Why dont SDA's and Sabbath keepers also keep the Feast Days of Leviticus 23 too???

[BobRyan]

.

I have dug no pit for myself--I stand by Paul, and all of his books, including Hebrews, as I stand by all of the bible--not just the OT or just the New Test, but all of it. The old testament is what was used to bring the first christians into the church. They, like Christ, studied those books and it is those books that led the first Christians to Jesus.

Joh 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
2Ti 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The new testament had not yet been written, though the disciples letters were being passed around.

It was what the Ethiopian was reading when Philip explained who the scriptures were talking about and was baptized right then.

Somebody complained about my different font sizes--I have no control over that, it happens when I copy/paste----In fact I don't know enough to change the font sizes yet!

Excellent points - but there is an "any old excuse will do" response by those who remain at war with the Law of God that will simply by pass the text of scripture to continue their opposition to the Law of God.

in Romans 8:6-8 Paul says that their war against the Law of God is the only option apart from repentance.

And of course in Mark 7:6-13 Jesus makes the case that the OT Ten Commandments are the "Word of God" that church-tradition cannot make void.

So also in Eph 6:1-3 does Paul point out the that UNIT of the TEN Commandments remains valid for the saints in the NT.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

Excellent points - but there is an "any old excuse will do" response by those who remain at war with the Law of God that will simply by pass the text of scripture to continue their opposition to the Law of God.

The Law of God is the Gospel, the Resurrection and the completely finished work on the Cross. That IS Christianity. The SDA Church has been at war with this simple Gospel since its founding. There's no way the SDA Church could possibly denigrate the Gospel and the Resurrection any more than it has. Every single doctrine of the SDA Church, including its facetious mono-focus on its grossly-unbiblical and Americanized Process Cheese "Sabbath" is specifically designed to deceitfully draw gullible Christians away from their only real hope: The Resurrection, the Gospel, and Jesus Christ's once and forever finished work on the Cross. NOTHING can add or improve these reason's for Christianity's very existence. You can only distract from it by adding to it. This the Adventists have done. Adventism teaches the exact same "another Gospel" that Paul warned about in Galatians.

The Resurrection is the essence of Christianity. Nothing else in the Bible makes sense without the Christian's proper focus and understanding of the Resurrection. Everything in the Bible revolves around the Resurrection. The essence of Adventism revolves around the Sabbath, the ridiculous and unbiblical Investigative Judgment, Ellen White, the absurd fiasco of 1844, and the silly "Remnant Church" doctrine.

Once Adventists have deflected the focus of gullible Christians away from the Resurrection, they have misled God's children about the central point of the Bible. In the Bible, there is NOTHING else even remotely being in second place compared to the Resurrection. Adventists throw in a grossly dishonest interpretation of Colossians 2:14-17 and the Book of Gallatians. The Book of Gallatians specifically condemns this rank Adventist heresy: Sabbath-Keeping. That is the universal opinion of Christian Bible scholars. For the Adventists to deceitfully deflect attention away from this fact tells you everything you need to know about this organization. I have gone through the Adventist's postings on this site, and they mention the Resurrection almost NEVER.

To put it simply, the Book of Gallatians and Colossians 2:14-17 have NEVER been interpreted by any reputable Bible Scholar the way that Adventists interpret it. Adventists have interpreted these crystal clear texts to mean the OPPOSITE of what they actually say. For 2,000 years, Christianity has closely followed Paul's demand to cease observing the Old Testament law and that it was fulfilled on the Cross. Christianity rejected the Sabbath within a week of the Resurrection and celebrated Easter at the one year anniversary of the Resurrection. And they did so in obedience to the specific commands of the Apostles. Jesus founded his church on St. Peter. Adventists teach that Christianity has been misled from the beginning because it has always worshiped the Resurrected Christ on Sunday, Resurrection Day. Just how likely is it that Christ would allow his own Church to be swept away by heresy from its very beginning? Especially given that he repeatedly appeared to the Apostles on Sunday? Did Christ abandon his leadership role in the Body of Christ when at the Council of Jerusalem - just 17 years after his death - the Apostles unequivocally ruled that the Gentile Christians would not be bound by the Mosaic Law? Of course he didn't. Adventists simply dishonestly ignore the ruling of the Council of Jerusalem and pretend that it never happened. Usually, you cannot even get them to ADMIT that the Council of Jerusalem happened!

Adventists have NEVER addressed the undisputed position of the Eastern Orthodox Church that Sabbath keeping ended with the Resurrection. NEVER You simply cannot get more deceitful and dishonest than that. They deceitfully focus on the Papacy, which had absolutely NOTHING to do with the early Christian Church's understanding that Christ's death and resurrection made the Sabbath obsolete. History could not be any clearer than that point. Adventism's own Sabbath scholars unequivocally reject the Church's ridiculous and bizarre deception that the Papacy did it!

Every deceitful core Adventist doctrine has been annihilated by its own theologians and Bible scholars in the last 30 years. The Sabbath fairy tale about the Pope instituting Sunday worship, as taught by Ellen White, has been savagely demolished by Adventist theologian Samuele Bacchiochi. Adventists on this thread just pretend to ignore that and NEVER address it, in spite of it repeatedly being drawn to their attention! The Investigative Judgment, the Remnant Church fraud, the 2300 days and 1844 fiasco have been utterly trashed by Adventist's own top theologians: Raymond Cottrell and Desmond Ford. Again, these facts have been placed on this thread and the Adventists as per their usual practice just ignore what their own high-ranking theologians say! The despicable history of covering up the fraudulent unbiblical basis for the Adventist Church's insane Investigative Judment that Cottrell has summarized indicates an entire organization deeply-committed to massive deception.

And finally, both Walter Rea and Morris Veltman, while employed by the Church, became aghast at the unbelievably-massive literary theft of Ellen White, most of which were other people's writings that she deceitfully claimed came from her visions. Rea worked diligently for the Adventist Church for 36 years, and was fired for telling the truth! Two Adventists doing the work that their own church commissioned them to do proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Ellen White was an inveterate thief, a pathological liar, and a colossal fraud. Again, Adventists simply skip over those findings without responding.

Ellen White deceitfully and frequently violated the stringent Biblical prohibitions against theft and dishonesty for most of her life. Adventists continue to benefit from Ellen White's colossal thefts to this day, and have NEVER officially admitted, let alone apologized for the extent of her theft and dishonesty. Legally speaking, they are accessories after the fact. And now Adventists have the gall to come on to a Christian website and accuse Christians of "being at war with God's Law!" Their own founding prophet violated two of the key Commandments on virtually a daily basis for her entire life. THAT is a war with God's commandments!

Finally, honest Adventist Theologians have been discussing quietly for many many years the necessity of eliminating everything out of the New Testament written by St. Paul if the Church is going to have any viable basis for its continued existence. They know good and well that the Adventist fixation on the Sabbath is grossly unbiblical as long as Paul remains part of the Canon. Honest theologians simply cannot tolerate the Church's deceitful interpretation of Paul's absolutely clear statements that the Old Testament Law was nailed to the Cross. Paul could not have made himself any clearer that the Sabbath was ENDED at the cross. Adventist theologians, if they have an ounce of honesty, will not be able to perpetuate the Church's laughable interpretation of Paul.

The Adventist Church eventually will become indistinguishable from Messianic Judaism. Again, the Adventist posters on this thread have simply not addressed this profound volcano of future massive change that is slowly building under their utterly trashed and fraudulent theological superstructure. As it stands now, Adventist's own theologians have simply eliminated any reason for the Church's existence. Adventists describe Christianity's laser-like focus on the Resurrection as "remain[ing] at war with the Law of God." To an Adventist, focusing on the Resurrection - the central fact of human history and Christianity - equates to ignoring the Sabbath. That's why Adventists have so strongly denounced Easter. For Adventists, the Sabbath clearly outranks the Resurrection in importance. Adventists have repeatedly, horrifyingly and viciously smeared devout Christians - who celebrate the Lord Jesus Christ's Resurrection every Sunday and every Easter - by calling them the "harlot of Babylon" and the "Apostate Daughters of the harlot of Babylon." Their intense, unhinged, deranged hatred of the Catholic Church knows no bounds. Adventists have simply been at war with Christianity's fixation on the Resurrection since its founding. And they do so for one reason: Christianity has followed the instructions of the Apostles from the beginning, and rejected the Jewish Sabbath within a week after the Resurrection. That is precisely why the Church's theologians will eventually win their War against St. Paul. The Church will cease to exist if they don't. The Church has no reason to continue to exist with Paul in the Bible. Eventually, the Epistles of Paul will be removed from the Adventist "Bible," which already has almost as much Ellen White in it as it does St. Paul.

Eventually the Adventist Bible will be the three synaptic Gospels, massive additional infusions of Ellen White, and the Old Testament as it completely severs any lingering ties with Christianity. The days of Adventism of plausibly claiming to be Christian are numbered. They have already largely rewritten the Bible, it is called the "Clear Word Bible," although Adventists deceitfully claim it is not the Bible:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/clear_word.htm
http://carm.org/clear-word-bible-intro

Beware of these wolves in sheep's clothes!

 

[mmksparbud]

This whole thing would be laughable if it weren't so sad.----Once again--the entire book of Hebrews states over and over that the blood of Christ is now the new covenant, no animal sacrifices are needed anymore--period. Anything that pointed to the death of Christ is over and done with.
It's very simple. Jesus is now our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek--
Now you want to say Paul did not write Hebrews and nobody knows who did---Fine--Whatever you say--It doesn't matter who wrote it, it is what it says that's important!!
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is all important--you're the ones who say we don't think it is, which is not true. Without the resurrection, there would be nothing for anyone--no resurrection of Christ=no salvation for anyone. We wouldn't even be here for if He had not resurrected there would be no reason for this planet to exist, and if we were allowed to continue as we have--then there would be no hope for anyone to do anything but die--no one would be going to heaven and no one would going to hell either--it is ludicris beyond belief to think that we place no importance on His resurrection--somebody stayed up all night coming up with that?? That's insane!!

READ IT ALL!!

Heb 8:1 Now a summary over the things being said: We have such a High Priest, who sat down on the right of the throne of the Majesty in Heaven, Psa. 110:1
Heb 8:2 Minister of the Holy of Holies, and of the true tabernacle which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is set in place to offer both gifts and sacrifices; from which it is necessary for this One also to have something which He may offer.
Heb 8:4 For if indeed He were on earth, He would not even be a priest, there being those priests offering gifts according to the Law,
Heb 8:5 who serve the pattern of and shadow of heavenly things, even as Moses was divinely warned, being about to make the tabernacle: For He says, "See that you make all things according to the pattern being shown to you in the mount." Exodus 25:40
Heb 8:6 But now He has gotten a more excellent ministry, also by so much as He is a Mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first was faultless, place would not have been sought for a second.

Heb 9:1 Truly, then, the first covenant also had ordinances of service, and the earthly holy place.
Heb 9:2 For the first tabernacle was prepared, in which was both the lampstand and the table, and the setting out of the loaves, which is called holy.
Heb 9:3 But behind the second veil is a tabernacle, being called Holy of Holies,
Heb 9:4 having a golden altar of incense, and the ark of the covenant covered around on all sides with gold, in which was the golden pot having the manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;
Heb 9:5 and above it the cherubs of glory overshadowing the mercy-seat (about which now is not enough time to speak piece by piece).
Heb 9:6 And these having been prepared thus, the priests go into the first tabernacle through all, completing the services.
Heb 9:7 But into the second the high priest goes alone once in the year, not without blood, which he offers for himself and the ignorances of the people;
Heb 9:8 the Holy Spirit signifying by this that the way of the Holy of Holies has not yet been made manifest, the first tabernacle still having been standing;
Heb 9:9 which was a parable for the present time, according to which both gifts and sacrifices are offered, but as regards conscience, not being able to perfect the one serving,
Heb 9:10 but only on foods and drinks, and various washings, and fleshly ordinances, until the time of setting things right has been imposed.

Heb 9:11 But Christ having appeared as a High Priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation,
Heb 9:12 nor through the blood of goats and of calves, but through His own blood, He entered once for all into the Holy of Holies, having procured everlasting redemption.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and goats, and ashes of a heifer sprinkling those having been defiled, sanctifies to the purity of the flesh,
Heb 9:14 by how much more the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God), will purify your conscience from dead works, to serve the living God!
Heb 9:15 And because of this He is Mediator of a new covenant, so that, death having occurred for redemption of transgressions under the first covenant, those being called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a covenant is, the death of him having covenanted must be offered.
Heb 9:17 For a covenant is affirmed over those dead, since it never has force when he who has covenanted is living.
Heb 9:18 From which neither the first covenant was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when every command had been spoken according to Law by Moses to all the people, having taken the blood of the calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and he sprinkled both the scroll and all the people,
Heb 9:20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God enjoined to you." Ex. 24:8
Heb 9:21 And he likewise sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the service vessels with the blood.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are purified by blood according to the Law; and apart from shedding of blood no remission occurs.
Heb 9:23 Then it was needful for the figures of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these; but the heavenly things themselves by better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ did not enter into the Holy of Holies made by hands, types of the true things, but into Heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf,
Heb 9:25 not that He should often offer Himself even as the high priest enters into the Holy of Holies year by year with blood of others;
Heb 9:26 since He must often have suffered from the foundation of the world. But now once for all, at the completion of the ages, He has been manifested for putting away of sin through the sacrifice of Himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is reserved to men once to die, and after this, Judgment;
Heb 9:28 so Christ having been once offered "to bear the sins of many," Christ shall appear a second time without sin to those expecting Him for salvation. Isa. 53:12

Heb 10:4 for it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
Heb 10:5 For this reason, coming into the world, He says, "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but You prepared a body for Me.
Heb 10:6 You did not delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices concerning sins."
Heb 10:7 "Then I said, Lo, I come, in the heading of the Book it was written concerning Me, to do Your will, O God." LXX-Psa. 39:7 -9; MT-Psa. 40:6 -8
Heb 10:8 Above, saying, "You did not desire nor were pleased with sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and sacrifices concerning sins," (which are offered according to the Law),
Heb 10:9 then He said, "Lo, I come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first in order that He may set up the second;

 

[LarryP2]

"The resurrection of Jesus Christ is all important--you're the ones who say we don't think it is, which is not true. Without the resurrection, there would be nothing for anyone--no resurrection of Christ=no salvation for anyone."

The Resurrection is so important that Christians instantly abandoned Sabbath Keeping. It is CLEAR that Sabbath Keeping can only distract from the Resurrection. You cannot add to the Resurrection. Adventists try to "add" to the Resurrection by keeping the Sabbath, and they have only distracted from it and diminished it.

Ellen White and Adventism's Sabbath scholars have NEVER disputed or even mentioned Eastern Orthodoxy's contention: Christians stopped keeping the Sabbath at Christ's Resurrection. They had just witnessed the most amazing event in human history! It is utterly and completely laughable they would have continued to keep the Sabbath after seeing something so earth-shattering as that. The completely and total ABSENCE of any discussion of that claim of Eastern Orthodoxy by Adventism is simply alarming and shocking. Not ONCE does Ellen White ever even mention Eastern Orthodoxy! NEVER! Don't believe me. Look it up for yourself. I have run literally hundreds of Google searches trying to find a single shred of evidence that Ellen White ever mentioned Eastern Orthodoxy. Its contention is completely unmentioned and unrefuted by Adventism's founding prophet. That is a devastating fact of immense historically importance. It is just unbelievable that Adventism simply ignores a 2,000 year old, 300 million member Church. Unbelievable.

Judaism unequivocally rejected the Resurrection. As a direct result, they faithfully keep the Sabbath. This is known as "cause and effect." It really is that simple. They keep the Sabbath specifically because they deny the Messiah. That are practically screaming that idea from the rooftops when they keep the Sabbath.

Take your pick: Celebrate the Resurrection or commemorate the Sabbath. If you keep the Sabbath, you are saying that Christ did not fulfill the Law. You are saying he lied. The Apostles made this absolutely, 100 percent crystal clear at the AD 50 Council of Jerusalem. They drew a very sharp and bright line. You are either with the Resurrection or you are with the Sabbath. Adventists resolutely refuse to discuss the Council of Jerusalem. Can you understand why?

Choose wisely.

 

[mmksparbud]

"The resurrection of Jesus Christ is all important--you're the ones who say we don't think it is, which is not true. Without the resurrection, there would be nothing for anyone--no resurrection of Christ=no salvation for anyone."

The Resurrection is so important that Christians instantly abandoned Sabbath Keeping. It is CLEAR that Sabbath Keeping can only distract from the Resurrection. You cannot add to the Resurrection. Adventists try to "add" to the Resurrection by keeping the Sabbath, and they have only distracted from it and diminished it.

Judaism unequivocally rejected the Resurrection. Without question, they faithfully keep the Sabbath. This is known as "cause and effect."

Take your pick: Celebrate the Resurrection or commemorate the Sabbath. If you keep the Sabbath, you are saying that Christ did not fulfill the Law. You are saying he lied. The Apostles made this absolutely crystal clear at the AD 50 Council of Jerusalem. They drew a very bright line. You are either with the Resurrection or you are with the Sabbath.

Choose wisely.

Totally and completely ridiculous--and you obviously did not read Hebrews--We do not have to choose and the bible does not say so--we honor both--period. I could care less what you think I should do!! The old covenant was the blood of animals, the new is the blood of Jesus--simple.
Whatever you think is crystal clear, obviously isn't. Christ's blood is the new covenant, nothing to do with the 10 commandments--they are still in effect and written in our hearts--and it's with our hearts full of love for God and the cleansing blood of Christ that we obey.--You want to believe something else--go right ahead. We look forward to His second coming, which wouldn't be happening without a resurrection.

 

[VictorC]

This whole thing would be laughable if it weren't so sad.----Once again--the entire book of Hebrews states over and over that the blood of Christ is now the new covenant, no animal sacrifices are needed anymore--period. Anything that pointed to the death of Christ is over and done with.

This is the fourth time that you've cornered yourself. You acknowledge that the symptoms mandated by the old covenant are gone, but you don't acknowledge that God's disposition ended the ordinances that drove the symptoms. When the ordinances of the old covenant remain (as you claim they do) then the burnt offerings and requisite animal sacrifices come right back - every day, every week, every month, and every year. Treating symptoms has no effect on the core reason those symptoms exist. Because you don't recognize this, you're oblivious to the conclusion you forced upon yourself. Read it (yet) again:

Why??---Christs death did away with animal sacrifices--keeping those requires animal sacrifices--Christs blood is the new covenant and all those laws requiring animal sacrfices have been done away with

Here you openly confess that the Sabbath(s) has(have) been "done away with".

--the 10 commandments as written by the hand of God do not require animal blood-

And the Law Spoken by the Voice of God demands animal sacrifice, including the weekly Sabbath.

--We keep answering the question, but you keep asking the same question---boring!

All we see is that you have dispensed with ALL of God's Sabbaths and Holy Days given in Judaism, but can't quite acknowledge Christianity's affirmation of God's redemption from the covenant from Mount Sinai, which Moses called the Ten Commandments (Deuteronomy 4:13).
Adding insult to injury, remember that each time you refer to Exodus 20 this is the Oral declaration of the covenant from Mount Sinai. It wasn't until later that God wrote the contents of His covenant onto tablets of stone and handed them to Moses. And yet you dismiss God's Oral commandments through Moses on one hand, and embrace His Oral commandments on the other.

This illustrates your inconsistency in handling the old covenant Christianity isn't even bound to, as was pointed out before:

Your latest claim is that you can divide the Law, and just abide by the Ten Commandments and dispense with the rest. Well, you dismissed the burnt offerings and the requisite sacrifice of two lambs on the sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10). But we know that Exodus 35:3 prohibits lighting a fire and this is the reason Adventists don't cook on the sabbath. We also know that Leviticus 23:3 is where the call for a convocation on the sabbath is found, and is the reason Adventists go assemble in church. By your dismissal of the burnt offerings mandated to keep the sabbath HOLY (Exodus 20:8), you've also dismissed any reason to go to church on the sabbath - the Ten Commandments doesn't say anything about a convocation. The call for Holiness according to the Law accepts the entire Law. And, you've never offered any reason to dismiss the other sabbaths that are equally binding under the Law, which is what the OP addresses.

Do you really think that the Finger of God is Holy, and yet His Voice isn't?
That's the basis for your division of the Law, after all. The SDA church contradicts this artificial division every week.

Jesus is now our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek--
...
READ IT ALL!!
...
Heb 9:15
And because of this He is Mediator of a new covenant, so that, death having occurred for redemption of transgressions under the first covenant, those being called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.

This is one of the verses I just cited for you. You keep insisting on the continued tenure of the old covenant, incompatible with this verse showing that Jesus isn't a mediator of the old covenant. Even you admit that Jesus is our High Priest after the Order of Melchisedek, and isn't authorized under the Law that requires a Levitical priesthood to officiate the ordinances of the Sabbath.

Heb 10:9
then He said, "Lo, I come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first in order that He may set up the second;

This is the other verse I cited for you. The 'He' refers to Jesus Christ, and the 'first' was defined earlier in this epistle as the covenant from Mount Sinai, which was the Ten Commandments plus the Book of the Law.
It is mmksparbud who isn't reading the epistle to the Hebrews; you glossed right over verses 8:6-7, and you didn't even bother with verse 8:13 and the magnitude of its meaning.

Instead of offering a defense, you continue to dig your own argument into a grave. Stop treating the symptoms and look at God's disposition of the old covenant that drove those symptoms. The old covenant from Mount Sinai wasn't animal sacrifices; the Mosaic covenant mandated animal sacrifices, and they're required of you as long as you retain the 'first' covenant.

 

[SAAN]

Totally and completely ridiculous--and you obviously did not read Hebrews--We do not have to choose and the bible does not say so--we honor both--period. I could care less what you think I should do!! The old covenant was the blood of animals, the new is the blood of Jesus--simple.
Whatever you think is crystal clear, obviously isn't. Christ's blood is the new covenant, nothing to do with the 10 commandments--they are still in effect and written in our hearts--and it's with our hearts full of love for God and the cleansing blood of Christ that we obey.--You want to believe something else--go right ahead. We look forward to His second coming, which wouldn't be happening without a resurrection.

You are absolutely correct that the New Covenant is the Blood of Jesus and no animal sacrifices are no longer needed and Hebrews verifies that now. But like you have said if the law was written on our hearts, the law also shows the Sabbaths as a unit and if the Saturday Sabbath is still valid, so are the 7 other holy days as they were still being observed after the cross as well.

So my question is why do SDA's think they can judge Christians for not keeping the Sabbath and SDA's turn around and not keep the 7 Holy Sabbath days that God commanded and say they are keeping Gods commands. As for you dont need them anymore, only 4 of 7 have been fulfilled. Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, and Feast of Tabernacles have yet to be fulfilled, so since you keep Gods commands why dont you keep these days still?


Remember you all keep Gods commands that dont involve animal sacrifices they are written on your hearts.

 

[from scratch]

Excellent points - but there is an "any old excuse will do" response by those who remain at war with the Law of God that will simply by pass the text of scripture to continue their opposition to the Law of God.

in Romans 8:6-8 Paul says that their war against the Law of God is the only option apart from repentance.

And of course in Mark 7:6-13 Jesus makes the case that the OT Ten Commandments are the "Word of God" that church-tradition cannot make void.

So also in Eph 6:1-3 does Paul point out the that UNIT of the TEN Commandments remains valid for the saints in the NT.

in Christ,

Bob

So what is orthodox in your post?

 

[from scratch]

Totally and completely ridiculous--and you obviously did not read Hebrews--We do not have to choose and the bible does not say so--we honor both--period. I could care less what you think I should do!! The old covenant was the blood of animals, the new is the blood of Jesus--simple.
Whatever you think is crystal clear, obviously isn't. Christ's blood is the new covenant, nothing to do with the 10 commandments--they are still in effect and written in our hearts--and it's with our hearts full of love for God and the cleansing blood of Christ that we obey.--You want to believe something else--go right ahead. We look forward to His second coming, which wouldn't be happening without a resurrection.

So you want to keep 2 opposing covenants. Best wishes. Jesus said a divided house can't stand. IOW will be destroyed.

 

[from scratch]

This whole thing would be laughable if it weren't so sad.----Once again--the entire book of Hebrews states over and over that the blood of Christ is now the new covenant, no animal sacrifices are needed anymore--period. Anything that pointed to the death of Christ is over and done with.
It's very simple. Jesus is now our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek--
Now you want to say Paul did not write Hebrews and nobody knows who did---Fine--Whatever you say--It doesn't matter who wrote it, it is what it says that's important!!
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is all important--you're the ones who say we don't think it is, which is not true. Without the resurrection, there would be nothing for anyone--no resurrection of Christ=no salvation for anyone. We wouldn't even be here for if He had not resurrected there would be no reason for this planet to exist, and if we were allowed to continue as we have--then there would be no hope for anyone to do anything but die--no one would be going to heaven and no one would going to hell either--it is ludicris beyond belief to think that we place no importance on His resurrection--somebody stayed up all night coming up with that?? That's insane!!

READ IT ALL!!

Heb 8:1 Now a summary over the things being said: We have such a High Priest, who sat down on the right of the throne of the Majesty in Heaven, Psa. 110:1
Heb 8:2 Minister of the Holy of Holies, and of the true tabernacle which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is set in place to offer both gifts and sacrifices; from which it is necessary for this One also to have something which He may offer.
Heb 8:4 For if indeed He were on earth, He would not even be a priest, there being those priests offering gifts according to the Law,
Heb 8:5 who serve the pattern of and shadow of heavenly things, even as Moses was divinely warned, being about to make the tabernacle: For He says, "See that you make all things according to the pattern being shown to you in the mount." Exodus 25:40
Heb 8:6 But now He has gotten a more excellent ministry, also by so much as He is a Mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first was faultless, place would not have been sought for a second.

Heb 9:1 Truly, then, the first covenant also had ordinances of service, and the earthly holy place.
Heb 9:2 For the first tabernacle was prepared, in which was both the lampstand and the table, and the setting out of the loaves, which is called holy.
Heb 9:3 But behind the second veil is a tabernacle, being called Holy of Holies,
Heb 9:4 having a golden altar of incense, and the ark of the covenant covered around on all sides with gold, in which was the golden pot having the manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;
Heb 9:5 and above it the cherubs of glory overshadowing the mercy-seat (about which now is not enough time to speak piece by piece).
Heb 9:6 And these having been prepared thus, the priests go into the first tabernacle through all, completing the services.
Heb 9:7 But into the second the high priest goes alone once in the year, not without blood, which he offers for himself and the ignorances of the people;
Heb 9:8 the Holy Spirit signifying by this that the way of the Holy of Holies has not yet been made manifest, the first tabernacle still having been standing;
Heb 9:9 which was a parable for the present time, according to which both gifts and sacrifices are offered, but as regards conscience, not being able to perfect the one serving,
Heb 9:10 but only on foods and drinks, and various washings, and fleshly ordinances, until the time of setting things right has been imposed.

Heb 9:11 But Christ having appeared as a High Priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation,
Heb 9:12 nor through the blood of goats and of calves, but through His own blood, He entered once for all into the Holy of Holies, having procured everlasting redemption.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and goats, and ashes of a heifer sprinkling those having been defiled, sanctifies to the purity of the flesh,
Heb 9:14 by how much more the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God), will purify your conscience from dead works, to serve the living God!
Heb 9:15 And because of this He is Mediator of a new covenant, so that, death having occurred for redemption of transgressions under the first covenant, those being called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a covenant is, the death of him having covenanted must be offered.
Heb 9:17 For a covenant is affirmed over those dead, since it never has force when he who has covenanted is living.
Heb 9:18 From which neither the first covenant was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when every command had been spoken according to Law by Moses to all the people, having taken the blood of the calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and he sprinkled both the scroll and all the people,
Heb 9:20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God enjoined to you." Ex. 24:8
Heb 9:21 And he likewise sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the service vessels with the blood.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are purified by blood according to the Law; and apart from shedding of blood no remission occurs.
Heb 9:23 Then it was needful for the figures of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these; but the heavenly things themselves by better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ did not enter into the Holy of Holies made by hands, types of the true things, but into Heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf,
Heb 9:25 not that He should often offer Himself even as the high priest enters into the Holy of Holies year by year with blood of others;
Heb 9:26 since He must often have suffered from the foundation of the world. But now once for all, at the completion of the ages, He has been manifested for putting away of sin through the sacrifice of Himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is reserved to men once to die, and after this, Judgment;
Heb 9:28 so Christ having been once offered "to bear the sins of many," Christ shall appear a second time without sin to those expecting Him for salvation. Isa. 53:12

Heb 10:4 for it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
Heb 10:5 For this reason, coming into the world, He says, "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but You prepared a body for Me.
Heb 10:6 You did not delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices concerning sins."
Heb 10:7 "Then I said, Lo, I come, in the heading of the Book it was written concerning Me, to do Your will, O God." LXX-Psa. 39:7 -9; MT-Psa. 40:6 -8
Heb 10:8 Above, saying, "You did not desire nor were pleased with sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and sacrifices concerning sins," (which are offered according to the Law),
Heb 10:9 then He said, "Lo, I come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first in order that He may set up the second;

When or how does thou shalt not ... cease being a law and become a promise?

 

[mmksparbud]

Apparantly--the reading of Hebrews is something anyone on here is not able to do. There is no divided house--the texts are so plain that the only thing that can be said is that somehow the book Hebrews changes it's language into some foreign language that nobody can read when it is posted. I wouldn't say anyone is delibritely refusing to read it in English, it just must be a computer glitch of some sort that only happens with certain computers--all I can possibly say again is read every verse again--and again and again. At some point the computer glitch should straighten out,

It says the first covenant was with the blood of animals, the second with the blood of Christ--that's as simply put as It can be stated--I'm sure this isn't intentional, after all it is the word of God and shouldn't scare anyone off enough to avoid reading whole chapters and whole books. The bible does say that ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD--so no ne can be reluctant to read what is written. Any mention of the above scriptures seems to be firmly, firmly avoided.

Christ's blood has replaced the animal blood, Christs Priesthood has replaced the Levitical priesthood--earthly priests offered animal sacrifices "without blood there is no remission of sins", but earthly priests died and the sacrifices had to be every day--Christ, the Heavenly, Eternal Priest has now once gone into the Holy Temple and offered His blood once for the remission of sins "having obtained eternal redemption for us" and with His blood He has now written His law in our hearts-

Heb 8:10 This is the new agreement I will give the people of Israel. I will give this agreement in the future, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write my laws on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

-put what in our minds, and write what in our hearts?? HIS LAW. His blood has freed us from all those priests and animal sacrifices and we have one eternal priest that put His laws into our minds and writes them in our hearts.
All I can do is pray for those who will not see. I think this horse has been beaten enough.

 

[SAAN]

Apparantly--the reading of Hebrews is something anyone on here is not able to do. There is no divided house--the texts are so plain that the only thing that can be said is that somehow the book Hebrews changes it's language into some foreign language that nobody can read when it is posted. I wouldn't say anyone is delibritely refusing to read it in English, it just must be a computer glitch of some sort that only happens with certain computers--all I can possibly say again is read every verse again--and again and again. At some point the computer glitch should straighten out,

It says the first covenant was with the blood of animals, the second with the blood of Christ--that's as simply put as It can be stated--I'm sure this isn't intentional, after all it is the word of God and shouldn't scare anyone off enough to avoid reading whole chapters and whole books. The bible does say that ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD--so no ne can be reluctant to read what is written. Any mention of the above scriptures seems to be firmly, firmly avoided.

Christ's blood has replaced the animal blood, Christs Priesthood has replaced the Levitical priesthood--earthly priests offered animal sacrifices "without blood there is no remission of sins", but earthly priests died and the sacrifices had to be every day--Christ, the Heavenly, Eternal Priest has now once gone into the Holy Temple and offered His blood once for the remission of sins "having obtained eternal redemption for us" and with His blood He has now written His law in our hearts-

Heb 8:10 This is the new agreement I will give the people of Israel. I will give this agreement in the future, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write my laws on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

-put what in our minds, and write what in our hearts?? HIS LAW. His blood has freed us from all those priests and animal sacrifices and we have one eternal priest that put His laws into our minds and writes them in our hearts.
All I can do is pray for those who will not see. I think this horse has been beaten enough.

We have all read the book of Hebrews and agreed that animal sacrifices are no longer needed, as Jesus became the spotless lamb that died for our sins, so his blood covers everything.

What you seem to be doing is avoiding the main question...Why dont SDA's keep the 7 Holy days of Lev 23, since you all claim to keep Gods law. God listed all those Sabbaths along with the 7th day Sabbath and said they are HIS days, not the Jews days, so it is clear they are all one unit and should be observed. And like you said Hebrews said animal sacrifices are no longer needed, so you should be keeping Passover, Unleavened bread, First Fruits, Pentecost, Day of Atonement, Trumpet, and Feast of Tabernacles ALL with out the sacrifices. The disciples all kept those days years after Christs death too, so its obvious they were never abolished.

So why arent SDA's keeping these days and what is their excuse for not doing it?
-Cant say they were abolished because they were not and you said the laws are written on our hearts now
-Cant say the disciples werent keeping it because they were, many years after Christs death
-Cant say they were ceremonial because God said they were HIS days and not the Jews, so cant use it was for the Jews excuse
-Cant say they require sacrifices because you confirmed Hebrews said animal sacrifices are no longer needed
-Cant say they were for the nation of Israel only, because that same argument can be used for the 7th day Saturday Sabbath too
-Cant say because they were not written on stone by the fingers of God, because neither were the dietary laws and sexual immorality laws in Lev 11, and Lev 18, but you still abide by those


So why arent SDA's/Sabbatrians keeping these Holy Days in Lev 23/Num 28 and what is their excuse for not doing it, since you obey Gods laws?

 

[LarryP2]

So why arent SDA's/Sabbatrians keeping these Holy Days in Lev 23/Num 28 and what is their excuse for not doing it, since you obey Gods laws?

It is a Church founded on demonstrably false premises. The IJ, the "Remnant Church," the hilarious Sabbath-keeping mania were all face-saving doctrines to compensate for the absurd 1844 disaster. They are all just ridiculous and absurd attempts to give the 1844 catastrophe some meaning that it will never have.

As their top theologian Raymond Cottrell proved, NOTHING happened in 1844. NOTHING.

Other than a bunch of backwards and Biblicaly-illiterate stumped-tooth inbred clowns seized on Daniel 8:14 as the most important verse of the Bible. That's the honest view of what happened. The "movement" was largely formulated of people who would, on a good day, have trouble writing or reading their own name.

You must comprehend the wacko sheer loony-tunes nature of that blunder, and the rest of society's savage mocking and and sharp ridicule of these morons to understand why they would want SOMETHING, ANYTHING to compensate for this colossal embarrassment. Adventists were the laughingstock and the butt of ridicule and jokes. Heck, on "Ascension Day" in 1844, one town drunk went to the top of the mountain where Millerites lay sleeping in their white ascension robes, and blasted them awake with a Tuba. They laughably awoke with a start, believing it was the Ram's horn announcing the return of Jesus. Adventist doctrines are transparent attempts to draw attention away from this humiliating and crushingly-embarrassing debacle. How much more laughable can you get than being humiliated by the town drunk?

Read Ellen White's shrill, cravenly-dishonest and slanderous scoldings of the established Churches, which she nastily smeared as the "harlot of Babylon and it's Apostate Daughters" because they wisely refused to get caught up in Adventism's hysterical embrace of deliberate ignorance, false doctrines, a false prophet, psychosis and utter madness. Here's some more horrifying quotes viciously-attacking Christians who refused to be caught up in the group hysteria and madness:

"...Satan has taken full possession of the Churches". (Spiritual Gifts V.l,p.189-90) Their prayers are an "abomination" to God. (Spiritual Gifts, V1 p.190).

That is what they think of you and your church, even if they won't say it out loud in public, or to your face. Is it any wonder that many Millerites were eventually locked up in padded cells?

It will never get any better. It can't. The Church has no genuine reason to exist historically, Biblically, and theologically. It is just an epic disaster of the first order, that continues to ruin lives generation after generation by replaying the same transparent nonsense that ruined lives in 1844.

So in answer to your question, the rest of the Feast Days and Sabbath Days have not been kept by Adventism because they were unnecessary to cover-up the colossal fraud of 1844. The anodyne and Americanized Cheez-whiz-on-wonder-white-bread "Sabbath" was the only fairy tale that EGW deemed necessary for the task.

 

[VictorC]

Apparantly--the reading of Hebrews is something anyone on here is not able to do. There is no divided house--the texts are so plain that the only thing that can be said is that somehow the book Hebrews changes it's language into some foreign language that nobody can read when it is posted. I wouldn't say anyone is delibritely refusing to read it in English, it just must be a computer glitch of some sort that only happens with certain computers--all I can possibly say again is read every verse again--and again and again. At some point the computer glitch should straighten out,

It says the first covenant was with the blood of animals, the second with the blood of Christ--that's as simply put as It can be stated--I'm sure this isn't intentional, after all it is the word of God and shouldn't scare anyone off enough to avoid reading whole chapters and whole books. The bible does say that ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD--so no ne can be reluctant to read what is written. Any mention of the above scriptures seems to be firmly, firmly avoided.

Christ's blood has replaced the animal blood, Christs Priesthood has replaced the Levitical priesthood--earthly priests offered animal sacrifices "without blood there is no remission of sins", but earthly priests died and the sacrifices had to be every day--Christ, the Heavenly, Eternal Priest has now once gone into the Holy Temple and offered His blood once for the remission of sins "having obtained eternal redemption for us" and with His blood He has now written His law in our hearts-

Heb 8:10 This is the new agreement I will give the people of Israel. I will give this agreement in the future, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write my laws on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

-put what in our minds, and write what in our hearts?? HIS LAW. His blood has freed us from all those priests and animal sacrifices and we have one eternal priest that put His laws into our minds and writes them in our hearts.
All I can do is pray for those who will not see. I think this horse has been beaten enough.

You're writing posts addressed to no one in particular now, and blaming others for not reading the epistle to the Hebrews. This doesn't take into account preceding posts pointing out where you've contradicted specific passages in this epistle, and you aren't responding to them.

In fact, you've done nothing to defend your claim that the Sabbath even exists outside the first covenant, and you've shown no intent to keep the Sabbath Holy according to the first covenant it depends on. In light of Ellen White's claim that "It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord" {6T 356.4}, your claim of salvation as an adherent of Adventism is suspect. In fact, Ellen's claim to salvation is suspect, as is the entire SDA church that hasn't produced one member who has kept the Sabbath Holy. In the eschatological model unique to Adventism, this alone prohibits the second advent of Jesus Christ:

In the last generation God gives the final demonstration that men can keep the law of God and that they can live without sinning. God leaves nothing undone to make the demonstration complete. The only limitation He puts on Satan is that he may not kill the saints of God. He may tempt them, he may harass and threaten them; and he does his best. But he fails. He cannot make them sin. They stand the test, and God puts His seal on them. Through the last generation of saints God stands fully vindicated.

If you don't understand this, it means Jesus isn't coming back until someone vindicates the first covenant; someone needs to keep the Sabbath Holy according to the Law before Jesus has your church's approval to return. No one in your church does so, now or ever. Andreasen illustrates classic Adventist soteriology demanding fallen flesh attaining sinlessness, contrary to God's promise "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more" that is consistent with the condition of those God has chosen to save.

I've repeated my post four times now, and you have never responded to points and questions that remain unanswered. I won't bother with a fifth installment you're going to ignore. SAAN has also had to repeat the questions of the OP several times, and you haven't responded to him either. I don't see how repeating posts is going to change your failure to respond to them. They remain uncontested.

 

[VictorC]

It is a Church founded on demonstrably false premises.

False soteriology, as I illustrated in my last post. While Adventist members make mention of a new covenant, it is clear that their form of 'salvation' depends on compliance with the first covenant they don't acknowledge God's redemption from. But they're far from that compliance, and never getting any closer.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Y
I've repeated my post four times now, and you have never responded to points and questions that remain unanswered. I won't bother with a fifth installment you're going to ignore. SAAN has also had to repeat the questions of the OP several times, and you haven't responded to him either. I don't see how repeating posts is going to change your failure to respond to them. They remain uncontested.

You won't get any legitimate response from these folks they aren't interested in debate but are rather interested in promoting their beliefs. They could care little about what you say they just mostly use your posts to tack on cut and paste spam hoping that someone reading it will be confused and fearful and decide that they better keep the Sabbath or they won't be saved.

 

[VictorC]

You won't get any legitimate response from these folks they aren't interested in debate but are rather interested in promoting their beliefs. They could care little about what you say they just mostly use your posts to tack on cut and paste spam hoping that someone reading it will be confused and fearful and decide that they better keep the Sabbath or they won't be saved.

Well, I can't say experience has given me any reason to disagree with your point. If they want to try the same form of righteousness the scribes and Pharisees did, they're welcome to - but Jesus stated "unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.", showing this form of righteousness leads to failure. It is not according to the righteousness imputed by God that a Christian depends on:

Philippians 3
Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

 

[LarryP2]

They could care little about what you say they just mostly use your posts to tack on cut and paste spam hoping that someone reading it will be confused and fearful and decide that they better keep the Sabbath or they won't be saved.

They are wolves that prey on biblically-ignorant and gullible Christians. Their Sabbath "arguments" are just classic bait and switch tactics used by the patent medicine grifters so common during the Church's formulating years. The Sabbath is merely the "hook" they use to pull the wool over the victim's eyes, and the tip of the iceberg of a mass of odious and unchristian doctrine that also must be accepted before Salvation can be granted.

They will eventually leave for greener pastures.

 

[Sophrosyne]

They will eventually leave for greener pastures.

They haven't left in the years I've been here, some get banned and others just make a new sock and try to change their posting style so as to make folks think they are a new person. I've found that people don't tend to change unless their lives are made totally miserable and the only way to be comfortable again is to change.

 

[Sophrosyne]

They are wolves that prey on biblically-ignorant and gullible Christians. Their Sabbath "arguments" are just classic bait and switch tactics used by the patent medicine grifters so common during the Church's formulating years. The Sabbath is merely the "hook" they use to pull the wool over the victim's eyes, and the tip of the iceberg of a mass of odious and unchristian doctrine that also must be accepted before Salvation can be granted.

They will eventually leave for greener pastures.

This is one of the "greener" pastures here. The only way things will change is for the rules to change but I for one am fine with them being here showing their true colors and seeing how deeply entrenched they are in their beliefs that when confronted with opposing opinions they are stymied and unable to respond. This should help convince those who just happen to drop by the thread that they do not need to bother ever keeping the Sabbath and be absolutely 100% unafraid it will affect their walk as a Christian.