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Why dont SDA's and Sabbath keepers also keep the Feast Days of Leviticus 23 too???

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LarryP2

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They haven't left in the years I've been here, some get banned and others just make a new sock and try to change their posting style so as to make folks think they are a new person. I've found that people don't tend to change unless their lives are made totally miserable and the only way to be comfortable again is to change.

The worst of it is, they are usually only "successful" with new Christian converts, the low-hanging fruit they exploit for the lucrative 10 percent income stream. I am reminded of SDA whenever I read Matt Taibbi's screamingly funny description of Goldman Sachs:

"The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money." The Great American Bubble Machine | Politics News | Rolling Stone

That's Adventism in a nutshell: A great vampire squid trying to wrap itself around the face of gullible Christians, relentless jamming its doctrinal blood funnel into biblically-illiterate Christians, who smell like money.
 
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Sophrosyne

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The worst of it is, they are usually only "successful" with new Christian converts, the low-hanging fruit they exploit for the lucrative 10 percent income stream. I am reminded of SDA whenever I read Matt Taibbi's screamingly funny description of Goldman Sachs:

"The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money." The Great American Bubble Machine | Politics News | Rolling Stone

That's Adventism in a nutshell: A great vampire squid trying to wrap itself around the face of gullible Christians, relentless jamming its doctrinal blood funnel into biblically-illiterate Christians, who smell like money.
The one thing that used to annoy me about SDA's was the prophecy seminar flyers they sent out that purposely left no clue as to what group/church was associated with it. One even went as far as to make up a website with no information about the group there either. I had to do a search of the address of the seminar and of the topics spoke of on the flyer to learn it was the SDA promoting it. I've only found cults that used this type of secrecy prior to these flyers. I've noticed the last few I've gotten in the mail finally do have the name of the church (SDA) on them. Now at least people can research who these folks are before attending their conference and being told that the mark of the beast is worshiping on Sundays or some other nonsense like that.
 
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LarryP2

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The one thing that used to annoy me about SDA's was the prophecy seminar flyers they sent out that purposely left no clue as to what group/church was associated with it. One even went as far as to make up a website with no information about the group there either. I had to do a search of the address of the seminar and of the topics spoke of on the flyer to learn it was the SDA promoting it. I've only found cults that used this type of secrecy prior to these flyers. I've noticed the last few I've gotten in the mail finally do have the name of the church (SDA) on them. Now at least people can research who these folks are before attending their conference and being told that the mark of the beast is worshiping on Sundays or some other nonsense like that.

They have flooded the country's mailboxes with a plain-vanilla version of "The Great Controversy." It has all of the odious and vile "harlot of Babylon; Apostate Daughters of the harlot of Babylon;" nasty smears against Sunday-keeping Christianity removed. Along with the toxic and evil nonsense that God does not hear the prayers of mainstream Christians, because they did not fall prey to the 1844 insanity and false prophecies. It is called "The Great Controversy Project." Canada has classified the book as "Hate Literature," because of the way it smears Roman Catholicism:
http://spectrummagazine.org/node/3362

And the entire project is shot through with dishonesty and misrepresentation:
http://www.greatcontroversyad.com/The Great Hope Exposed.htm

Even Adventists are calling the entire campaign a colossal fraud shot through with false advertising:
http://www.lrltv.org/controversy-hijacked.html

Once they hook you in, you get the full-flavored, full-strength, full-tar and nicotine version.
 
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Sophrosyne

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They have flooded the country's mailboxes with a plain-vanilla version of "The Great Controversy." It has all of the odious and vile "harlot of Babylon; Apostate Daughters of the harlot of Babylon;" nasty smears against Sunday-keeping Christianity removed. Along with the toxic and evil nonsense that God does not hear the prayers of mainstream Christians, because they did not fall prey to the 1844 insanity and false prophecies. It is called "The Great Controversy Project." Canada has classified the book as "Hate Literature," because of the way it smears Roman Catholicism:
Will 'The Great Controversy' Project Harm Adventism? | Spectrum Magazine

And the entire project is shot through with dishonesty and misrepresentation:
The Great Hope (Hoax) Exposed

Once they hook you in, you get the full-flavored, full-strength, full-tar and nicotine version.
A lot of churches like to give you the watered down version before they indoctrinate you into thinking that only through that church are you ever going to be "right" with God in that you can both be saved and stay that way. The ones that demand your salvation rests upon believing and being one of them I run away screaming..... :p
 
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LarryP2

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A lot of churches like to give you the watered down version before they indoctrinate you into thinking that only through that church are you ever going to be "right" with God in that you can both be saved and stay that way. The ones that demand your salvation rests upon believing and being one of them I run away screaming..... :p

I have been the sorry victim of two vile cults in my life: I was born SDA, managed to escape from it when I was 22. Then I got sucked into yet another even more vile cult when I was 27, The Way International. I get rashes now when some moron thumps the Bible and crows how they and only they have a corner on the truth. I also run away screaming. Here's how another ex-SDA describes the fraudulent Great Controversy Project:

"[Ellen White's] combined writings are a toxic blend of stolen work, emotional terrorism, ignorance, lies, and just plain lunacy........it’s nothing but a scam on the same level as pyramid marketing or chain letters......[the church's] logo has been tarnished for a long time, and word is spreading far and wide that the only thing the cult has to stand on — the lunatic writings of this perverted madwoman — is a lie"
http://atheistoasis.wordpress.com/2...ntist-lies-coming-soon-to-a-mailbox-near-you/

Quite frankly, my ability to be able to tolerate Christianity required 15 years of intense non-Christian spiritual "therapy." I will go to no church that does not repeatedly confirm the Nicene Creed, or insists on Sola Scriptura.
 
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Sophrosyne

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I have been the sorry victim of two vile cults in my life: I was born SDA, managed to escape from it when I was 22. Then I got sucked into yet another even more vile cult when I was 27, The Way International. I get rashes now when some moron thumps the Bible and crows how they and only they have a corner on the truth. I also run away screaming. Here's how another ex-SDA describes the fraudulent Great Controversy Project:

"[Ellen White's] combined writings are a toxic blend of stolen work, emotional terrorism, ignorance, lies, and just plain lunacy........it’s nothing but a scam on the same level as pyramid marketing or chain letters......[the church's] logo has been tarnished for a long time, and word is spreading far and wide that the only thing the cult has to stand on — the lunatic writings of this perverted madwoman — is a lie"
Seventh-day Adventist Lies: Coming Soon To A Mailbox Near You | Atheist Oasis – A Rational Refuge

Quite frankly, my ability to be able to tolerate Christianity required 15 years of non-Christian spiritual "therapy."
I too had been around a flawed version of Christianity as a child. It took me over 20 years to completely get around to consider becoming a Christian again. I've found too often people get stuck on obeying and being good and pretending that makes them a Christian but in reality it is about love where it lies. Love doesn't make demands on us, it encourages us to make demands on ourselves when we can manage them. I see nothing of this sort in those who promote the Law nor can I see love in it nor can I see managing it as we can as the Law is either do it or else.... or as Christians are taught truly.... don't do it and instead love one another.
 
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LarryP2

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I too had been around a flawed version of Christianity as a child. It took me over 20 years to completely get around to consider becoming a Christian again. I've found too often people get stuck on obeying and being good and pretending that makes them a Christian but in reality it is about love where it lies. Love doesn't make demands on us, it encourages us to make demands on ourselves when we can manage them. I see nothing of this sort in those who promote the Law nor can I see love in it nor can I see managing it as we can as the Law is either do it or else.... or as Christians are taught truly.... don't do it and instead love one another.

Sounds like we went through a similar experience. Only in the last couple of weeks have I been able to even stomach reading the Bible again. The last time was probably 1979 or so. I can read it now and really appreciate it, due almost entirely to the church I am attending now (it openly denounces Sola Scriptura, and no, it is not Roman Catholicism). I spent 15 years in the Episcopalian Church, and I can say nothing but good about that experience. The church and its members are wonderful. But I needed more.....

A 90 year old Episcopalian woman asks her priest if it is okay to read the Bible. He gave some cautious warnings about it, but then gave the project his blessing. The woman doesn't come to church for six months, committed to reading the Bible cover to cover before she dies.

She finally comes back to Church, and the Priest asks about her experience and what she thinks of the bible. She replies: "It was great, but it sure quotes from the Common Book of Prayer a lot."
 
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VictorC

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Sounds like we went through a similar experience. Only in the last couple of weeks have I been able to even stomach reading the Bible again. The last time was probably 1979 or so. I can read it now and really appreciate it, due almost entirely to the church I am attending now (it openly denounces Sola Scriptura, and no, it is not Roman Catholicism). I spent 15 years in the Episcopalian Church, and I can say nothing but good about that experience. The church and its members are wonderful. But I needed more.....

A 90 year old Episcopalian woman asks her priest if it is okay to read the Bible. He gave some cautious warnings about it, but then gave the project his blessing. The woman doesn't come to church for six months, committed to reading the Bible cover to cover before she dies.

She finally comes back to Church, and the Priest asks about her experience and what she thinks of the bible. She replies: "It was great, but it sure quotes from the Common Book of Prayer a lot."

My approach is toward a community church with a pastor who knows his Bible and doctrines that aren't 'peculiar'. Where I live in the mountains of northern Colorado, we have three such churches, but two of them don't exactly lead their members into a full knowledge of the Gospel. One does, and that's where we go. We don't look to a denominational affiliation, and the early church was the church in the city it was located - nothing more. Divisions aren't conducive to the unity of the faith we've been entrusted with.

There isn't anything wrong with a sola Scriptura approach to doctrinal conclusions. It takes quality time invested in a good translation of the Bible to discern errors, after which errors stick out like sore extremities. For traditional preferences that can't be sourced from Scripture, these are relegated to non-essential status unimportant to the Gospel. Those groups that can't see the non-essential nature of what they consider 'distinctive' soon become 'remnant' in their exclusivity, and are drawn away from the one faith God gave to us. That's the nature of a cult.

Just noticed your gearhead doctorate signature. I putter around in a pickup truck, and ride a Suzuki DL650 V-strom with a touring windscreen that wouldn't survive speeds over 100mph. I'm content puttering around at my age (today's my birthday!). But I must say I have a problem with the notion of an El Camino doing an 8-second quarter mile - regardless of what's under the hood, I have yet to see something glue tires down enough for the traction necessary in what's essentially a glorified pickup truck...
 
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My approach is toward a community church with a pastor who knows his Bible and doctrines that aren't 'peculiar'. Where I live in the mountains of northern Colorado, we have three such churches, but two of them don't exactly lead their members into a full knowledge of the Gospel. One does, and that's where we go. We don't look to a denominational affiliation, and the early church was the church in the city it was located - nothing more. Divisions aren't conducive to the unity of the faith we've been entrusted with.

There isn't anything wrong with a sola Scriptura approach to doctrinal conclusions. It takes quality time invested in a good translation of the Bible to discern errors, after which errors stick out like sore extremities. For traditional preferences that can't be sourced from Scripture, these are relegated to non-essential status unimportant to the Gospel. Those groups that can't see the non-essential nature of what they consider 'distinctive' soon become 'remnant' in their exclusivity, and are drawn away from the one faith God gave to us. That's the nature of a cult.

Just noticed your gearhead doctorate signature. I putter around in a pickup truck, and ride a Suzuki DL650 V-strom with a touring windscreen that wouldn't survive speeds over 100mph. I'm content puttering around at my age (today's my birthday!). But I must say I have a problem with the notion of an El Camino doing an 8-second quarter mile - regardless of what's under the hood, I have yet to see something glue tires down enough for the traction necessary in what's essentially a glorified pickup truck...

The El Camino has a narrowed and "tubbed" rearend with Micky Thompson street slicks on back, about 30 inches wide each. The tires are essentially wrinkle wall slicks used on the drag strip, with some shallow grooves cut in them to make them street legal. Being "tubbed" means that the tires are street legal because they are inside of the fenders. It is a full Art Morrison subframe in back, held together with ladder bars and a massively buttressed coil over spring and shock system. It also has wheelie bars.....it needs them. It is a Dana 60 rearend with axles that are only about 8 inches long each. They are Strange chrome molly axles that are indestructible. And its got a Detroit Locker in the diff. When I did the sub-8 second quarter, I didn't have wheelie bars yet and it almost flipped backward over on its top. The slicks wrinkled up just like they are supposed to. I had to slam on the brakes to get it back on the ground and it bounced up so all four wheels were in the air. When it hit second @ around 90 mph, the front end started coming back up in the air again.....went through the traps with the front end about 6 inches off the ground. Try that sometime at 135 mph. You won't want that to happen again. With wheelie bars, I think I can get it into high 6 second range. I didn't even have a full snoot of Nitrous and I had blower pulleys that only allowed 8psi while I was breaking the motor in. Now it has 25 pounds of boost with a full shot of nitrous. I have raced a Kawasaki ZX-14 Ninja several times and beat him every time. The Ninja has nitrous now so they should run neck and neck down in the "sixes." El Caminos of this year are a glorified Malibu with a pickup bed. They are nothing resembling a "real" pickup. They are not even rated 1/4 ton. And mine is less than that, although I have a hoot going down to the nursery in the spring and loading it up with bags of steer manure and tomato plants. You should see the look on people's faces!

I am totally into liturgy, the Nicene Creed and not so much Bible. I have realized in my life that I may never repair the damage that was done from 12 years of Adventist schooling, especially Academy and four years of brainwas......I mean Bible classes. Lately I have seen some encouraging signs as I morph into Eastern Orthodoxy and with some encouragement from the Priest to give it a try again. I have, and found it actually enjoyable for the first time in my life.
 
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VictorC

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The El Camino has a narrowed and "tubbed" rearend with Micky Thompson street slicks on back, about 30 inches wide each. The tires are essentially wrinkle wall slicks used on the drag strip, with some shallow grooves cut in them to make them street legal. Being "tubbed" means that the tires are street legal because they are inside of the fenders. It is a full Art Morrison subframe in back, held together with ladder bars and a massively buttressed coil over spring and shock system. It also has wheelie bars.....it needs them. It is a Dana 60 rearend with axles that are only about 8 inches long each. They are Strange chrome molly axles that are indestructible. And its got a Detroit Locker in the diff. When I did the sub-8 second quarter, I didn't have wheelie bars yet and it almost flipped backward over on its top. The slicks wrinkled up just like they are supposed to. I had to slam on the brakes to get it back on the ground and it bounced up so all four wheels were in the air. When it hit second @ around 90 mph, the front end started coming back up in the air again.....went through the traps with the front end about 6 inches off the ground. With wheelie bars, I think I can get it into high 6 second range. I didn't even have a full snoot of Nitrous and I had blower pulleys that only allowed 8psi while I was breaking the motor in. Now it has 25 pounds of boost with a full shot of nitrous.

Okay, I figured it had to have a locked differential on my own, but the rest of the stuff wasn't expected, and this was done on a dragstrip which is no doubt treated with something for 'glue'. Gotcha.

I am totally into liturgy, the Nicene Creed and not so much Bible. I have realized in my life that I may never repair the damage that was done from 12 years of Adventist schooling, especially Academy and four years of brainwas......I mean Bible classes. Lately I have seen some encouraging signs as I morph into Eastern Orthodoxy and with some encouragement from the Priest to give it a try again. I have, and found it actually enjoyable for the first time in my life.

You've seen my dependence on sola Scriptura that has helped keep me away from the cults. You'll see the same approach in members I'm familiar with, such as Cribstyl and Sophrosyne. You will see the claim made by Adventists, but it doesn't take long to see them resorting to sound-bites contrary to the narrative their bites are lifted from, and lately we've watched one of them re-defining terms completely different from how the Biblical authors meant them, and how Evangelicals accept them. Any time you see a difficulty in a Biblical citation, just go read it in the context the inspired Author wrote it in. Without exception, you will find consistency in narratives that attests to a singular source of Inspiration. Don't be the slightest bit shy of using the Bible and nothing else.

As a final comment based on my experiences, the Lutheran Church as a denomination has doctrinal views that I have a hard time finding faults with. I was raised in the Lutheran Church, and left it for crappier ground because their doctrine isn't conveyed to the laity very well. It got buried underneath the liturgy. What got taught in seminary just doesn't make it to the sponges sitting in the pews that need that knowledge. It is really sad, and the end result is a good church producing weak members who are successfully targeted by those cult groups you've become familiar with. That's why I don't care very much about liturgy, counting it as fluff that just gets in the way.
 
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Well, I am doing my best with the Bible, but after 27 years of pure hell from two different cults, its tough sledding. Mainly what I try to do is to look at the SDA proof texts and find commentary out there that explains and refutes their view. It isn't hard. And it really does seem to clear up my mind of all the garbage that was put in there from 12 years of Adventist schooling. And as you can probably tell, I have done immense extra-Biblical research on SDA. In fact, I would have to say it was good old Dudley Canright's book "Seventh Day Adventism Renounced" that ignited my current studies, my decision to come on here, and get more heavily involved in another Church. I am very happy with my situation right now, reading maybe one Epistle per week. I read Galatians several times last week, and that is definitely a minefield for Seventh Day Adventists. It made me very happy, as well as Colossians 2.
 
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Well, I am doing my best with the Bible, but after 27 years of pure hell from two different cults, its tough sledding. Mainly what I try to do is to look at the SDA proof texts and find commentary out there that explains and refutes their view. It isn't hard. And it really does seem to clear up my mind of all the garbage that was put in there from 12 years of Adventist schooling. And as you can probably tell, I have done immense extra-Biblical research on SDA. In fact, I would have to say it was good old Dudley Canright's book "Seventh Day Adventism Renounced" that ignited my current studies, my decision to come on here, and get more heavily involved in another Church. I am very happy with my situation right now, reading maybe one Epistle per week. I read Galatians several times last week, and that is definitely a minefield for Seventh Day Adventists. It made me very happy, as well as Colossians 2.

If you have an hour+ you can spend sitting in front of a computer and have a good network connection, the video Cribstyl posted provides a good background, explaining what the Ten Commandments was, what the Sabbath was, and where it was designed to lead us. Having someone lead you through the basics enables you to find the details more easily on your own.
 
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Well, I am doing my best with the Bible, but after 27 years of pure hell from two different cults, its tough sledding. Mainly what I try to do is to look at the SDA proof texts and find commentary out there that explains and refutes their view. It isn't hard. And it really does seem to clear up my mind of all the garbage that was put in there from 12 years of Adventist schooling. And as you can probably tell, I have done immense extra-Biblical research on SDA. In fact, I would have to say it was good old Dudley Canright's book "Seventh Day Adventism Renounced" that ignited my current studies, my decision to come on here, and get more heavily involved in another Church. I am very happy with my situation right now, reading maybe one Epistle per week. I read Galatians several times last week, and that is definitely a minefield for Seventh Day Adventists. It made me very happy, as well as Colossians 2.
Romans is also a major mine field for them. I dearly love them both to defend the truth with.
 
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They have flooded the country's mailboxes with a plain-vanilla version of "The Great Controversy." It has all of the odious and vile "harlot of Babylon; Apostate Daughters of the harlot of Babylon;" nasty smears against Sunday-keeping Christianity removed. Along with the toxic and evil nonsense that God does not hear the prayers of mainstream Christians, because they did not fall prey to the 1844 insanity and false prophecies. It is called "The Great Controversy Project." Canada has classified the book as "Hate Literature," because of the way it smears Roman Catholicism:
Will 'The Great Controversy' Project Harm Adventism? | Spectrum Magazine

And the entire project is shot through with dishonesty and misrepresentation:
The Great Hope (Hoax) Exposed

Even Adventists are calling the entire campaign a colossal fraud shot through with false advertising:
The Great Controversy Hijacked

Once they hook you in, you get the full-flavored, full-strength, full-tar and nicotine version.
Nothing new. I wish the US would do the same.
 
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Romans is also a major mine field for them. I dearly love them both to defend the truth with.

Of course, Paul was denouncing the heresy of Gallatianism, which is indistinguishable from Adventism.

Well with that advice, I will turn now to the Book of Romans. I probably should have read that before, since I have been to Corinth, which is purportedly where Paul wrote Romans. It's actually kind of funny: I am attending a new liturgical Church (And I attended Episcopalian for the past 15 years and cannot say enough good about them). Neither my present Church nor the Episcopalians really encourage Bible reading. Which, as you can imagine, after what I have been through, was very welcome. I have to say, that in spite of both Church's lukewarm approach to Bible reading, I have truthfully read more in the last month than in the last 30 years. And I am actually finding it incredibly fascinating, in light of the summer I spent in Greece and Italy, visiting virtually all of the towns and cities that Paul haunted: Athens, Rome, Corinth, Thessaloniki, Ephesus, Antioch, Galatia, Colossia, Phillipa, Jerusalem. I have even been to the Street called Straight in Damascus.

I highly recommend it: As I am reading through the New Testament I have some pretty strong memories of what those places looked like, and it really helps me to stay focused on the actual writing that Paul wrote for each of those places. I have actually been mesmerized by reading Paul's Epistles now. Incredible! In fact, I had some very profound spiritual experiences in a number of those places, and most especially, in Rome. I have written up a description of what happened in Rome, which 23 years later I still can never get it out of my head. It was amazing. Someday I will share it on this site. Pretty amazing part of the world over there that most Christians just do not have a first-hand basis for understanding.

And that is too bad. When I think of Paul arguing at Mars Hill, he was citing the Greek God Zeuss for at least 25 percent of his speech, denouncing Zeuss for his "unknowability," and even more ridiculous was the monument to the "Unknown God." Paul, in his flawless urban Greek, just enthralled his Greek audience. The Greeks have a strange recollection of what happened, and their point of view on the way they heard it. This strange Jew had come from many miles away just to tell them about the fulfillment of the mysterious Zeuss, which according to him happened with this half-human/half God creature that killed itself and then Resurrected itself. And then to top it all off, he tried to kill this movement off before he joined it! They were lined up 100 deep to "sign on the bottom line," and join this new movement of self-sacrifice, brotherly love, and unlimited forgiveness. The Gospel was truly Good News for them.

The Gospel spread like wildfire among the Greeks, like it never had in Jerusalem. Paul was a man with a mission. He had no time to lose.
 
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I have been the sorry victim of two vile cults in my life: I was born SDA, managed to escape from it when I was 22. Then I got sucked into yet another even more vile cult when I was 27, The Way International. I get rashes now when some moron thumps the Bible and crows how they and only they have a corner on the truth. I also run away screaming. Here's how another ex-SDA describes the fraudulent Great Controversy Project:

"[Ellen White's] combined writings are a toxic blend of stolen work, emotional terrorism, ignorance, lies, and just plain lunacy........it’s nothing but a scam on the same level as pyramid marketing or chain letters......[the church's] logo has been tarnished for a long time, and word is spreading far and wide that the only thing the cult has to stand on — the lunatic writings of this perverted madwoman — is a lie"
Seventh-day Adventist Lies: Coming Soon To A Mailbox Near You | Atheist Oasis – A Rational Refuge

Quite frankly, my ability to be able to tolerate Christianity required 15 years of intense non-Christian spiritual "therapy." I will go to no church that does not repeatedly confirm the Nicene Creed, or insists on Sola Scriptura.
Love it, especially the closing statement. The only difference for me is it makes great fire starters. It burns very well. The page bears witness well to my personal experience.
 
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I too had been around a flawed version of Christianity as a child. It took me over 20 years to completely get around to consider becoming a Christian again. I've found too often people get stuck on obeying and being good and pretending that makes them a Christian but in reality it is about love where it lies. Love doesn't make demands on us, it encourages us to make demands on ourselves when we can manage them. I see nothing of this sort in those who promote the Law nor can I see love in it nor can I see managing it as we can as the Law is either do it or else.... or as Christians are taught truly.... don't do it and instead love one another.
Same here for me. It took me 40 years and an additional 20 to be completely repulsed.
 
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My approach is toward a community church with a pastor who knows his Bible and doctrines that aren't 'peculiar'. Where I live in the mountains of northern Colorado, we have three such churches, but two of them don't exactly lead their members into a full knowledge of the Gospel. One does, and that's where we go. We don't look to a denominational affiliation, and the early church was the church in the city it was located - nothing more. Divisions aren't conducive to the unity of the faith we've been entrusted with.

There isn't anything wrong with a sola Scriptura approach to doctrinal conclusions. It takes quality time invested in a good translation of the Bible to discern errors, after which errors stick out like sore extremities. For traditional preferences that can't be sourced from Scripture, these are relegated to non-essential status unimportant to the Gospel. Those groups that can't see the non-essential nature of what they consider 'distinctive' soon become 'remnant' in their exclusivity, and are drawn away from the one faith God gave to us. That's the nature of a cult.

Just noticed your gearhead doctorate signature. I putter around in a pickup truck, and ride a Suzuki DL650 V-strom with a touring windscreen that wouldn't survive speeds over 100mph. I'm content puttering around at my age (today's my birthday!). But I must say I have a problem with the notion of an El Camino doing an 8-second quarter mile - regardless of what's under the hood, I have yet to see something glue tires down enough for the traction necessary in what's essentially a glorified pickup truck...
Hope you had a great birthday.

 
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LarryP2

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Same here for me. It took me 40 years and an additional 20 to be completely repulsed.

Don't you think it is just astonishing how REAL and REMARKABLE Christianity is after you've been in bad religious situations? Christianity I have found is NEVER improved by anything I or anyone else adds to it. The simple Gospel needs no embellishments or add-ons. It needs no prophets or seers. No matter how much I enjoy going to church now (a lot), and how much I enjoy reading the Bible (amazingly a lot), you just can't get around that the entire Gospel is summed up in John 3:16. And then if you really want to get out of control with your religion, you can buy the whole Gospel of John in a pocketbook.

I have always said that in reality, among Churches that really teach the Gospel and focus on the Resurrection, the difference among them is more style than substance. You can go to a mind-boggling Episcopalian Cathedral with stained glass and a Bishop with a Doctorate in theology from Yale. Or you can go to a sawdust-floored revival tent with a stump-toothed hillbilly preacher with a six week Bible correspondence course under the belt. The message is pretty much the same.
 
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from scratch

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Okay, I figured it had to have a locked differential on my own, but the rest of the stuff wasn't expected, and this was done on a dragstrip which is no doubt treated with something for 'glue'. Gotcha.



You've seen my dependence on sola Scriptura that has helped keep me away from the cults. You'll see the same approach in members I'm familiar with, such as Cribstyl and Sophrosyne. You will see the claim made by Adventists, but it doesn't take long to see them resorting to sound-bites contrary to the narrative their bites are lifted from, and lately we've watched one of them re-defining terms completely different from how the Biblical authors meant them, and how Evangelicals accept them. Any time you see a difficulty in a Biblical citation, just go read it in the context the inspired Author wrote it in. Without exception, you will find consistency in narratives that attests to a singular source of Inspiration. Don't be the slightest bit shy of using the Bible and nothing else.

As a final comment based on my experiences, the Lutheran Church as a denomination has doctrinal views that I have a hard time finding faults with. I was raised in the Lutheran Church, and left it for crappier ground because their doctrine isn't conveyed to the laity very well. It got buried underneath the liturgy. What got taught in seminary just doesn't make it to the sponges sitting in the pews that need that knowledge. It is really sad, and the end result is a good church producing weak members who are successfully targeted by those cult groups you've become familiar with. That's why I don't care very much about liturgy, counting it as fluff that just gets in the way.
Basically I started off with the Bible for my defense against them. It showed me their false doctrines without any out side help. Then I started seeing quotes from their religion. My neighbor was a great source, too. Finally had to tell him to not come back. I found out they don't listen to anything and have changed my approach which will soon be seeing another metamorphous still.
 
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