The Lord's day.

[prodromos]

I posted this ages ago though probably on a different thread.

God is Spirit and does not tire or need rest, rest pertains to the flesh, so when Genesis says that God rested on the 7th day it is a prophetic reference to the day in which God in the flesh, rested in the tomb.
He did not remain in the tomb however, but rose to life on the eighth day. This is the new day which the Lord has made. This day is not followed by night but is an eternal day with no end. It follows the Sabbath and supercedes the Sabbath because it is not bound by the endless cycle of seven days.

 

[Setyoufree]

In fact after the fall of mankind, both God and His Son began work on the redemption of the human race. That's why Jesus said, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." John 5:17,18

And that work culminated in the death of Christ.

For thirty something years Christ lived a life of total, unblemished obedience before God. And on the cross, Christ took our curse. By His death, states Paul, "we were reconciled to God" (See 5:10)

When did Christ die?

Luke 23:44 It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour, 45 for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last....54 It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin."

Christ died just before the Sabbath. He died late Friday evening.

What was accomplished?

Romans 5:10 "We (the human race) were reconciled to him (God) through the death of his Son"

So on the Sabbath, God the Father - who up until this point had been working to redeem the human race - rested from His perfect and complete work of salvation in Christ Jesus.

Why did God rest from His work?

Because it was finished. In fact just before Christ died, He exclaimed "It is finished".

Let's look at this:

John 19:30 He (Jesus) said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He breathed His last. 31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. 33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.

What was finished? Salvation full & complete.

So God rested, not because He was tired, but as evidence that redemption was complete. No longer were Christ and His Father working to redeem the human race because the human race stood redeemed in the doing & dying of Christ.

 

[Setyoufree]

So God rested, not because He was tired, but as evidence that redemption was complete. No longer were Christ and His Father working to redeem the human race because the human race stood redeemed in the doing & dying of Christ.

Hebrews 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath-keeping for the people of God.

Why?

10 For the one who has entered God's rest (accepted the gospel) has also rested from his own works, as God did from his.

Why does there remain a Sabbath keeping?

Because God rested the 7th-day from His complete & perfect work of redemption in Christ Jesus!

Why does the NT believer rest on the Sabbath?

To go to church?

No!

To obey the law?

No! The law doesn't say rest because God redeemed the human race in Christ.

Then why?

Because "the one who has entered God's rest (accepted the gospel) has also rested from his own works, as God did from his."

Notice the "also". In addition to accepting the gospel, the believer rests as God rested.

Why?

Because by resting the Sabbath, as a sign, the believer is outwardly stating that he cannot add to God's perfect work of redemption and hence he stands perfect in Christ and not by his legalistic attempts at meriting heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

Okay, point taken....

What you are saying is that the Sabbath, as recorded in Deut 5:12-14, pointed to God's work of freeing the Jews from slavery and hence it is only for the Jew. Is that your point?

In Exodus 20 where God both speaks and writes the TEN commandments - the start is with the statement that God freed Israel and because of that they are to "have no other God's before Me" and to not worship images, or bow to them or serve them and they are not to take God's name in Vain.

Some have argued that such commands should only apply to Israel - not Christians.

But thankfully the list of pro-Sunday sources at the end of this email post - do not go for that. They admit that it is all TEN Commandments that are applicable to the saints.

And of course Paul agrees in Eph 6:1-2 as does Christ in Matk 7:6-13.

 

[Setyoufree]

Some have argued that such commands should only apply to Israel - not Christians.

But thankfully the list of pro-Sunday sources at the end of this email post - do not go for that. They admit that it is all TEN Commandments that are applicable to the saints.

And of course Paul agrees in Eph 6:1-2 as does Christ in Matk 7:6-13.

I'm stating that the 4th commandment changed from resting because of a perfect creation to resting because of God's perfect redemption of the Jews from bondage. Compare the two:

Ex 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy (set apart). 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work...(why?) 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day

Then, after Moses threw down the first set of tablets, he changes the reason to keep the Sabbath:

Deut 5:12 'Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work (why?)

15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

So the reason the Jews rested was not because of creation, but rather liberation from captivity. God did it all and all they needed to do was rest as a reminder they didn't save themselves from bondage.

 

[BobRyan]

I'm stating that the 4th commandment changed from resting because of a perfect creation to resting because of God's perfect redemption of the Jews from bondage. Compare the two:

Ex 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy (set apart). 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work...(why?) 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day

Then, after Moses threw down the first set of tablets, he changes the reason to keep the Sabbath:

Deut 5:12 'Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work (why?)

15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

1. Moses breaks the commandments back in Exodus.

2. Deut happens 40 years later.

3. BOTH Exodus 20 AND Deut argue that keeping God's Law for Israel is a particular binding command because God is their savior. This is the preface in Ex 20:1-3 for "Have no other gods before me".

To argue that God's saving Israel only makes them obligated to having no other gods is to miss the entire point.

Thus in Is 66:23 long after both Exodus 20 and Deut 5 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to worship" even in the New Earth - long after even the cross itself.

That is just one of the reasons that even pro-Sunday sources such as those listed below argue for the binding application of the 4th commandment upon mankind in Gen 2:1-3 - Adam and Eve - and still to this very day.

Notice that "Worship Him who CREATED the heavens and the earth and the seas" Rev 20:7 is found both in the NT and the OT as the basis for worship - applicable to all mankind "every nation tribe tongue and people".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[from scratch]

1. Moses breaks the commandments back in Exodus.

2. Deut happens 40 years later.

3. BOTH Exodus 20 AND Deut argue that keeping God's Law for Israel is a particular binding command because God is their savior. This is the preface in Ex 20:1-3 for "Have no other gods before me".

To argue that God's saving Israel only makes them obligated to having no other gods is to miss the entire point.

Thus in Is 66:23 long after both Exodus 20 and Deut 5 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to worship" even in the New Earth - long after even the cross itself.

That is just one of the reasons that even pro-Sunday sources such as those listed below argue for the binding application of the 4th commandment upon mankind in Gen 2:1-3 - Adam and Eve - and still to this very day.

Notice that "Worship Him who CREATED the heavens and the earth and the seas" Rev 20:7 is found both in the NT and the OT as the basis for worship - applicable to all mankind "every nation tribe tongue and people".

in Christ,

Bob

You've yet to produce any passage commanding the Sabbath in the New Testament. Why haven't you at least referenced such a passage?

 

[DarylFawcett]

MOD HAT ON!!!!!

Thread moved to Sabbath and The Law from General Theology.

MOD HAT OFF!!!!!

 

[LarryP2]

There is only one common theme that runs through every single important SDA doctrine, either overtly or subtly: Denigrating and Degrading the effect of the Resurrection, or denying the Divinity of Christ.

Unless you understand that, they will stitch together an impressive and mind-numbing stew of half-verses and unrelated and out of context verses to baffle the unwary, illiterate and non-Biblically savvy. It is an extremely devious and deceptive non-Christian cult. I wasted my first 22 years in it, so I know of what I speak. If you understand how their corrupt and un-Biblical system works, you need not debate then on their specific stitched-together rambling collection of half verses and verses taken out of context, because they all are held together with the common "glue" of denying or denigrating the divinity of Christ, or the effect of the Cross, or the effect of the Resurrection. Or all three.

First and foremost, the SDA Church would not exist were it not for their multiple false predictions of Christ's return between 1843 and 1850. They devised an amazing stitched-together and botched misinterpretation of Daniel 8:14 to repeatedly falsely predict the return of Christ. Throughout the cult's lifetime, there have been a truly-jaw dropping massive number of their own theologians who have denounced the 1844 scandal and its mutant bastard child: The Sanctuary Doctrine or the "Investigative Judgment(IJ)" Many of their own top theologians have declared the entire debacle unscriptural and unbiblical. Sadly, the cult's General Conference always fires their dedicated theologians and pastors for being honest about this clearly non-Biblical doctrine. Raymond Cottrell, their most distinguished theologian, waited until his retirement to denounce this Satanic and unbiblical doctrine.

Misusing Daniel 8:14 like that denigrates Christ, how? By making his return the subject of human prediction, by binding him time wise into your erroneous scripture-sculpting and stitching fetish. Like the Bible is some sort of esoteric code that only a few insiders can crack, rather than the extremely simple and plainly-obvious story of Gospel salvation that was given to the entire world at the Cross.

The IJ was strictly a face-saving fraud, devised out of thin air to compensate for the colossal disaster of 1844. The cult now posits Jesus entered the Holy of Holy places in Heaven in that year, to commence review of our conduct to see if we have earned our salvation with good works (in particular, Sabbath keeping). This necessitates an incomplete and unfinished work on the Cross, and a severe denigration of the effect of the Resurrection. This is the REAL reason that Adventist do not worship on Resurrection Day (Sunday and Easter) and insist on their Salvation by works-based Sabbath instead. They want to cow their terrified and panicked members into huddling together in paranoid fantasy, and relieving them of their money most importantly. They instill a paranoid and panicked fear of Roman Catholicism, who they falsely claim "changed Saturday to Sunday," and that one day the Catholics will hunt them down and murder them for keeping the Sabbath. That is a fairy tale that is pure, unvarnished paranoid conspiracy theory. Hence, their Sabbath keeping is really based on virulent Anti-Papacy paranoia coupled with an Un-Biblical fetish of Salvation by Works. Again, this entirely non-Biblical doctrine of Sabbath Keeping was absolutely proven false by their own theology professor, Dr. Samuele Bachiochi.

The IJ itself led logically to many satanic cult doctrines like Sabbath Keeping, Works based Salvation, following the Levitical dietary laws, and various forms of non-Christian and heretical views on the Trinity. In fact, for the first 100 years, the cult revived the ancient Arian Heresy and outright denied the Divinity of Christ. Due to the outcry from orthodox Christendom, they watered down their Arianism, and now deceptively teach a modified Aryanism known as Thritheism (while deceptively claiming they believe in the Trinity). It still is not the Trinity that has provided Salvation "once and for all" and that is THE CENTRAL doctrine of Christianity. The Adventist anti-Trinitarian heresy eventually spawned such overtly and odious Satantic cults such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, Worldwide Church of God and the Branch Davidians. Adventism is much more deceptive and thereby much more successful than those three satanic cults in that the genius of Adventism is to disguise mutant and unbiblical cult doctrines with a thin veneer of superficially Christian-sounding doctrines that disguise its true core. They even managed to sucker cult expert Walter Martin into believing that they were Orthodox Christianity, even though at the end of his life, Martin was ready to write a new book denouncing them as a non-Christian cult once he realized that he had been "Had."

So when they focus obsessively on the Sabbath (which in actual practice, is MUCH more important to them than the Cross or the Resurrection) beware of their perspective. Disregard their ludicrous scripture-sculpting and scripture stitching, and go right for the jugular: Their odious and anti-Christian history of teaching heretical cult doctrines that deny or denigrate the Divinity of Christ and his role in the unified Godhead of the Trinity, his finished work on the Cross and his Resurrection.
Last edited by LarryP2; 20th March 2014 at 02:01 PM.

 

[LarryP2]

Here's a thread that is all too indicative of the Adventist depreciation of the Resurrection and the Divinity of Christ. It is a thread on the Sabbath in the "Traditional Adventism" forums:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2560580/

I tediously scrolled down through each and every single post and found just four mentions of either "Jesus" or the "Resurrection."

Over 600 posts.

One thing we can be assured of, the Sabbath emphatically does not focus one's mind on the precious savior and his resurrection. We can also be assured beyond all reasonable doubt that Sabbath Keeping has NOTHING to do with Christianity.

 

[By Faith Alone]

3. BOTH Exodus 20 AND Deut argue that keeping God's Law for Israel is a particular binding command because God is their savior. This is the preface in Ex 20:1-3 for "Have no other gods before me".
Thus in Is 66:23 long after both Exodus 20 and Deut 5 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to worship" even in the New Earth - long after even the cross itself.
Bob

As Long as Israel was FIRST these laws affected mankind in general...HOWEVER... the olive tree was hewn to the roots at Acts 28.

Col 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a ...shadow.... of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Post Acts the rules change as Israel is now numbered among the gentiles and on an even plane.

Eph 2:14-16
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

All named denominations are the same and will fight tooth and nail and NEVER change doctrinal position even if the Sword cuts it down. You are no different.

 

[rstrats]

Among the Messiah, the resurrection and the Sabbath, which one is most likely to be disputed by Christians?

 

[LarryP2]

Could somebody please convince me that the Greek Pagan Gentile Christian converts observed the Jewish Sabbath, given specifically as a memorial to the Israelite slaves after they were delivered out of Egyptian captivity? Especially after the Council of Jerusalem in AD 50 only imposed the Noahide laws on them, and absolutely did not require them to keep the Sabbath? Additionally, Gentiles who had not converted to Judaism were subject to the Death Penalty for keeping the Sabbath or Torah reading.

Odd, that St. Paul would have taught them to keep the Mosaic Law!

Additionally, Seventh Day Adventism's own Andrews University "Sabbath Scholar," Dr. Samuele Bachiochi has proven that the early Christians unanimously were universally worshiping on Sunday no later than AD 135 because of the Bar Kokhba revolt's aftermath, wherein the Roman empire banned all Sabbath keeping. In doing so, Bachiochi inadvertently proved beyond all lingering doubt that SDA's founding prophet Ellen White was a colossal intellectual and prophetic fraud. She had "been shown" that the Pope had unilaterally "changed" the day more than 200 years later!!

Finally, I would like someone to address the complete ABSENCE in both White's and Bachiochi's published works of ANY mention of the Eastern Orthodox Church. The EO has detailed baptismal records dating back to AD 50 and is adamant that both Sunday Keeping and Pascha celebrations (Easter) commenced within the first year after the Resurrection. Given the EO's visceral hatred of Roman Catholicism, it would seem ODD given their insistence on this history, that the Roman Bishop had ANYTHING to do with the changeover.

 

[Elder 111]

I posted this ages ago though probably on a different thread.

God is Spirit and does not tire or need rest, rest pertains to the flesh, so when Genesis says that God rested on the 7th day it is a prophetic reference to the day in which God in the flesh, rested in the tomb.
He did not remain in the tomb however, but rose to life on the eighth day. This is the new day which the Lord has made. This day is not followed by night but is an eternal day with no end. It follows the Sabbath and supercedes the Sabbath because it is not bound by the endless cycle of seven days.

This not biblical. This is unsanctified!
God Himself said He rested. Ex. 20: 8-11. He wrote that with His own hands and spoke it with His own mouth. Is He a liar?

 

[By Faith Alone]

This not biblical. This is unsanctified!
God Himself said He rested. Ex. 20: 8-11. He wrote that with His own hands and spoke it with His own mouth. Is He a liar?

Another example of the carnal mind at work. God is spirit and that is the only absolute we know of Him as to essence. All other knowledge is in relative terms to His creation

Anthropomorphism:
Noun[edit]
anthropomorphism (plural anthropomorphisms)
The attribution of human characteristics or behavior to that which isn't human. [from the mid-18th c.]
(theology) the attribution of human characteristics to divine beings

He did not rest because He was tired. "Rest" is simply ceasing labor.


BTW. I posted this passage on a few occasions to you and never saw an answer. If you did ok. If not I would ask if you are a hit and RUN poster?
Col 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Are you to answer? Are you to run? We shall see.

 

[from scratch]

This not biblical. This is unsanctified!
God Himself said He rested. Ex. 20: 8-11. He wrote that with His own hands and spoke it with His own mouth. Is He a liar?

When did God return to work? Why is there no end of the 7th day of creation?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This thread is so obscofurated, I hope no one is listening !

i.e. don't trust anything said/posted unless after a few decades of prayer with thanksgiving God tells you what is right.

(Jesus said "take care who you listen to" , and "test everything" to make sure that it truly is what Scripture says (re like the Berean believers did))

one hint: check with Jewish believers to see what the high sabbath was and why it wasn't the day after 6th day.
also, don't use anything from the sda church as evidence for or against what the bible says - that's backwards way to do things.
instead, always always always, read the bible prayerfully to see what is true, like the Bereans did. don't trust men nor religion.
listening to men in any religion to define what is true is error.

 

[Elder 111]

Another example of the carnal mind at work. God is spirit and that is the only absolute we know of Him as to essence. All other knowledge is in relative terms to His creation

Anthropomorphism:
Noun[edit]
anthropomorphism (plural anthropomorphisms)
The attribution of human characteristics or behavior to that which isn't human. [from the mid-18th c.]
(theology) the attribution of human characteristics to divine beings

He did not rest because He was tired. "Rest" is simply ceasing labor.


BTW. I posted this passage on a few occasions to you and never saw an answer. If you did ok. If not I would ask if you are a hit and RUN poster?
Col 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Are you to answer? Are you to run? We shall see.

I highlighted your quote for you. The Seventh day Sabbath is not a shadow. It is a memorial of God's creation. Look at the commandment again!

 

[By Faith Alone]

I highlighted your quote for you. The Seventh day Sabbath is not a shadow. It is a memorial of God's creation. Look at the commandment again!

Heb 4:8-11
8 For if Jesus (Joshua) had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There ....remaineth .....therefore.... a rest.... to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest,.... he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[By Faith Alone]

When did God return to work? Why is there no end of the 7th day of creation?

God did not return to work in reconstruction...BUT...never has ceased working toward the goal of the purpose of the ages as seen in 1 Corinthians 15:28.