throwing away freedom and reason and blindly following those above them.

 

[Sophrosyne]

There is much less of them these days around there here parts. I visited their fellowship section and its virtually a ghost town.

They will be back when the pressure on their twisted theology wanes, those who refute their arguments and endless spamming move on and they think the "coast is clear".

I, from scratch leave CF.

come back and visit soon, I'll be here I mostly hang out in blessings exchange and friendship court.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The SDA's seem to be silent since my post #472 exposing their hypocrisy

http://www.christianforums.com/t7802949-48/#post65296690

I think some of it has to do with the changes in the forum moving most of their threads to a separate sub section which reduces exposure of those who only read the general theology area. I expect either they will regroup or a new sock will be started so as to assault the forum with more of their out of context opinions of what the Bible says.

 

[LarryP2]

I think some of it has to do with the changes in the forum moving most of their threads to a separate sub section which reduces exposure of those who only read the general theology area. I expect either they will regroup or a new sock will be started so as to assault the forum with more of their out of context opinions of what the Bible says.

BTW, what is a "sock?"

They probably will regroup and come back, to the horror of the rest of us screaming "Oh no, the Seventh Day Adventists are here!" Yes they are relentless and shameless. When I was a little boy I was forced to go begging from door to door Christmas Caroling. We would sneak up to the door quietly, knock on the door and be assembled as a "happy" group with the money can held out in front. When the unwitting homeowner would open the door, we would burst into Christmas songs......Like, what are they supposed to do, other than give money, or slam the door shut? We gave them no good options. Horrible.

And if you Google "End Times Prophecy" you will "hit" on about 2,000 different spam sites put up by the Seventh Day Adventists, most of which will not be clear who put it there. Their prophecy seminars are beyond belief. A whole week of literally thousands of sentence fragments - sometimes just two words from one verse! - stitched together, all of which predictably point forward to the SDA Church being the only "Remnant Church out there." And they have a terrifying multi-media production with ungodly 9-headed, skyscraper-sized beasts, with huge fangs snacking on "Babylon" Sunday-keeping Christians. I was about 9 when I went to one, where I got so freaked out I peed my pants. We lived right next door to some Catholics. One of their presentations has the Pope slowly morphing into a multi-headed, multi-armed Peyote Demon-looking monster, and here I was literally next door to the spawn of Satan!

They are very clever: They come on here with the polished bait and switch con-game about the Sabbath, which has just enough plausibility to lure in Biblically ignorant Christians. I mean, its in the 10 Commandments, right? And Jesus kept it, right? With their scripture sculpting talents, they overlook the "Big Picture" that is presented in the New Testament, and fixate on irrelevant minutiae specifically designed to evoke fear and guilt. "You are a Christian, right? How come you don't keep the Sabbath then? Do you think God approves your breaking the Ten Commandments? yada yada yada. "

On "Scratch's" prodding, I just now read the entire Book of Romans, without Adventist "Reading Goggles" on for the first time in my life. Romans absolutely demolishes the case for Sabbath-keeping, plain and simple. Yet their talented Scripture-sculptors twist it around completely backwards. I used to HATE the Book of Romans, because I was told that it was a "difficult book" where I needed special skills and assistance in getting through it. What a load of horsesh!t! It is only "difficult" if you insist on making it say the opposite of what it actually does say! Now I know the REAL reason they warned us against it. In reality, Romans is a breath of fresh air, giving both Jewish and Gentile Christians unbelievable amounts of freedom from sin AND and from the Mosaic Law AND a complete confidence in the atonement of Christ. No wonder they warned us against it.

 

[Sophrosyne]

BTW, what is a "sock?"

You can have several accounts in CF (no limit that I know of) and switch between them just like putting on another sock. There are some that come to debate and when people get tired of their arguments they entirely ignore them so they create a new account and change their way of posting some with new arguments and then get the same people's attention. We have had one at least that had been banned before several times come back under another account perhaps using another internet connection to evade bans and it takes awhile for those in charge to be sure that it is the case before they again ban the person.

They probably will regroup and come back, to the horror of the rest of us screaming "Oh no, the Seventh Day Adventists are here!" Yes they are relentless and shameless. When I was a little boy I was forced to go begging from door to door Christmas Caroling. We would sneak up to the door quietly, knock on the door and be assembled as a "happy" group with the money can held out in front. When the unwitting homeowner would open the door, we would burst into Christmas songs......Like, what are they supposed to do, other than give money, or slam the door shut? We gave them no good options. Horrible.

And if you Google "End Times Prophecy" you will "hit" on about 2,000 different spam sites put up by the Seventh Day Adventists, most of which will not be clear who put it there. Their prophecy seminars are beyond belief. A whole week of literally thousands of sentence fragments - sometimes just two words from one verse! - stitched together, all of which predictably point forward to the SDA Church being the only "Remnant Church out there." And they have a terrifying multi-media production with ungodly 9-headed, skyscraper-sized beasts, with huge fangs snacking on "Babylon" Sunday-keeping Christians. I was about 9 when I went to one, where I got so freaked out I peed my pants. We lived right next door to some Catholics. One of their presentations has the Pope slowly morphing into a multi-headed, multi-armed Peyote Demon-looking monster, and here I was literally next door to the spawn of Satan!

They are very clever: They come on here with the polished bait and switch con-game about the Sabbath, which has just enough plausibility to lure in Biblically ignorant Christians. I mean, its in the 10 Commandments, right? And Jesus kept it, right? With their scripture sculpting talents, they overlook the "Big Picture" that is presented in the New Testament, and fixate on irrelevant minutiae specifically designed to evoke fear and guilt. "You are a Christian, right? How come you don't keep the Sabbath then? Do you think God approves your breaking the Ten Commandments? yada yada yada. "

On "Scratch's" prodding, I just now read the entire Book of Romans, without Adventist "Reading Goggles" on for the first time in my life. Romans absolutely demolishes the case for Sabbath-keeping, plain and simple. Yet their talented Scripture-sculptors twist it around completely backwards. I used to HATE the Book of Romans, because I was told that it was a "difficult book" where I needed special skills and assistance in getting through it. What a load of horsesh!t! It is only "difficult" if you insist on making it say the opposite of what it actually does say! Now I know the REAL reason they warned us against it. In reality, Romans is a breath of fresh air, giving both Jewish and Gentile Christians unbelievable amounts of freedom from sin AND and from the Mosaic Law AND a complete confidence in the atonement of Christ. No wonder they warned us against it.

Herein lies the problem.... I don't think the "average" SDA reads the Bible without the "Ellen" lens on their eyes instead of reading it for what it actually says they try and make the bible match what they are taught. It is what is called Eisegis. Trying to convince people who are essentially taught a way to think to open up their minds and think for themselves for once is very hard thing to do.

 

[LarryP2]

Herein lies the problem.... I don't think the "average" SDA reads the Bible without the "Ellen" lens on their eyes instead of reading it for what it actually says they try and make the bible match what they are taught. It is what is called Eisegis. Trying to convince people who are essentially taught a way to think to open up their minds and think for themselves for once is very hard thing to do.

Honestly? I didn't leave the SDA Church because of any doctrinal disagreements that I recall. I went through 12 years of their school system, and basically ignored all of the Bible classes as good as I could. All I knew was that I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, and feeling awful and horrible and full of guilt and self-recriminations trying to follow all of the ridiculous and absurd things they require people to do. I more or less fled for my life and to preserve my sanity, without knowing exactly why. And until the internet came along, I really never thought about it much. All I knew was I had a lot of behaviors that I detested, and could never come up with anything that would help me to stop doing them.

Well now I know why. For 22 years, I belonged to a heretical cult that is based completely on lies. The entire foundation of the church is nothing but lies. I just wrote a post on a thread where a Catholic was complaining about anti-Catholic hatred, which sparked a lot of bad memories. All of a sudden, I went "surfing" and sure enough, SDA's hatred of Catholics, which formed many of their major doctrinal lies, is itself completely founded on someone else's extremely poor scholarship and outright lies! And to top it all off, the founding "Prophet" of the SDA cult actually plagiarized the lies of the previous person!

There is not one single major doctrine of the Church that has not been proven to be completely unbiblical by their own theologians. Those guys are real heroes, in my book, and stand to lose everything by standing up to the cult and telling the truth.
So I realized that the only way of getting out of the SDA Church, you must flee for your life. I did. And now I am trying to fix the damage. Writing it out like this really helps.

Relentlessly telling the truth.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Honestly? I didn't leave the SDA Church because of any doctrinal disagreements that I recall. I went through 12 years of their school system, and basically ignored all of the Bible classes as good as I could. All I knew was that I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, and feeling awful and horrible and full of guilt and self-recriminations trying to follow all of the ridiculous and absurd things they require people to do. I more or less fled for my life and to preserve my sanity, without knowing exactly why. And until the internet came along, I really never thought about it much. All I knew was I had a lot of behaviors that I detested, and could never come up with anything that would help me to stop doing them.

It is typical that indoctrinated people don't tend to get out of where they are because someone proves them wrong, but God can draw them out via the Holy Spirit by making them realize something is wrong in itself. The Law is all about guilt, it is like a bright white light shiny on a clean lawn of snow and regardless of where you step you will always leave a footprint in it thus scarring the perfection that was once seen. The only way to get back the perfect snow is for it to snow more on top of it, or renew the perfection that was and Jesus is the only way the Law can only post signs that say keep off the snow but life has it impossible to get anything done without walking on it somehow.

Well now I know why. For 22 years, I belonged to a heretical cult that is based completely on lies. The entire foundation of the church is nothing but lies. I just wrote a post on a thread where a Catholic was complaining about anti-Catholic hatred, which sparked a lot of bad memories. All of a sudden, I went "surfing" and sure enough, SDA's hatred of Catholics, which formed many of their major doctrinal lies, is itself completely founded on someone else's extremely poor scholarship and outright lies! And to top it all off, the founding "Prophet" of the SDA cult actually plagiarized the lies of the previous person!

There is not one single major doctrine of the Church that has not been proven to be completely unbiblical by their own theologians. Those guys are real heroes, in my book, and stand to lose everything by standing up to the cult and telling the truth.
So I realized that the only way of getting out of the SDA Church, you must flee for your life. I did. And now I am trying to fix the damage. Writing it out like this really helps.

I don't hate catholics, but find catholicism is full of problems theologically. I am fine with them believing what they do but when they do similarly as the SDA do and proclaim not believing as they do casts doubt upon our walk as a Christian I draw the line. I find it ironic the SDA hate catholicism when IMO they are MORE like Catholics than they are like Protestants. Catholics are taught to believe in what their church teaches and tends to put the Bible second in that fashion just as SDA does. Catholics are taught that works are important and in some instances mandatory to salvation just as the SDA equate works (sabbath keeping, 10 commandments, etc) as required for salvation. SDA have Ellen as their prophet while the Catholic (Roman) has the Pope and magistrum etc. Protestantism tends to shy away from these idealogies rather than embrace them and tends to accept other protestants of whom don't demand they be the "same" be default. We see Catholics and SDAs tend to not be as accepting of those outside of their group when it comes to belief.

 

[LarryP2]

I don't hate catholics, but find catholicism is full of problems theologically. I am fine with them believing what they do but when they do similarly as the SDA do and proclaim not believing as they do casts doubt upon our walk as a Christian I draw the line. I find it ironic the SDA hate catholicism when IMO they are MORE like Catholics than they are like Protestants. Catholics are taught to believe in what their church teaches and tends to put the Bible second in that fashion just as SDA does. Catholics are taught that works are important and in some instances mandatory to salvation just as the SDA equate works (sabbath keeping, 10 commandments, etc) as required for salvation. SDA have Ellen as their prophet while the Catholic (Roman) has the Pope and magistrum etc. Protestantism tends to shy away from these idealogies rather than embrace them and tends to accept other protestants of whom don't demand they be the "same" be default. We see Catholics and SDAs tend to not be as accepting of those outside of their group when it comes to belief.

I am not attracted by the Catholic faith, although I think their medical and educational ministries are second to none. Just the Jesuits alone have an astounding 1,800 colleges that it has founded, many of them elite. And the Catholic Hospital system is the largest in the world. Its amazing what they have done through incredible hardship. And I have been impressed with their humility as of late, by the members posting on this site.

They simply do not deserve to be smeared and slandered as the "harlot of Babylon" like Adventism teaches. Dislike the Pope all you like, but it is just unacceptable to me that they smear and slander him as the "Anti-Christ." As far as the comparisons between Catholic and Adventism, I have noticed that the Catholics are FAR more forgiving when their members sin. And there is something to be said about a Priest that dispenses forgiveness in a physical, tangible way. There is nothing even REMOTELY similar to that in Adventism. Adventism, you just live with the knowledge, with no way out, that you are probably going to hell, no matter how much good you do. It is just an insane asylum. You are just left alone with nowhere to turn. You know good and well if you had a problem with sin, and you confided in someone, out on your ear you go.

 

[Sophrosyne]

They simply do not deserve to be smeared and slandered as the "harlot of Babylon" like Adventism teaches. Dislike the Pope all you like, but it is just unacceptable to me that they smear and slander him as the "Anti-Christ." As far as the comparisons between Catholic and Adventism,

I don't dislike the pope at all, I just don't think much more about him than any pastor of any large church. I agree that the SDA just plain seem to show beyond contempt for those who refuse to bow to their organization It is one thing to disagree another to outright to denigrate an entire organization to profit themselves.

I have noticed that the Catholics are FAR more forgiving when their members sin. And there is something to be said about a Priest that dispenses forgiveness in a physical, tangible way. There is nothing even REMOTELY similar to that in Adventism. Adventism, you just live with the knowledge, with no way out, that you are probably going to hell, no matter how much good you do. It is just an insane asylum. You are just left alone with nowhere to turn. You know good and well if you had a problem with sin, and you confided in someone, out on your ear you go.

I agree about the differences in forgiveness between the two and will add that adventists seem to be harsher on non adventist than their own flock forgiving them for breaking the Sabbath each week while damning the rest of us for not even trying.

 

[LarryP2]

I agree about the differences in forgiveness between the two and will add that adventists seem to be harsher on non adventist than their own flock forgiving them for breaking the Sabbath each week while damning the rest of us for not even trying.

After reading the Book of Romans, I can't imagine a more absurd, wacko fetish than which day you worship on. Can you imagine believing in a God that would even CARE about such a trivial thing?

"Oh yeah, 200 plus people vanish without a trace on an airliner.......BUT YOU, by golly, I saw it when you turned off the TV five minutes after sundown on Friday night."

Atheism is a BIG improvement over Adventism.

 

[from scratch]

You can have several accounts in CF (no limit that I know of) and switch between them just like putting on another sock. There are some that come to debate and when people get tired of their arguments they entirely ignore them so they create a new account and change their way of posting some with new arguments and then get the same people's attention. We have had one at least that had been banned before several times come back under another account perhaps using another internet connection to evade bans and it takes awhile for those in charge to be sure that it is the case before they again ban the person.

Herein lies the problem.... I don't think the "average" SDA reads the Bible without the "Ellen" lens on their eyes instead of reading it for what it actually says they try and make the bible match what they are taught. It is what is called Eisegis. Trying to convince people who are essentially taught a way to think to open up their minds and think for themselves for once is very hard thing to do.

Upon reading the forums and dealing with them in real life, I can't believe they read the Bible at all. I think their proof texting shows this to be a reality. One such person who got banned under at least 3 different accounts told me they never heard of John 15:10. Hey that's on the very next page from their favorite John 14:15 which avoids the issues caused by my favorite response of John 15:10.

 

[from scratch]

I am not attracted by the Catholic faith, although I think their medical and educational ministries are second to none. Just the Jesuits alone have an astounding 1,800 colleges that it has founded, many of them elite. And the Catholic Hospital system is the largest in the world. Its amazing what they have done through incredible hardship. And I have been impressed with their humility as of late, by the members posting on this site.

They simply do not deserve to be smeared and slandered as the "harlot of Babylon" like Adventism teaches. Dislike the Pope all you like, but it is just unacceptable to me that they smear and slander him as the "Anti-Christ." As far as the comparisons between Catholic and Adventism, I have noticed that the Catholics are FAR more forgiving when their members sin. And there is something to be said about a Priest that dispenses forgiveness in a physical, tangible way. There is nothing even REMOTELY similar to that in Adventism. Adventism, you just live with the knowledge, with no way out, that you are probably going to hell, no matter how much good you do. It is just an insane asylum. You are just left alone with nowhere to turn. You know good and well if you had a problem with sin, and you confided in someone, out on your ear you go.

Keep reading the forum and you'll find lots more than RCC being smeared.