Why dont SDA's and Sabbath keepers also keep the Feast Days of Leviticus 23 too???

[VictorC]

It is the annual sacrifices and offerings - feast days of Lev 23 that end with the sacrifices and offerings that instituted them.

You really do not know the Law.

The weekly sabbath is listed first among the feasts and convocations in Leviticus 23. Its listing as such is among the reasons Colossians 2:16-17 mentions the descending order: "let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come". Mentioning the feasts -which includes the weekly sabbath- and ordinances repeating in the annual, monthly, and weekly cycles doesn't omit the sabbath.

Also, it was you who brought up Hebrews chapter 10's mention of the various offerings, of which God shows no pleasure in.

Hebrews 10
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Bob, what is the significance of the burnt offerings?
What happened to the ordinances that drove these offerings?

And He -who is Jesus Christ- took away the 'first' in order to ordain the second covenant. That 'first' is defined in this epistle.
What happened to the ordinances contained within the 'first'?

Unlike the Ten Commandments - unlike the Gen 2:3 seventh-day Sabbath made for "mankind" Mark 2:27 and not "instituted in sacrifices" when given in Gen 2:3.

You do not know the Law.

Citing Jesus where He told us in plain language that the sabbath was "made for man" is the clearest indicator that it is not God's "My rest" recorded in the Genesis account. The sabbath would not exist for thousands of years after God's rest.

• The Genesis account doesn't record a rest observed by any human; the seventh day is in absolute terms rather than a repetitive cycle to describe God's rest.
• Exodus 20:11 clearly delineates the seventh day apart from the sabbath, using the same sentence structure found in Deuteronomy 5:15 that lists a single event in the past as the impetus to ordain the periodic sabbath.
• Hebrews 4 calls the seventh day of creation God's "My rest" that remained to be attained by a people who were already observing the sabbath, and Hebrews 4:4 quotes directly from Genesis 2:2 to document God's rest those who had the sabbath had not attained.
• Jesus distinguishes the sabbath apart from God's rest recorded in the Genesis account when He said it was "made for man" in Mark 2:27.
• Moses testifies that the ten commandments were unknown to the generation previous to his own in Deuteronomy 5:2-3, and lists the sabbath as a memorial of deliverance from Egyptian bondage in Deuteronomy 5:15.
• Nehemiah 9:13-14 attributes the origin of the sabbath with Moses.

Not sure there exists a way to miss this point.

in Christ,

Bob

Your point is reliant on ignorance of the Law. You never did explain your inconsistency in disposing the feasts of God, while retaining other ordinances while stripping them of their mandate of Holiness according to the Law. If you're to abide by the dictates of the old covenant, it becomes incumbent on you to embrace the entire package:
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.

 

[cyberlizard]

Maybe add in animal sacrifice and stoning too, as they are commandments from God as well

the post displays some serious failings in its grasp of scripture. Firstly, the bible only permits sacrifices now within a temple setting and unfortunately there isn't one at the moment.

secondly, stonings are by judicial instruction only requiring a properly functioning sanhedrin and again there is not one in place.

the torah does not permit for mob rule.


Steve

p.s. I like many other celebrate all the biblical festival days in the manner befitting a temple-less era.

 

[Sophrosyne]

For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.

Is it even possible to do them today? I don't see it possible to keep the Law properly so demanding it upon others is cursing them essentially.

 

[from scratch]

the post displays some serious failings in its grasp of scripture. Firstly, the bible only permits sacrifices now within a temple setting and unfortunately there isn't one at the moment.

secondly, stonings are by judicial instruction only requiring a properly functioning sanhedrin and again there is not one in place.

the torah does not permit for mob rule.


Steve

p.s. I like many other celebrate all the biblical festival days in the manner befitting a temple-less era.

IOW the law has no jurisdiction. Evidence courtesy of you. Thanks.

 

[from scratch]

So then with the annual feasts and annual Sabbaths of Lev 23 ended due to the Sacrifices and offerings ended - well that just leaves the TEN Commandments standing free and clear.

in Christ,

Bob

Then the whole law ended. Two natural blood Jews say the law is a single indivisible unit. Your statement contradicts support of Mat 5:17 implying the law is still viable and thus required.

 

[from scratch]

Umm, people celebrate Easter and Christmas without sacrifices. I know many that keep these feast days and do so perfectly fine without the sacrifices part.

That is a poor excuse you are using. You merely pointed out we dont need the sacrificial system for our sins anymore. Jesus said to keep the Passover, so that is proof atleast one of them is valid, but has been substituted.

Where did Jesus say such a thing?

 

[from scratch]

Indeed they do.

Many pagan feasts to the gods of hinduism as well.

Those traditions of men - stand on their own - but do not have Bible authorization.

However the Lev 23 list of annual feastivals and Sabbaths does have clear authorization by God - so God alone can declare them ended.

This He does when he negates the sacrifices and offerings that comprise them.

God never gave any authorization for the way to celebrate the feasts without the sacrifices.

People may wish "to make that up" which is fine - but then the authority for it "is man" not God.

in Christ,

Bob

Some people are actually humans and not robots with no mind or will.

 

[from scratch]

Indeed - they are very good at making up man made traditions ad hoc some of which violate the Word of God.

Christ mentioned it in Mark 7:6-13.

The fact that they "can make stuff up" does not make it authorized by God.

in Christ,

Bob

This is a summons to trouble.

 

[from scratch]

It is the annual sacrifices and offerings - feast days of Lev 23 that end with the sacrifices and offerings that instituted them.

Unlike the Ten Commandments - unlike the Gen 2:3 seventh-day Sabbath made for "mankind" Mark 2:27 and not "instituted in sacrifices" when given in Gen 2:3.

Not sure there exists a way to miss this point.

in Christ,

Bob

As I've shown such a position makes Moses and Ezekiel liars.

 

[from scratch]

The "Baptist Confession of Faith" the "Westminster Confession of Faith" the "Catholic Catechism", D.L. Moody, and many others - argue in favor of the 4th commandment as being included in the eternal "Moral Law of God" which includes all TEN of the Ten commandments.

And those are not even keeping the Seventh-day and yet they STILL affirm the moral-law standing of the TEN Commandments - ALL TEN, not a downsized-nine - that includes the 4th Commandment.

you seem to be missing that point though it is repeated dozens of times.

How does that keep happening?

As those sources admit - the Sabbath was kept by mankind starting in Eden and is part of the moral law - not based on animal sacrifices as were the annual holly days of Lev 23. Thus when Hebrews 10 ends the sacrifices and offerings "by Christ's ONCE For ALL sacrifice" it is not the moral law that is wiped out - it is the ceremonial law that is fulfilled and also ended.

The ceremonial law is predictive - the moral law is prescriptive.

in Christ,

Bob

Not one single one of the above mentioned keeps the 7th day Sabbath.

 

[from scratch]

It's an interesting thread you introduced. There is no excuse for the duplicity of those explaining why they 'keep' the Law concurrent with their disposal of the Law. But hey, this was observed long before we came to even consider the question.
Galatians 6:13
For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.

 

[from scratch]

As already stated in the quote above - the part that you snipped out -- (included here for reference)

But simply opposing these sources some of whom keep Sunday and some of whom keep the Bible Sabbath as God gave it - does not mean they are wrong in their decision to affirm what the Bible says about the TEN Commandments.



Well then would you like some quotes from those sources that show that indeed it is "Adam" and it is "In Eden" and it is "from Creation" that the seventh-day Sabbath was kept by mankind?

Would you find that helpful?

in Christ,

Bob

Your inclusion of 2 groups has been noticed to allow you to make such a statement, however it doesn't apply to the majority of that list.

 

[VictorC]

Is it even possible to do them today? I don't see it possible to keep the Law properly so demanding it upon others is cursing them essentially.

Shhh.
I'm waiting for Bob's answers to the questions I posted, and I don't want you to let the cat out of the bag! We have to be patient.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Shhh.
I'm waiting for Bob's answers to the questions I posted, and I don't want you to let the cat out of the bag! We have to be patient.

I think he is surrounded by a whole pride of lions and is still sprinkling himself with kitty litter and saying there isn't any cats.

 

[BobRyan]

Certainly it is true that some people do not like the theology of these groups below who affirm the TEN Commandments of the Bible as included in the MORAL Law of God under the NEW Covenant and binding on all the saints since Eden.

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson
Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists
and many others...


But simply opposing these sources some of whom keep Sunday and some of whom keep the Bible Sabbath as God gave it - does not mean they are wrong in their decision to affirm what the Bible says about the TEN Commandments.

When it comes to this thread - Hebrews 10 says it all - the ceremonial law ended - but the TEN Commandments remain as Paul points out in 1Cor 7:19.

All of the confessional and catechetical sources (excluding the seventh day advocacy groups you mentioned) you mention assiduously avoid teaching that any Christian is obligated to keep the seventh day.

As already stated in the quote above - the part that you snipped out -- (included here for reference)

But simply opposing these sources some of whom keep Sunday and some of whom keep the Bible Sabbath as God gave it - does not mean they are wrong in their decision to affirm what the Bible says about the TEN Commandments.

You said "since Eden" and I am not persuaded that is correct for all of the sources you've listed.

Well then would you like some quotes from those sources that show that indeed it is "Adam" and it is "In Eden" and it is "from Creation" that the seventh-day Sabbath was kept by mankind?

Would you find that helpful?

Your inclusion of 2 groups has been noticed to allow you to make such a statement, however it doesn't apply to the majority of that list.

Please list your "majority" and the quote that you think is missing since they all refute your idea of either eliminating or rejecting the TEN Commandments or downsizing them to nine - or rejecting the 4th commandment as applicable to the saints today.

Details matter. Post some.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The quoted post only explains why you don't keep the sabbath on the weekly cycle holy in accordance to the Law.

It is the annual sacrifices and offerings - feast days of Lev 23 that end with the sacrifices and offerings that instituted them.

Unlike the Ten Commandments - unlike the Gen 2:3 seventh-day Sabbath made for "mankind" Mark 2:27 and not "instituted in sacrifices" when given in Gen 2:3.

Not sure there exists a way to miss this point.

You really do not know the Law.

Interesting speculation. I prefer actual facts.

The weekly sabbath is listed first among the feasts and convocations

It is never listed as a feast - it is one of the days of holy convocation - it is weekly the others are yearly and were initiated in sacrifice and offerings.

Even our well-known list of sunday sources - admit to this "detail".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[VictorC]

It is the annual sacrifices and offerings - feast days of Lev 23 that end with the sacrifices and offerings that instituted them.

Unlike the Ten Commandments - unlike the Gen 2:3 seventh-day Sabbath made for "mankind" Mark 2:27 and not "instituted in sacrifices" when given in Gen 2:3.

Not sure there exists a way to miss this point.





Interesting speculation. I prefer actual facts.




It is never listed as a feast - it is one of the days of holy convocation - it is weekly the others are yearly and were initiated in sacrifice and offerings.

Even our well-known list of sunday sources - admit to this "detail".

in Christ,

Bob

Bob, this doesn't remotely address the bulk of my post. Nor does this answer any of the questions I asked you. Is this non-answer going to represent all you have as a defense?

 

[VictorC]

I think he is surrounded by a whole pride of lions and is still sprinkling himself with kitty litter and saying there isn't any cats.

My wife asked me why I'm wasting time with someone who can't seem to answer simple, direct questions. And you know what, she has a really good point, like always. No wonder I married her Anyway, Bob doesn't have any insight we can learn from - other than illustrating a reliance on obfuscation, misrepresentation of other member's posts, vain repetition, and deflection as a defense mechanism necessary to embrace Adventism.

Go ahead - let the cat out of the bag. It must be hungry by now...

 

[BobRyan]

You really do not know the Law.

The weekly sabbath is listed first among the feasts and convocations in Leviticus 23. Its listing as such is among the reasons Colossians 2:16-17 mentions the descending order: "let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come". Mentioning the feasts -which includes the weekly sabbath- and ordinances repeating in the annual, monthly, and weekly cycles doesn't omit the sabbath.

You are struggling with the 'Bible details' and in so doing missing quite a few.

1. ALL agree that Paul is singling out the ceremonial practices not the moral law when HE says

[FONT=&quot]“[/FONT]16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,
17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ;”
​

2. So the question is – whether the TEN commandments are Moral LAW – or Ceremonial. And specifically if the 4th commandment is ceremonial – based on animal sacrifices and offerings which end a the cross – or moral. (A number of even Sunday sources admit it is part of the moral law)

3. The 4th commandment Sabbath Ex 20:11 was given in Gen 2:1-3 before all animal sacrifices. (A number of even Sunday sources admit to this obvious point). Thus it is not a shadow pointing forward to the cross or to sacrifice. But a memorial.

4. The 4th commandment remains for all eternity for all mankind (Is 66:23) and the ceremonial laws were not given to “all mankind”. . (A number of even Sunday sources admit to this obvious point).

5. The speculation is that feasts, new moon, Sabbaths must be “yearly, monthly, weekly” but it is “Sabbaths” plural and used for feasts – annual feasts just as in “Hos 2:11 NASB

“I will also put an end to all her gaiety,
Her feasts, her new moons, her sabbaths
And all her festal assemblies.
​

6. There is No text establishing the weekly Sabbath as a feast or festival. Lev 23 specifically distinguishes between “These are the feasts” vs a day of “solemn rest” where there could be no feasting, just “holly convocation. But then “These are the feasts” in vs 4 is used to identify what follows.

3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.
4 ‘These are the feasts of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times (KJV, NKJV)
​

7. The command in Col 2 related to “judging others” – and in Matt 7:1-5 long before any ceremonial law had been abolished – Christ also condemns this work of judging others. That did not abolish the ceremonial law in Matt 7.

 

[BobRyan]

Also, it was you who brought up Hebrews chapter 10's mention of the various offerings, of which God shows no pleasure in.

indeed --- I did it like this...

Here we will see why Hebrews 10 is such a "hot potatoe" for some of our posters. And why it is so obviously the solution as to "why" we do not continue to keep ceremonial laws that are based in sacrifice and offering.

Heb 10
[FONT=&quot]3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, "" SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;
6 IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.
7 "" THEN I SAID, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME (IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME) TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.'''
8 After saying above, "" SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them'' (which are offered according to the Law),
9 then He said, "" BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.'' He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
13 waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]By the will of God we have been sanctified (set apart) through the offering of the body of Christ.


[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]KJV[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Vs 9[/FONT]
9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.



So then - Not many many times in a “continued” sacrifice



[FONT=&quot]Hebrews 8[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 12"Then say to him, 'Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Behold, a man whose name is Branch, for He will branch out from where He is; and He will build the temple of the LORD. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 13"Yes, it is He who will build the temple of the LORD, and He who will bear the honor and sit and rule on His throne Thus, He will be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two offices."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Heb 10[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
16 "" THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,'' He then says,
17 "" AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.''
18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.[/FONT]

===========================

Hebrews 10


Bob, what is the significance of the burnt offerings?
What happened to the ordinances that drove these offerings?

And He -who is Jesus Christ- took away the 'first' in order to ordain the second covenant. That 'first' is defined in this epistle.
What happened to the ordinances contained within the 'first'?

He took away the ceremonial law and my proof is Heb 10 by removing the sacrifices and offerings that initiated those ceremonies.

I thought we all - already agreed on that.

Not sure what your point is.

But Paul's point is that we have Christ's sacrifice (the second) and the animal sacrifices (the first).

in Christ,

Bob