No new Mosques?

[smaneck]

Although it is the location of the First Building constructed as A Mosque in North America it is not the one the TV show was modeled after. That one is the Mosque locate on the Praire up North In Saskatchewan Province I believe or Maybe Alberta.

Yes, I know. It was actually a group of Baha'is who produced that series.

Little Mosque on the Prairie: Louhelen Baha'i School to Host an Evening With Executive Producers From the International | Reuters

A lot of Muslims immigrated to Canada as mink farmers.

Although now especially in the US it is becoming common for a local Islamic Society to form and pool together to build a Mosque.

The problem is because of the Islamic prohibition against interest, they can't take out mortgages to build their mosques.

some actually have full time paid Imams.

The one in Jackson does.

In most of the Mosques I attend typically the oldest person present acts as Imam. At my age I am almost always the oldest person present.

We'll start calling you Imam Woodrow. Are you a Haji as well?

 

[WoodrowX2]

Yes, I know. It was actually a group of Baha'is who produced that series.

Little Mosque on the Prairie: Louhelen Baha'i School to Host an Evening With Executive Producers From the International | Reuters

A lot of Muslims immigrated to Canada as mink farmers.



The problem is because of the Islamic prohibition against interest, they can't take out mortgages to build their mosques.



The one in Jackson does.



We'll start calling you Imam Woodrow. Are you a Haji as well?

No, sadly because of health it seems I never will be.

I was in Mecca once, while I was a Christian and did not realize I was not supposed to be there. that is what happens when you don't pay attention to signs. It wasn't during the Hajj and the City was quite empty. No body bothered me actually I was pretty much ignored.

 

[Zoness]

No problem. I am receptive to hearing all views. each of us has our own experiences that may often flavor our views and opinions. I find it very worthwhile to listen to and examine the views and opinions of other people. It is about the only way I can actually learn. I will never learn something new from someone who thinks the same as me.

Having been raised Roman Catholic I may be more aware of the alters being on the East side and have seen the same in all the classic Cathedrals I have seen. It is predominately a Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox thing. But world wide those make up over 60% of the people who wear the name of Christian.

Certainly. The US is a bit of an aberration in regard to being the banner of all manner of radical Protestants while at the same time still having a technical majority of Christians as Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox. Most people think puritan "Baptist" when they think of the US, at least in my experience.

 

[sunrise0]

You interpreted dhikr (remembrance) as Qur'an

dhikr is one of the Quran's names/descriptions:

there are many Quranic verses which shows this. here is one of them:
15:6. And they say: "O you (Muhammad ) to whom the Dhikr (the Qur'an) has been sent down! Verily, you are a mad man.

and added "from corruption" which is not in the Arabic Qur'an.

I did not add anything. I copied the translation of the meaning of the Quranic vesre from a source approved by the highest authorities .
it is important to know that the Arabic is the only Quran because it is the original, while all othe translations are man-made and might differ according to whoever made the translation.

 

[sunrise0]

Right, and on the Mecca website it says that Allah is a moon god and he hides in the Kabaa. In fact, you wrote such a thing yourself on this forum just yesterday...

... What do you mean you didn't write it! I'm telling you, it's in one of your posts! It's not there? Oh, that means you obviously deleted it!

Nice one but does not work:

was Jesus a catholic?

what about the other sources he asked her to refer to?

more importantly: why are you making such a big deal of something which has no value at all when talking about Christianity?

I posted a link which shows a number of ex-Christian priests who embraced Islam. can you tell us why they did so?

 

[sunrise0]

Who needs mosques when there are roads & parks & houses ...


Messenger of God (Muhammad) said: "All of the earth is a Masjid (mosque) except for the graveyard and the washroom." Jami` at-Tirmidhi 317 ... In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 169

Russia on it's way to becoming a Muslim majority military.!


Predicting a Majority-Muslim Russia :: Daniel Pipes
"By 2015, Muslims will make up a majority of Russia's conscript army, and by 2020 a fifth of the population. "If nothing changes, in 30 years people of Muslim descent will definitely outnumber ethnic Russians," Goble said." ... "and the possibility of majority of it being Muslim in 2050"


PIPES: Muslim Russia? - Washington Times

"Within a few years, Muslims will make up half the conscripts in the Russian Army"

great

 

[sunrise0]

Or all the Christians could convert to Islam and then everything would be a mosque!

Iam sure you disagree. but they will:

9:33. It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad ) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).

 

[sunrise0]

I'd imagine most Jews do know that we face Jerusalem, but some might not know why. Solomon, in his speech dedicating the Temple, stated that when we were carried off to other lands, we should pray toward the Temple for forgiveness and HaShem would hear our pleas and forgive us our sins. So, our synagogues are designed so that our services pray toward Jerusalem.

Later I will -God willing- post a seperate thread regarding the Temple

 

[sunrise0]

No, sadly because of health it seems I never will be.

I wish you the best

do not be sad or worry. one of the conditions for performing hajj is the capability for doing it.
the conditiond are health, financial and safety matters.
if any of these is lacking, then Hajj is not obligatory.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I wish you the best

do not be sad or worry. one of the conditions for performing hajj is the capability for doing it.
the conditiond are health, financial and safety matters.
if any of these is lacking, then Hajj is not obligatory.

One Blessing is that My Son-In -Law performed Hajj for me. A few years back. It was planned we would go together, but I was unable to.

In-Sha-Allaah Perhaps one day.

 

[TG123]

Nice one but does not work:

was Jesus a catholic?

No. Is Allah a Sunni?

what about the other sources he asked her to refer to?

Did you read my response? I looked one of them up- Encyclopaedia Britannica- and the article about the Catholic Church on there says nothing about it being started by Alexander the Great 300 years before Christ, or about it taking over Christianity in AD 325. I even posted the link to the article.

Estes either did not read the sources, or he claimed they say things they do not say. He clearly lied in either case.

more importantly: why are you making such a big deal of something which has no value at all when talking about Christianity?

If you are going to post a video about someone making wild claims about the Catholic church and how it allegedly 'took over Christianity' and the speaker provides fake sources, rest assured I will investigate and call them on it.

I posted a link which shows a number of ex-Christian priests who embraced Islam. can you tell us why they did so?

They believed Islam was true, and left their religion. Not unlike one of my friends, who was a Muslim and then left Islam to become a Christian. People converting to a religion does not make it true.

 

[All Englands Skies]

They believed Islam was true, and left their religion. Not unlike one of my friends, who was a Muslim and then left Islam to become a Christian. People converting to a religion does not make it true.

Muslims have a very childish view on the subject of conversion, one which consists of "People are converting so its better and true"

Ironically for all their boasting of people becoming muslim, they're the most insecure about people leaving islam, often punishing those who do and having a hissy fit over somebody who does leave Islam.

Also you cant get a true representation of conversion, when people who convert to Islam in the west get to boast and shout from the rooftops, while those who leave Islam in the Muslims world (and even Muslim communities in the west!!!) have to live in fear of punishment, wether official state sanctioned or un-official Mobs.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Muslims have a very childish view on the subject of conversion, one which consists of "People are converting so its better and true"

Ironically for all their boasting of people becoming muslim, they're the most insecure about people leaving islam, often punishing those who do and having a hissy fit over somebody who does leave Islam.

Also you cant get a true representation of conversion, when people who convert to Islam in the west get to boast and shout from the rooftops, while those who leave Islam in the Muslims world (and even Muslim communities in the west!!!) have to live in fear of punishment, wether official state sanctioned or un-official Mobs.

I abhor the concept of killing a person for leaving a religion. the Qur'an is quite clear there is to be no compulsion in religion. A person needs to be responsible only to God(swt) over their choice of religion. It is their own decision and they alone accept the result of the decision on judgement day.


Having been a Christian and now a Muslim, on a world wide basis, I do not see a person who leaves Islam as being in any more danger than a Christian who leaves Christianity. While typically "Christian Honor" killing are not called such I have found they do occur. Often called "Domestic Violence" with no further explanation. But I have found that it is not uncommon for a person who leaves Christianity in Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal to become a victim of "Domestic Violence"

I know more than a few American Christians that have reverted to Islam and are afraid to have any family members know. It is one of the most common concerns I hear from recent converts to Islam.

Speaking as I Muslim.

I do not know who is a Muslim. No one does. That is only known to the person and Allaah(swt). None of us can see into another person's heart and thoughts. To be a Muslim it means a person is submitting to God(swt) to the best of their ability. If a person is Submitting to God(swt) they are Muslim even if they do not yet know they are Muslim.

Any one can claim to be a Muslim and not be one. Likewise there are probably people who claim not to be Muslim and are Muslims.

We do not know who is or who isn't a Muslim, we only know who claims to be.Muslim


I think the same goes for all religions. We do not know, we only know what a person claims to be.

Just my opinion I do not believe a person is any religion if they are not willing to say they are that religion, no matter what the consequences.

In other words:

A Christian is not a Christian If they are not willing to say they are Christian, no matter what the consequences.

A Jew is not a Jew If they are not willing to say they are Jewish, no matter what the consequences.

A Muslim is not a Muslim If they are not willing to say they are Muslim, no matter what the consequences.

etc

I think some Missionaries play the threat of death card to show the need of more Evangelizing. and to be able to claim higher converts than they actually have.

I was once a Missionary "converting" Muslims. In my ego I thought I had won more souls than the numbers showed, because I believed most converts were afraid to say they were Christian.

 

[smaneck]

Muslims have a very childish view on the subject of conversion, one which consists of "People are converting so its better and true"

They are hardly unique in this, I see Christians using the same argument all the time.

 

[smaneck]

I abhor the concept of killing a person for leaving a religion. the Qur'an is quite clear there is to be no compulsion in religion.

Now Woodrow, how do you expect people to be able to hang on to their beloved stereotypes if you keep answering with sweat reasonableness?

 

[WoodrowX2]

Now Woodrow, how do you expect people to be able to hang on to their beloved stereotypes if you keep answering with sweat reasonableness?

Have no fear my friend, Do not underestimate the tenacity of humans.

People have a very remarkable ability to cling to desired stereotypical views, in the face of any evidence to the contrary.

This seems to hold true for all people and permeates through all races, faiths and national origins.

We all need to learn, people are individuals and look at each person we meet as being unique and not a factory produced, disposable, sales item.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Having been a Christian and now a Muslim, on a world wide basis, I do not see a person who leaves Islam as being in any more danger than a Christian who leaves Christianity. While typically "Christian Honor" killing are not called such I have found they do occur. Often called "Domestic Violence" with no further explanation. But I have found that it is not uncommon for a person who leaves Christianity in Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal to become a victim of "Domestic Violence"

I know more than a few American Christians that have reverted to Islam and are afraid to have any family members know. It is one of the most common concerns I hear from recent converts to Islam.

Speaking as I Muslim.

I do not know who is a Muslim. No one does. That is only known to the person and Allaah(swt). None of us can see into another person's heart and thoughts. To be a Muslim it means a person is submitting to God(swt) to the best of their ability. If a person is Submitting to God(swt) they are Muslim even if they do not yet know they are Muslim.

Any one can claim to be a Muslim and not be one. Likewise there are probably people who claim not to be Muslim and are Muslims.

We do not know who is or who isn't a Muslim, we only know who claims to be.Muslim


I think the same goes for all religions. We do not know, we only know what a person claims to be.

Just my opinion I do not believe a person is any religion if they are not willing to say they are that religion, no matter what the consequences.

In other words:

A Christian is not a Christian If they are not willing to say they are Christian, no matter what the consequences.

A Jew is not a Jew If they are not willing to say they are Jewish, no matter what the consequences.

A Muslim is not a Muslim If they are not willing to say they are Muslim, no matter what the consequences.

etc

I think some Missionaries play the threat of death card to show the need of more Evangelizing. and to be able to claim higher converts than they actually have.

I was once a Missionary "converting" Muslims. In my ego I thought I had won more souls than the numbers showed, because I believed most converts were afraid to say they were Christian.

On a World wide basis, People who leave Christianity just as much danger as those who leave Islam?

Oh come off it, now we're deluding ourselves are we?

The threat of death is very real, but like all those who convert to Islam, you end up deluding yourselves and pretending it doesnt happen, to justify your newfound religion. You know whats going on!, but because you've converted your now palming it off on your "ego" and brushing it under the carpet.

And as for numbers converting, Muslims are the ones who constantly play figures to boost there rates, so its bit rich of accusing us of tactics to boost our rates of converion.

Behind the vaneer of "Being reasonable" you're no diffrent to any other Muslim who betrayed Christianity and joined the ranks of the false prophet.

Muslims dont accept those who leave Islam for Christianity, so I reckon we should return the favour.

 

[smaneck]

On a World wide basis, People who leave Christianity just as much danger as those who leave Islam?

Oh come off it, now we're deluding ourselves are we?

The threat of death is very real,

Apostasy laws, while the exist, are very rarely enforced. More often converts can be subject to mob or family violence but that can go the opposite direction as well:

Pakistan: Christian Couple Who Converted to Islam 'Killed by Family' in Honour Killing | loonwatch.com

Historically there have been many more people executed for leaving Christianity or adopting a heretical form of it than have been executed for the same crime in Islam. This no longer happens today because the Enlightenment (an explicitly anti-Christian movement) made religion a private matter.

but like all those who convert to Islam, you end up deluding yourselves and pretending it doesnt happen, to justify your newfound religion. You know whats going on!, but because you've converted your now palming it off on your "ego" and brushing it under the carpet.

And as for numbers converting, Muslims are the ones who constantly play figures to boost there rates, so its bit rich of accusing us of tactics to boost our rates of converion.

Behind the vaneer of "Being reasonable" you're no diffrent to any other Muslim who betrayed Christianity and joined the ranks of the false prophet.
Muslims dont accept those who leave Islam for Christianity, so I reckon we should return the favour.

And if you had your way you would kill them.

 

[WoodrowX2]

On a World wide basis, People who leave Christianity just as much danger as those who leave Islam?

Oh come off it, now we're deluding ourselves are we?

The threat of death is very real, but like all those who convert to Islam, you end up deluding yourselves and pretending it doesnt happen, to justify your newfound religion. You know whats going on!, but because you've converted your now palming it off on your "ego" and brushing it under the carpet.

And as for numbers converting, Muslims are the ones who constantly play figures to boost there rates, so its bit rich of accusing us of tactics to boost our rates of converion.

Behind the vaneer of "Being reasonable" you're no diffrent to any other Muslim who betrayed Christianity and joined the ranks of the false prophet.

Muslims dont accept those who leave Islam for Christianity, so I reckon we should return the favour.

Oh come off it, now we're deluding ourselves are we?

It is not uncommon among Arab Christians.Although often Just the name is given and people assume they are Muslim.But sometimes it is noted the person is Christian.

Christian "Honor Killings" in the Mediterranean region often involves leaving Christianity or marrying a Non-Christian.

For example:

To get the whole story here you have to read 2 links

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]In the early hours of Sunday morning, Faten Habash died at the hands of her father, after being beaten repeatedly over the head, by what is believed to have been an iron bar. Her desperate cries drew people from the street, but they were too late and only her lifeless body greeted them.
This happened shortly after she had been returned to the family house from hospital, where she had spent a period of time recovering from a broken pelvis and various other injuries resulting from an earlier beating by her father and other family members.
The reason for this violence? Faten’s insistence to marry a man that her parents did not approve of. She tried twice in the last month to elope to Jordan, but authorities returned her to the family home, where the tragic events unfolded that led to her premature death and added Faten to a long list of women who have been victims of family "honour".
[/FONT]

SOURCE

Hiding behind honor
by Joharah Baker and Omar Karmi
FATHER IBRAHIM says he insisted on a Friday requiem mass for 23-year-old Faten Habash. It was unusual procedure for the Latin Catholic parish in Ramallah. Normally, the family of the deceased would request a special mass, but the Habash family made no such request.

Faten’s father had admitted to killing his own daughter on May 2. He killed her, he told police, for “reasons of honor”. The family refused to host the traditional three days of condolences for the young woman, and while reportedly at the funeral – the father, who has remained unnamed in public records, was released from police custody for two hours to attend – they sat at the back.

SOURCE

Although Honor killings among Christians are probably more common among Palestinian Christians, they do occur in other Nations.
From an anti-Islamic site

Honour killing also happens in Christian communities in the Mediterranean and other regions. The culture of Ancient Rome allowed the father to kill his children if he deemed necessary. Honour killing was only abolished as a specific category in Italy in 1981, and murders in the name of honour still occur in the country. In 2006, Bruna Morito was shot six times in the face by her brother for bearing a child outside marriage. In Brazil, men could be acquitted for murdering their wives up until 1991, and there have been 800 recorded such murders in a single year. Even in 1991, a lower court ignored the ruling of the Supreme Court and acquitted Joao Lopes for the double homicide of his wife and her lover. In fact, the opposition of the woman as the vessel of familial honour and the man as its protector was widespread throughout the southern European region, although it is not clear how many murders are committed in the name of honour at the present time.
Even within the Middle East, honour killing is not restricted to Muslims. In Yemen, a Jewish father killed his daughter after a rebuke from the rabbi for her extra-marital pregnancy, and in Palestine, in 2005, Faten Habash was beaten to death with an iron bar, wielded by her Christian father because she wanted to marry her Muslim boyfriend.

SOURCE

If you look closely just as some who wear the Name of Muslim do not follow Islam you will find Christians who do not follow Christianity and commit atrocitieS IN THE NAME OF Christianity.

A group of vigilante Christians have killed at least 12 Muslims, including a pregnant woman and 10 children, in the Central African Republic.
The gang of Christians disembowelled the pregnant woman and slashed the children with machetes in the attack against Peuhl Muslims.
The attack took place around 95km north of the capital Bangui, AFP reports
A military source said: "The assailants were seen not far from the camp and they returned in the night to attack the herdsmen who were there with just knives

SOURCE

I see no reason to dwell on the topic. but if you need more information I can be more specific about Christians killed for leaving Christianity in Italy, Spain and other Mediterranean countries.

It is true many Muslims do not accept people who leave Islam. but I have found many Christians do not accept people who leave Christianity.


Although I probably faced more hate from Christian relatives during my 25 years as an Atheist than I do as a Muslim.

As far as defending Islam as a means of protecting my ego? I don't really see that as even though I am Muslim I still continue to question all things and always seek out other views.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I also think it has a lot to do with the close connection the state has with the Russian Orthodox Church as well. This is the same reason the government of Russia is prohibiting the building of a new Hindu temple. The Hindus were promised they could rebuild after the demolition of their previous temple but they never actually allowed it. The local bishop, Archbishop Nikon, urged the state to forbid rebuilding saying that Krishna was Satan** and all that jazz. Right wing fundamentalist religion is a threat all around the world. It's very bad in much of the Middle East but it isn't limited to that region as this and other examples of bigotry show.

Here is the Archbishops turgid Pat Robertson worthy rant to the Russian government :

Lord Krishna “an evil demon, the personified power of hell opposing God”, and “a livid lascivious youth”,.....“an idolatrous disgrace erected for the glory of the wicked and malicious ’god’ Krishna”.....“Construction of the temple (a satanic obscenity destined to be built right in the heart of the Orthodox Christian country of Russia) to Krishna offends our religious feelings and insults the thousand-year religious culture of Russia where the overwhelming majority of people, Christians and Muslims included, consider Krishna an evil demon, the personified power of hell opposing God,” said the archbishop’s letter.