The Lord's day.

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Who said you were?

Go back and read your post as others 'might' read it. Please

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Wasn't the passover the event of the LORD sending the destroying angel to kill the first born of Egypt?

Yep. And that's not what Christian Pascha is about. (How is Pascha not in the dictionary on this site?)

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Not stealing is a Tradition Not committing adultery is a Tradition? God's Holy Ten commandments are Traditions? That is blasphemy!
​

Why don't you address my post about the tradition of worshiping on the Sabbath?

You refuse to acknowledge that there is one package the Ten commandments. As a matter of fact, that is why the Ten commandments is a problem. It has the Sabbath in it. If it did not, not one Christian would have had a problem with the Ten Commandment law.
You know what? God placed it there not Sabbath keepers!

 

[Elder 111]

I think the point Sophrosyne was making, was that the ten commandments do not state to worship God specifically on the Sabbath.

Which bible?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Wasn't the passover the event of the LORD sending the destroying angel to kill the first born of Egypt?
​

Yep. And that's not what Christian Pascha is about. (How is Pascha not in the dictionary on this site?)

.

Not sure, but perhaps it is because it is an english only site

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Search Multiple Dictionaries (including Easton's Bible Dictionary) :

pascha

noun
1. the Jewish feast of the Passover [syn: Pasch]
2. the Christian festival of Easter [syn: Pasch]


Pasch (pɑːsk, pæsk) — n
Passover an archaic name for Easter [C12: from Old French pasche, via Church Latin and Greek from Hebrew pesakh Pesach ]

.

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

I'm not going to use scripture. [...]

To the law and to the testimony ... - Isa 8:20
​

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

I'm not going to use scripture.

[...] 'took' and 'changed' meanings [...] We admit it.. it is intentional.

See Dan 7:25 about such 'changes'.

But what did Paul say?

1Co 5:7 εκκαθαρατε ουν την παλαιαν ζυμην ινα ητε νεον φυραμα καθως εστε αζυμοι και γαρ το πασχα ημων υπερ ημων εθυθη χριστος
​

Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: - 1 Cor 5:7
​

The Greek word is πασχα, Pascha. Christ Jesus is our Pascha {notice it didn't say Jewish Pascha}, and is so being the sacrifice, which took place upon the 14th of Nisan/Aviv, Friday [6th day of the week] afternoon, around 3PM.

Again, the first day of the week, Christ is the Firstfruits, as Paul also stated in 1 Cor 15:20,23, after He arose from the dead.

This is what the Scripture says.

The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Isaiah 24:5
​

 

[By Faith Alone]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Not stealing is a Tradition Not committing adultery is a Tradition? God's Holy Ten commandments are Traditions? That is blasphemy!
​

You refuse to acknowledge that there is one package the Ten commandments. As a matter of fact, that is why the Ten commandments is a problem. It has the Sabbath in it. If it did not, not one Christian would have had a problem with the Ten Commandment law.
You know what? God placed it there not Sabbath keepers!

Exod. 31: 13, 14, 17
Speak thou also unto the Children of Israel, saying Verily My sabbaths ye shall keep:for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations: that ye may know thatI am the LORD that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you . . . . . It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel for ever.

 

[Priest4Him]

See Dan 7:25 about such 'changes'.

But what did Paul say?

1Co 5:7 εκκαθαρατε ουν την παλαιαν ζυμην ινα ητε νεον φυραμα καθως εστε αζυμοι και γαρ το πασχα ημων υπερ ημων εθυθη χριστος
​

Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: - 1 Cor 5:7
​

The Greek word is πασχα, Pascha. Christ Jesus is our Pascha {notice it didn't say Jewish Pascha}, and is so being the sacrifice, which took place upon the 14th of Nisan/Aviv, Friday [6th day of the week] afternoon, around 3PM.

Again, the first day of the week, Christ is the Firstfruits, as Paul also stated in 1 Cor 15:20,23, after He arose from the dead.

This is what the Scripture says.

The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Isaiah 24:5
​

There is nothing in the Bible, not even a small indication that the sanctity of the Sabbath or seventh day was pass to the first day of the week (sun-day)

 

[from scratch]

There is nothing in the Bible, not even a small indication that the sanctity of the Sabbath or seventh day was pass to the first day of the week (sun-day)

We don't pass the sanctity of the Sabbath to Sunday.

 

[BobRyan]

I have been studying Revelation chapter1 and of course came across verse 10.
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Here John does not explain what he means by the Lord's day but a look at the Greek shows: Kyriakos (kü-rē-ä-ko's) meaning belonging to the Lord /related to the Lord.
Most of us christians accept without question that this refers to Sunday....
It there any biblical support for assuming that the Lord's day is Sunday? I have seen none, not one!
​

No biblical support for Sunday as the Lord's day.

But in Mark 2:27 and in Is 58:14 we find that the Sabbath is the "Holy Day of the Lord" and that Christ is "Lord of the Sabbath".


The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that
====================begin short summary
changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".


page 243

"nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"



====================================== begin expanded quote
. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243.))

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

=================================

 

[LarryP2]

Sabbatarians THINK they are keeping the Sabbath. They CLAIM they are. They really want the rest of us to accept their claims at face value, as though we are supposed to not think of how ridiculous and absurd they are.

But they are not keeping the Sabbath. They are not even CLOSE to keeping it. And at the same time, their cultish Ebionite Heresy drives them to imagine themselves superior to other Christians who worship the Resurrected Christ instead of their dead special Jewish day. The difference between Christians and Sabbatarians is that Sabbatarians are deluded into thinking they are keeping the Sabbath. Christians know they are not, and will never be able to.

Modern Sabbatarians are similar to an adolescent that fantasizes they are a brilliant General because they have watched a war movie. The "Sabbath" that Sabbatarians THINK they are keeping is a hilarious, Americanized Processed Cheese Product, Cheez Whiz version of the Sabbath. It bears NO resemblance to the Real Thing. American protestant "Sabbath Keepers" resemble someone that thinks Pizza Hut serves Italian food, or that Doritos are genuine Mexican food.

Christians who worship on Sunday have abandoned the laughably-absurd delusion that ANYBODY who is not a Jew is keeping the Sabbath.

 

[By Faith Alone]

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson,
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course 7th day groups

Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists
(and 100's of others)

And WHO, pray tell, is the FINAL authority??

Acts 17:11 These (Bereans) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[BobRyan]

Sabbatarians THINK they are keeping the Sabbath. They CLAIM they are. .

So also do the pro-Sunday sources at the end of this post. So trying to "spin" this as if "only Seventh-day Adventsts know enough to affirm the 4th Commandment" does not fly in real life. Pick another tactic.

 

[BobRyan]

And WHO, pray tell, is the FINAL authority??

Acts 17:11 These (Bereans) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Indeed it is the SCRIPTURES that say "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath REST for the people of God" -Heb 4. (Remains from WHAT?? from the time of David obviously as we see in the chapter).

Christ is LORD of the Sabbath (the Lord's Day0.

"The Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27.

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKiND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23.

The fact that even Pro-Sunday sources (like those listed below) also admit to these glaringly obvious bible facts - is not "a point against those who accept the Bible doctrine". Rather it shows "objectivity" and not "closed minded bias" on the part of the one noticing this detail.

Yet as Paul says in Rom 8:6-8 - the lost are forever at war with the Law of God.

 

[from scratch]

No biblical support for Sunday as the Lord's day.

But in Mark 2:27 and in Is 58:14 we find that the Sabbath is the "Holy Day of the Lord" and that Christ is "Lord of the Sabbath".


The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that
====================begin short summary
changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".


page 243

"nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"



====================================== begin expanded quote
. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243.))

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

=================================

Tell the people anything. Some of us wish to hear from the Bible. Before you say that's not true, I remind you of the prophets and God's Himself (Jesus).

 

[from scratch]

So also do the pro-Sunday sources at the end of this post. So trying to "spin" this as if "only Seventh-day Adventsts know enough to affirm the 4th Commandment" does not fly in real life. Pick another tactic.

Just like you do from the Bible - picking and choosing to support anything you like.

 

[Setyoufree]

Exod. 31: 13, 14, 17
Speak thou also unto the Children of Israel, saying Verily My sabbaths ye shall keep:for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations: that ye may know thatI am the LORD that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you . . . . . It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel for ever.

Okay, point taken....

What you are saying is that the Sabbath, as recorded in Deut 5:12-14, pointed to God's work of freeing the Jews from slavery and hence it is only for the Jew. Is that your point?

 

[Setyoufree]

Here's something to keep in mind when looking at the Sabbath as a sign or symbol:

God's Sabbath is always the 7th-day. That's a given.

The Sabbath always points to an act completed and finalized by God. When God is finished with that act then He rests.

Take creation:

Gen 1:31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

Gen 2:1 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.

So the idea here is God's work, creation, was completed after the 6th day. Nothing could be added to God's perfect and sinless creation for it was complete. Hence God stopped His work and rested the 7th day. His rest was a sign that His work stood complete and perfect.

 

[Setyoufree]

Here's something to keep in mind when looking at the Sabbath as a sign or symbol:

God's Sabbath is always the 7th-day. That's a given.

The Sabbath always points to an act completed and finalized by God. When God is finished with that act then He rests.

Take creation:

Gen 1:31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

Gen 2:1 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.

So the idea here is God's work, creation, was completed after the 6th day. Nothing could be added to God's perfect and sinless creation for it was complete. Hence God stopped His work and rested the 7th day. His rest was a sign that His work stood complete and perfect.

However, there's a problem with the Sabbath as it is linked to creation. It no longer points to perfect and sinless creation. Hence the Sabbath, as it points to this truth, is no longer valid. Keeping it as a sign of God's perfect creation is meaningless.

And yes, the Jews were delivered from bondage by God. His work was complete and then He rested. So the Sabbath, as connected to the redemption of the Jews from slavery, is for the Jew, not the Gentile.

Summary:

The Sabbath as it is connected to the deliverance of the Jews from slavery is a Jewish sign.

The Sabbath as connected to creation is meaningless. The Sabbath as connected to creation was never a Jewish institution. It was for mankind.

In fact after the fall of mankind, both God and His Son began work on the redemption of the human race. That's why Jesus said, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." John 5:17,18