More and More lazy stay at home wives

[mkgal1]

Exactly. Life is about adapting to reality (like you've experienced, Boidae). I really don't know anyone that has it all tied up in the typical and neat package that we've all heard about.

If you want to work this according to traditional beliefs.....personally, I think this proves as a good framework for godly leadership (loving your wife like Christ loves us). Like Hannah mentioned earlier......it's (marriage, I mean) about two becoming one:

Consider the heroine of The Wizard of Oz, for example. Dorothy is an emotionally connected transformational leader: She discovers the hidden talents of the scarecrow, the tin man, and the lion, and then encourages and challenges them to draw on their own potential. As a result, the characters become better versions of themselves; the team overcomes the obstacles along the way; and, ultimately, they all realize their destinies. Under Dorothy’s leadership, they create a vision together in which each member benefits from and contributes to the overall journey.~Letters to the Editor - Harvard Business Review

 

[musingsofacac]

Removed by OP.

 

[musingsofacac]

Removed by OP.

 

[mkgal1]

No both the husband and wife are to put their family first. But the way they do that is differently - that's where the big difference comes between conservative Christians who have a conviction about this and other Christians who think differently.

We believe that God created the man to be the primary provider, protector and leader of the home. Can a man go overboard on his career and neglect his wife and kids? Absiolutely! Men do it all the time. Yes the man should help his wife with the home, but that is not his primary responsibility, it is a secondary responsibility. The Bible talks about the man disciplining and training his children so he definitely involved in the raising the children as well. He is to love his kids.

Honestly.....you lose me when you start equating putting the other spouse first with domestic chores. People have more needs than clean laundry and clean dishes. Provision is more than a paycheck.

I can actually see a wife (traditional one) putting her domestic chores above the needs of her husband and children (so I just can't equate the two.....putting family first = domestic chores). I've had neighbors that literally locked the front door after they'd sent their children out to ride bikes so they can clean house. Once those homes are clean as a whistle......there's a lot of protection going on to keep it that way (at the expense of others trying to live there). To me.....that's putting a clean home as a priority.....not putting the people (the family) as priority. See what I mean?

QueSeraSera brought this up earlier....and I'm with her (trying to figure out exactly what "putting family first" really is):

The only alternative is that the husbands first priority is working outside the home and wife and children come 2nd ? I don't think so .Neither spouse should be "married to their job."

How that looks though (priority) is not measured in who does laundry and who does this chore and that . At least not in my book .Getting petty over this chore and that as evidence of family being priority is where it starts to get ridiculous. Yes everyone should pitch in so one person isn't having to spend all their time at home with family being the maid and the cook . The point would be to have time spent together.

I'm trying to figure out what it looks like for the wife only to have husband /children and home her priority regardless if they both work outside of home the same amount of hours?

 

[mkgal1]

I know it is my fault, I should not have believed her even though she pledged to honor what I believed was God's design for marriage and the family.

Well......you did sort of confuse the issue by having a discussion and both agreeing that it's acceptable that she remain working full time (in a managerial position, too.....right?). That's sort of misleading (IMO) about exactly what your convictions are. You even went as far as saying you *wanted* a working wife (not just that you'd accept it----you desired it) This is from your OP:

My second wife worked full time as a nurse when we first got married. She even asked me it would bother me that she worked full time and I was married to a stay at home mom before her. I said I wanted something different because my last wife, and few other stay at home wives of friends of mine were so lazy it drove me nuts, I had given up on stay at home wife's.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

Boidae,

I agree that sometimes we are called to step into roles that God did not intend because we live in a sin cursed world, where people get sick, disabled, divorced....ect.

We do the best we can in those situations. But we don't try to make the exception the norm.

We don't say because some men are disabled and some moms have to work, that its ok for everyone to do just leave their little kids with someone else simply because they are "bored". I see a huge difference between doing these things of necessity(which some of us here have had to do) and then just choosing it because we don't want to.

Again I realize this is all coming from a traditional conviction about family, and those who don't share that conviction will think very differently.

There's a "traditional" view of family and then there's an extreme. I think you're at the extreme Muse. You don't see that God gives people different gifts and talents. My daughter the nurse...should she quit being a nurse (along with every other female nurse) because she has a child? Really? It works for millions of families every day. Just because it's not how YOU see it doesn't make it wrong. You are the one who is stuck in some idealized Leave it to Beaver world.

Historically, except for the upper classes, women have always worked. They worked in factories (reference the Triangle Factory fire), they worked on the farm, they did not stay home, clean house and raise children. It wasn't until after WW2 that women had the ability to be SAHMs. Wages went up, people were able to get mortgages to buy homes, loans to buy cars and that afforded people a more middle class lifestyle with only one parent working. Things aren't like that anymore. Wages have actually decreased (in buying power) over the last 10+ years. A "starter" home in many areas costs upwards of $150,000. Can't buy a house on one income of maybe 35K/year. It just doesn't work that way.

I am one of the few that are blessed to be able to stay home and really have no crass concern for a dollar. Due to a generous retirement income from the Navy, a disability pension from my husband's civilian employer and a tidy trust fund from my uncle, we live quite comfortably. We have no medical bills to worry about, we own our home free and clear, all our vehicles are paid for and we have no debt. We are the exception rather than the rule.

I would highly advise consulting economic realities before you go on about women "abandoning" their children out of "boredom". This is not the 1950's. It's 2014. Maybe you need to adapt to the times, culture and reality instead of trying to force that square peg into a round hole.

 

[QueSeraSera]

I've had neighbors that literally locked the front door after they'd sent their children out to ride bikes so they can clean house. Once those homes are clean as a whistle......there's a lot of protection going on to keep it that way (at the expense of others trying to live there). To me.....that's putting a clean home as a priority.....not putting the people (the family) as priority. See what I mean?

I've seen that too . I had a neighbor like that growing up . I was rarely allowed in her house but when I was we were not allowed to sit on certain furniture, fix anything to eat, etc. We could play in her room but we were not allowed to sit on the bed because it would wrinkle the bedspread .

I saw a program once ,that Nanny rescue show . Her two young daughters were troubled .The Nanny quickly figured out the problem . The mother spent the majority of the day cleaning the house . The little girls even though they were "safe' and the mother fed them right, bathed and dressed them etc., were pretty much left to their own devices .They may have been about 4 and 6 years old . The little girls were having meltdowns and tantrums and fighting with each other all day .

 

[HannahT]

We believe that God created the man to be the primary provider, protector and leader of the home. Can a man go overboard on his career and neglect his wife and kids? Absiolutely! Men do it all the time. Yes the man should help his wife with the home, but that is not his primary responsibility, it is a secondary responsibility. The Bible talks about the man disciplining and training his children so he definitely involved in the raising the children as well. He is to love his kids.

But as opposed to the man, the woman's primary responsibility is as a helpmeet to her husband, and caregiver(a nurturer especially when the children are small) to her children and keeper of the home. I already know where all you stand on this - you think its all supposed to be even,but I and many other Conservative traditionalist Christians disagree.

I totally would admit that this conviction of mine causes stress in our marriage. I don't talk about it all the time, but my wife knows where I stand. The trick is finding a way to deal with this very difficult position. I am working on it and talking to different counselors about it. How can I stand my ground and still have peace in my home - that's a big question.

Anyone can go overboard Muse - anyone! That's not the point.

The point is adaptability.

You don't have a 'traditional' family at this point anyway. You have blended family. When you blend - you adapt.

You have a 'step' mother who is trying to adapt, and is bonding with your children. That is nurture.

I don't remember anyone stating anything about 'even' either. Matter of fact - they have shown example after example of just the opposite. Your hearing what you want to hear...lol although in the case 'reading' what you want to read.

If you do this with her at home? I can guarantee you most conversations along this line are going to be frustrating for both of you. You don't listen you dictate, and spin what is said in a negative way to fit your worldview.

You do realize that is highly unfair, and you don't gain ground doing that don't you? I mean seriously - how has it worked for so far?! THINK! Your intelligent!

You say your wife knows where you stand, but sadly you don't mention hardly anything about where she does. WELL, except for generalities like egalitarian thinking, and bored with staying at home.

That's the issue in a nutshell - again you want you want, and if you truly want to figure this relationship out? Adapt - not my way or the highway 'belief'.

The "WE" should be husband and wife, and not ME and the 'traditional' belief system.

The bible also speaks of not keeping score, and loving your wife as yourself.

So as far as standing your ground, and keeping peace? No. You can't have it all. Life never worked that way - ever. It has a way of throwing circumstances at us in which we learn to adapt, and grow! No worldview is perfect, and we can never live it to the final period in the mission statement. We are human after all. We have a tendency to screw things up royally no matter how hard we try.

 

[QueSeraSera]

I would highly advise consulting economic realities before you go on about women "abandoning" their children out of "boredom".

I agree that is a low blow . And besides that even if a mother has a realistic choice (to stay home or not ) if she chooses to work because SAH she finds quite unfullfilling and she is just not cut out for it that is not "abandonment."

 

[ProudMomxmany]

I've seen that too . I had a neighbor like that growing up . I was rarely allowed in her house but when I was we were not allowed to sit on certain furniture, fix anything to eat, etc. We could play in her room but we were not allowed to sit on the bed because it would wrinkle the bedspread .

I saw a program once ,that Nanny rescue show . Her two young daughters were troubled .The Nanny quickly figured out the problem . The mother spent the majority of the day cleaning the house . The little girls even though they were "safe' and the mother fed them right, bathed and dressed them etc., were pretty much left to their own devices .They may have been about 4 and 6 years old . The little girls were having meltdowns and tantrums and fighting with each other all day .

We had those when I lived in base housing...the kids ended up at my house. My house was/is usually a wreck but the kids have a blast. Guess it had more to do with actually interacting with the kids instead of having an immaculate house.

 

[QueSeraSera]

We had those when I lived in base housing...the kids ended up at my house.

Yes my friend and I that I mentioned ended up spending most our time at my house. Where we were allowed to play dress up , play my mothers record albums ,EAT LOL>>> Our entire front dining room was a playroom . We had everything . Easy bake oven , chalkboards you name it we had it . I hated going to her house .It was the difference between Disney world and a funeral home .

 

[HannahT]

I agree that sometimes we are called to step into roles that God did not intend because we live in a sin cursed world, where people get sick, disabled, divorced....ect.

We do the best we can in those situations. But we don't try to make the exception the norm.

We don't say because some men are disabled and some moms have to work, that its ok for everyone to do just leave their little kids with someone else simply because they are "bored".

Dude - sounds like God is asking your to step into a role you didn't intend!

You seriously need to drop the 'bored' deal. Your wife leaves them with you. If that isn't what you meant? The extremism seriously never works for anyone. Never has.

 

[HannahT]

We had those when I lived in base housing...the kids ended up at my house. My house was/is usually a wreck but the kids have a blast. Guess it had more to do with actually interacting with the kids instead of having an immaculate house.

At this point? We have one teenager and a young adult here.

We were always the 'gang's hangout'. lol We shop at Sam's Club to save money on BULK teenagers that snack alot!

The 'immaculate' deal? We dropped that years ago! The H grew up with a mother that had everything in its place, and everything had its place. It drove her - and everyone around her nuts if it wasn't that way too. She had four kids, and keeping up was a full time job - plus SOME!

Yes, its nice to see a house neat and clean...everything in its place. We also want to live life, and not worry about the small stuff. They have clean clothes, food to eat, decent environment, and the normal ups and downs of family life. So we sweep up the dog hair tomorrow after we get done doing family stuff. (Shrugs) It will be back day after tomorrow anyway. Living life to the fullest is the priority!

I had a friend growing up, and her parents that those plastic seat covers on all the furniture. lol and you still couldn't sit on them! SURE they had those sofa's 20 years later, but we had loads of fun staining our's!

 

[ProudMomxmany]

We go through family room furniture every 4-5 years! We buy new for the living room (rarely gets used), trash the family room furniture, move the living room furniture into the family room and buy new living room furniture!

I'd LOVE a neat/clean/tidy house...that ain't gonna happen with 2 big dogs, 4 kids still at home and my 16 month old grandson here 4 days a week. Its worse in the summer with wet towels (and kids) all over the place. Then again, I also said I'd love a driveway that didn't look like a used car lot!

I firmly believe that life is to be lived! The kids won't remember the hours I spent scrubbing bathrooms, but they will remember the time I spent with them. My big kids' favorite memory is when we moved into one house and I hung up the newsprint on the walls and let them draw on the newsprint paper. They don't remember mom cleaning anything...

 

[Boidae]

There's a "traditional" view of family and then there's an extreme. I think you're at the extreme Muse. You don't see that God gives people different gifts and talents. My daughter the nurse...should she quit being a nurse (along with every other female nurse) because she has a child? Really? It works for millions of families every day. Just because it's not how YOU see it doesn't make it wrong. You are the one who is stuck in some idealized Leave it to Beaver world.

Historically, except for the upper classes, women have always worked. They worked in factories (reference the Triangle Factory fire), they worked on the farm, they did not stay home, clean house and raise children. It wasn't until after WW2 that women had the ability to be SAHMs. Wages went up, people were able to get mortgages to buy homes, loans to buy cars and that afforded people a more middle class lifestyle with only one parent working. Things aren't like that anymore. Wages have actually decreased (in buying power) over the last 10+ years. A "starter" home in many areas costs upwards of $150,000. Can't buy a house on one income of maybe 35K/year. It just doesn't work that way.

I am one of the few that are blessed to be able to stay home and really have no crass concern for a dollar. Due to a generous retirement income from the Navy, a disability pension from my husband's civilian employer and a tidy trust fund from my uncle, we live quite comfortably. We have no medical bills to worry about, we own our home free and clear, all our vehicles are paid for and we have no debt. We are the exception rather than the rule.

I would highly advise consulting economic realities before you go on about women "abandoning" their children out of "boredom". This is not the 1950's. It's 2014. Maybe you need to adapt to the times, culture and reality instead of trying to force that square peg into a round hole.

I wanted to mention something about WWII and women. My grandmom actually went to Italy with my grandfather during WWII. She cooked for the soldiers on my grandfather's base. They also used both of them as interpreters. She was an amazing woman, but not a stay-at-home mom.

 

[QueSeraSera]

My big kids' favorite memory is when we moved into one house and I hung up the newsprint on the walls and let them draw on the newsprint paper.

Love that ! About a month ago I had my grandson and I figured out ?Why not use the garage wall as a canvas ? Paint and color whatever we want . It has all kinds of dents and holes in it (needs to be resheet rocked and painted) so why not decorate it in the meantime ? Like we were getting to do something "wrong" (drawing on the walls) when its not wrong .

Back to the topic though I think you brought up and what the big problem is ,some think of "traditional " as this view of 1950 middle class America . That particular era and some women's daily roles then is the exception in a long history . God did not design women to "stay home" looking pretty, cleaning and cooking for her husband , doting on children while the man "worked " . Sure if that is what you want . But that is not "the Biblical role " of wife .

 

[QueSeraSera]

I wanted to mention something about WWII and women. My grandmom actually went to Italy with my grandfather during WWII. She cooked for the soldiers on my grandfather's base. They also used both of them as interpreters. She was an amazing woman, but not a stay-at-home mom.

She does sound amazing .

 

[mkgal1]

I wanted to mention something about WWII and women. My grandmom actually went to Italy with my grandfather during WWII. She cooked for the soldiers on my grandfather's base. They also used both of them as interpreters. She was an amazing woman, but not a stay-at-home mom.

This makes me think of that verse again:

But I lavish unfailing love for a thousand generations on those who love me and obey my commands.~Exodus 20:6

 

[mkgal1]

Dude - sounds like God is asking your to step into a role you didn't intend!

Right. Wasn't that an issue Moses had (God asked him to step into a role he-Moses-hadn't intended)?

But Moses protested to God, "Who am I to appear before Pharaoh? Who am I to lead the people of Israel out of Egypt?"~Exodus 3:11

 

[sdmsanjose]

Quote of ValleyGal
But the fact is that he is taking steps and working in the right direction. Imo, and I are giving him credit for that.

Thank you VG for honestly pointing out some truths that BUILD up a brother that is in pain and is trying. Your last posts have given this thread some balance.