No new Mosques?

[smaneck]

That's because the presence of God was in the innermost part of the Temple. That's different from bowing towards the former temple of Aphrodite (mandatory for Muslims) or kissing a meteorite shaped as a vagina (popular among Muslims).

What's next? Are you going to call the steeples on churches phallic symbols?

The Kaaba was never a temple to Aphrodite. Muslims believe it was built by Abraham and Ismael and dedicated to the worship of God. Only later was turned into a house of idols just as the Temple was turned into 'a den of thieves' according to Jesus.

 

[Crypto]

What's next? Are you going to call the steeples on churches phallic symbols?

The Kaaba was never a temple to Aphrodite. Muslims believe it was built by Abraham and Ismael and dedicated to the worship of God. Only later was turned into a house of idols just as the Temple was turned into 'a den of thieves' according to Jesus.

According to Islamic tradition pilgrims from all over Arabia used to come to Mecca to worship. What do you think they worshiped? This is what John of Damascus wrote in 730 A.D.:

"“They [Muslims] call us associators (hetairiastas) because, they say, we introduce to God an associate by saying Christ is the Son of God and God. To them we say that the prophets and the scripture have transmitted this, and you, as you affirm, accept the prophets …
Again we say to them: “How, when you say that Christ is the Word and Spirit of God, do you revile us as associators? For the Word and the Spirit are inseparable … So we call you mutilators (koptas) of God … They misrepresent us as idolaters because we prostrate ourselves before the cross, which they loathe.
And we say to them: “Why then do you rub yourselves on a stone at your Ka’ba (Chabatha) and hail the stone with fond kisses?” … This, then, which they call “stone,” is the head of Aphrodite, whom they used to worship and whom they call Chabar.”

You say that Abraham build the Ka'aba. However, you have absolutely no evidence for that. It is just an empty claim, like most Islamic claims.

 

[smaneck]

According to Islamic tradition pilgrims from all over Arabia used to come to Mecca to worship. What do you think they worshiped?

I told you Arabs turned it into a house of idols.

This is what John of Damascus wrote in 730 A.D.:

Taking John of Damascus' word for what the Arabs were doing is a little like taking the Romans word for it that what happened in the Christian eucharist was a form of cannibalism. Sorry but if the black stone is a meteorite, it isn't the head of Aphrodite.

You say that Abraham build the Ka'aba. However, you have absolutely no evidence for that. It is just an empty claim, like most Islamic claims.

You are right. There is no historical evidence that Abraham even existed. I believe in his existence based purely because my scriptures say so, same as you.

 

[Crypto]

I told you Arabs turned it into a house of idols.



Taking John of Damascus' word for what the Arabs were doing is a little like taking the Romans word for it that what happened in the Christian eucharist was a form of cannibalism. Sorry but if the black stone is a meteorite, it isn't the head of Aphrodite.



You are right. There is no historical evidence that Abraham even existed. I believe in his existence based purely because my scriptures say so, same as you.

It was always a house of idols and it is also a house of idolatry now. You don't believe that God is inside the Kaaba. So, why do you bow down before it? You don't believe that God is inside that vagina-shaped meteorite. So, why do you kiss it?

By the way, the Bible was written by people who actually had a connection to the protagonists of the stories. Muhammad had no connection whatsoever to Abraham or Ishmael or any other character in the Bible.

John of Damascus describes your theology very well, and he even mentions some chapters of the Koran that are no longer there. Oops, it seems that the Koran is not so unchanged.

 

[simplegifts]

That's because the presence of God was in the innermost part of the Temple. That's different from bowing towards the former temple of Aphrodite (mandatory for Muslims) or kissing a meteorite shaped as a vagina (popular among Muslims).

Leviticus 16
2 The Lord said to Moses: “Tell your brother Aaron that he is not to come whenever he chooses into the Most Holy Place behind the curtain in front of the atonement cover on the ark, or else he will die. For I will appear in the cloud over the atonement cover.

Exodus 25
22 There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.

 

[Crypto]

Leviticus 16
2 The Lord said to Moses: “Tell your brother Aaron that he is not to come whenever he chooses into the Most Holy Place behind the curtain in front of the atonement cover on the ark, or else he will die. For I will appear in the cloud over the atonement cover.

Exodus 25
22 There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Taking John of Damascus' word for what the Arabs were doing is a little like taking the Romans word for it that what happened in the Christian eucharist was a form of cannibalism. Sorry but if the black stone is a meteorite, it isn't the head of Aphrodite.

Yet its fine to take Muhammeds word that that Christian scruptures are all altered and unreliable. The point you've made can be used against him.

Its also an Irony, that Islam builds most of its bedrock on claiming how "Corrupted" Judeo-Christian scripture is, yet its Islamic "scripture" itself that twists and alters everything from the ground up, changing Biblical stories, changing the Judaic Line of lineage to Ishmael over Isaac, denying the Crucifiction, this is the biggest red light that seems to be constanly over looked, even by Christians ourselves, the Bible specifically warns about false prophets, who will preach a diffrent version of Christ and deny the Crucifiction and low and behold 600 years later theres a "prophet", tellig us a diffrent version of Christ and saying he was not crucified, that one point alone, trumps Islam, as its too much to be a coincidance, regardless of what Muslims say, Muslims are the Crucifiction-denyers, end of. Many people convert to Islam because it succeeds it feeding there doubts about Christianity, but they then just take Islam on face value, a line of thinking that goes along the lines of "Well Christianity doesnt make sense to me, so Islam must be the truth", they than go onto not have any critical thinking about Islam.

Its a common M.O of the greatest liars to accuse there opponents of what they are really doing themselves (changing Gods word) Islam builds its bedrock upon it.

 

[WoodrowX2]

OK


sorry interrupt your explanations, just NOTE for you, that Christians face alter/cross is not God's command but it's church command.
The church applies this rule is to harmonize people who serve God in the same faith.
Both Christians and the Church acknowledge this...so, it's not God's command, for God Himself had said "You shall not bow down to their gods or serve them or do after their works; but you shall utterly overthrow them and break down their pillars and images."(Exodus 23:24)

please understand the different between the Church command, and God's command.
That makes me wondering is... Allah asked the follower to bow/even sujood face on Kaa'ba, Hajar al-aswad particularly

Catholic is a religion, base on God but rules and found by human being.


Understand, thank you.


the different is only, God never asked HIs follower to worship/bow to anything beside Him, and God's direct command to His follower regarding prayer was:
(Matthew 6:5-6)


Prayer

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.



yes, maybe.. because pray is our communication with God privately.. and as a non-Muslims I know that God would never wanted His creature to worship other than He.
So curious, how come there are God(the True One) command human being to worship face on something like in the pict above..
no offence

I have not adequatly addressed the problem you seem to have with the Hajar al-Aswad which is basically a window to look inside the Ka'abah at the remnants of the alter.

The shape of the window evolved out of functionality The desired thing was to have a window at the corner. Originally there was no problem as the number of Muslims for Hajj was just a few Thousand, and during Hajj they could enter the Ka'abah. But now nearly 2,000,000 arrive for the Hajj. It is obvious the vast majority circumventing the Ka'abah will never get close enough to get a glance through the window. The best they can do is see the Silver Location of the window. The shape appears as a Broad silver band to people in the outermost circles.

About the only time a person can have an opportunity to actually look into the window would be to go to Mecca when the Hajj is not taking place.

The Hajj is done once a year during the 8th to 12th day of the last Month of the Islamic Calendar ( Dhu al-Hijjah) Quite a challange to get 2,000.000,000 people to do the exact same things at the same time for 4 days. No way you are going to get them all to kiss a rock fragment at the same time. No way this could be an obligation for Muslims.

 

[smaneck]

You may not have noticed. The member (Smaneck) you are replying back to is not Muslim.

She also probably has more justification to be anti-Muslim than any member on this forum.

Indeed I do. But I can distinguish between what Muslims have done and what the Prophet and the Qur'an teaches.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

That's because the presence of God was in the innermost part of the Temple.

It's always different when ones own religion does it. It's only bad when other people do it. That's the basic law of religious one upsmanship. God's presence is actually in ones own temple just not the other guys.

 

[smaneck]

Yet its fine to take Muhammeds word that that Christian scruptures are all altered and unreliable. The point you've made can be used against him.

Muhammad never said that the Christian scriptures were altered and unreliable. What He said was that the *Jews* had perverted their scriptures. He appears to have been referring to the way they interpreted their scriptures, not the text itself. In regards to the Gospel Baha'u'llah says:

"We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence! How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also? What would be left to that people to cling to from the setting of the day-star of Jesus until the rise of the sun of the Muḥammadan Dispensation? What law could be their stay and guide?. . . Above all, how could the flow of the grace of the All-Bountiful be stayed? How could the ocean of His tender mercies be stilled? We take refuge with God, from that which His creatures have fancied about Him! Exalted is He above their comprehension!"

He also says:

"Verily by “perverting” the text is not meant that which these foolish and abject souls have fancied, even as some maintain that Jewish and Christian divines have effaced from the Book such verses as extol and magnify the countenance of Muḥammad, and instead thereof have inserted the contrary. How utterly vain and false are these words! Can a man who believeth in a book, and deemeth it to be inspired by God, mutilate it? Moreover, the Pentateuch had been spread over the surface of the earth, and was not confined to Mecca and Medina, so that they could privily corrupt and pervert its text. Nay, rather, by corruption of the text is meant that in which all Muslim divines are engaged today, that is the interpretation of God’s holy Book in accordance with their idle imaginings and vain desires. And as the Jews, in the time of Muḥammad, interpreted those verses of the Pentateuch, that referred to His Manifestation, after their own fancy, and refused to be satisfied with His holy utterance, the charge of “perverting” the text was therefore pronounced against them. Likewise, it is clear, how in this day, the people of the Qur’án have perverted the text of God’s holy Book, concerning the signs of the expected Manifestation, and interpreted it according to their inclination and desires."

Its also an Irony, that Islam builds most of its bedrock on claiming how "Corrupted" Judeo-Christian scripture is, yet its Islamic "scripture" itself that twists and alters everything from the ground up, changing Biblical stories, changing the Judaic Line of lineage to Ishmael over Isaac,

It does nothing of the sort. It merely *includes* Ishmael as a partner in the Covenant. If he wasn't then why was he circumcised?

denying the Crucifiction

The denial of the Crucifixion is, in my opinion, based on a misunderstanding of the Qur'anic verses in this regard.

,

the Bible specifically warns about false prophets, who will preach a diffrent version of Christ and deny the Crucifiction

Actually, no. The Bible specifically warns about those who would deny that Christ came in the flesh.

 

[smaneck]

It's always different when ones own religion does it. It's only bad when other people do it. That's the basic law of religious one upsmanship. God's presence is actually in ones own temple just not the other guys.

Actually Muslims don't claim that God's presence is specifically in Kaaba. What they are doing on pilgrimage is ritually re-enacting to the story of Abraham and Ismael.

 

[Vanilla Scripture]

I must admit the terms Russia and Mosques, seem incompatible in the first place.

Russia is in quite a predicament when it is now said, at least in this report, that Russia has allowed itself to need the Muslim immigrants. Being unable to survive without them now was not a wise move early on.

 

[smaneck]

I must admit the terms Russia and Mosques, seem incompatible in the first place.

Russia is in quite a predicament when it is now said, at least in this report, that Russia has allowed itself to need the Muslim immigrants. Being unable to survive without them now was not a wise move early on.

Muslims have always been the underclass within the Soviet Empire. It was inevitable as soon as Russia began moving eastward in the 16th century. Had the old Soviet Union remained together Muslims would now make up the majority of the population. They already made up the bulk of the military before it split up.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Pretending that Muslims are worshiping the vagina of some ancient goddess no one even knows about save a few scholars is about as absurd as the people dissing Christian for having Christmas trees claiming that we are actually worshiping some long forgotten Canaanite goddess we don't even know the name of. Problem is worship is a matter of intention and will so it doesn't work that way. Muslims , rightly or wrongly, trace that Kaaba to one of their Prophets (Abraham though some even say it had earlier origins having been built by Adam but that Abraham re-built it). Their intention in making use of it and kissing the stone is to honor Allah and the prophetic tradition not worshiping a goddesses vagina. Even IF it were such a thing in the past it isn't now.

I wonder if people would reject Christianity if they found out one day that the Temple of Solomon was built near or on top of the ruins of a "pagan" temple. Things like that happen all the time so it isn't too far fetched that it could be the case. Most of the great medieval and ancient Churches of both Eastern and Western Europe were built over older "pagan" holy sites for example.

 

[Crypto]

You may not have noticed. The member (Smaneck) you are replying back to is not Muslim.

She also probably has more justification to be anti-Muslim than any member on this forum. But she is one of the most repectable people I have ever come across on a forum as she sticks to facts and not accusations nor opinions.

Muslims seldom admit that they are Muslims if they are engaged in cultural jihad, as she is. Cultural jihad is the spread of Islam in the non-Islamic world. It is like preaching, but it is not exactly the same, since when you are engaged in cultural jihad it is OK for you to lie about any topic and even about you being a Muslim. They are allowed to do so because they have a concept called Taqqiya:

"Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them."

If you go to the "moderate" Islamic websites you'll find that almost all of them allow you to read commentaries to the Koran written by a scholar called Maududi. This shows how crafty they are when it comes to cultural jihad. Maududi wrote several books. These are some excerpts, from an Islamic website:

"But Islam is not the name of a mere “Religion”, nor is Muslim the title of a “Nation”. The truth is that Islam is a revolutionary ideology which seeks to alter the social order of the entire world and rebuild it in conformity with its own tenets and ideals. “Muslims” is the title of that “International Revolutionary Party” organized by Islam to carry out its revolutionary programme. “Jihad” refers to that revolutionary struggle and utmost exertion which the Islamic Nation/Party brings into play in order to achieve its objectives."

"It is to serve this end that Islam seeks to press into service all the forces which can bring about such a revolution. The term which covers the use of all these forces is ‘Jihad’. To alter people’s outlook and spark a mental and intellectual revolution through the medium of speech (*) and the written word is a form of Jihad. To change the old tyrannical system and establish a just new order by the power of the sword is also Jihad, as is spending wealth and undergoing physical exertion for this cause."

"Those who affirm their faith in this ideology become members of the party of Islam and enjoy equal status and equal rights, without distinctions of class, race, ethnicity or nationality. In this manner, an International Revolutionary Party is born, to which the Qur’an gives the title of Hizb-Allah* (literally, “The Party of Allah&#8221, otherwise known as the Ummah (Nation) of Islam. As soon as this party is formed, it launches the struggle to attain the purpose for which it exists. The rationale for its existence is that it should endeavour to destroy the hegemony of an un-Islamic system, and establish in its place the rule of that social and cultural order which regulates life with balanced and humane laws, referred to by the Qur’an by the comprehensive term “the Word of Allah”. If this party fails to strive to effect a change in the government and establish the Islamic system of government, then it loses its very raison detre, for this party exists for no other purpose. There is no other purpose for this party but to strive for the cause of Allah."

"Hence a person or a group are compelled by the innate demands of their faith to strive for the elimination of the rule of an opposing ideology, and for the setting up of a government which follows the programme and policies of their own faith-for under the authority of a government which professes inimical doctrines, that person or group cannot fully act upon their own convictions. If those people evade their duty of actively striving for this purpose, the clear implication is that they are hypocrites, and not sincere in their faith."

http://www.teachislam.com/dmdocument...rram_Murad.pdf

TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Taqiyya and Lying

 

[Crypto]

Pretending that Muslims are worshiping the vagina of some ancient goddess no one even knows about save a few scholars is about as absurd as the people dissing Christian for having Christmas trees claiming that we are actually worshiping some long forgotten Canaanite goddess we don't even know the name of. Problem is worship is a matter of intention and will so it doesn't work that way. Muslims , rightly or wrongly, trace that Kaaba to one of their Prophets (Abraham though some even say it had earlier origins having been built by Adam but that Abraham re-built it). Their intention in making use of it and kissing the stone is to honor Allah and the prophetic tradition not worshiping a goddesses vagina. Even IF it were such a thing in the past it isn't now.

I wonder if people would reject Christianity if they found out one day that the Temple of Solomon was built near or on top of the ruins of a "pagan" temple. Things like that happen all the time so it isn't too far fetched that it could be the case. Most of the great medieval and ancient Churches of both Eastern and Western Europe were built over older "pagan" holy sites for example.

Allat or Al-lat is a well known goddess from Mecca. This is the reason why they kiss that black stone.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]"There were, in pagan times, seven priestesses at site of the Black Stone, who circled it seven times, naked. Today, the tawaf, the sevenfold counterclockwise circuit of the Ka'bah, is a memory of that ancient practice. But the older practice is itself a strong echo of the descent of the Sumerian goddess Inanna (and her Babylonian equivalent Ishtar) through the seven gates of the underworld, the gatekeepers demanding the removal of a garment at each gate until she stands naked before her elder sister Ereshkigal, 'Queen of the Great Earth', the goddess of death and the underworld. Another name for Ereshkigal is Allatu, 'the goddess', which is clearly an earlier form of Al'Lat/Alilat."[/FONT]

At the Edge: Goddess of the Black Stone

The temple of Solomon is not a pagan temple because we worship the true God. Islam worships a false god, which is Satan in disguise. By the way, when the Muslims walk around the Ka'bah they don't use any underwear, since they need to be naked, like the priestesses of the pagan gods.

More about the goddess:

"At Mecca, the Goddess was ‘Shaybah’ or’ Sheba’, the Old Woman, which was worshipped as a black aniconic stone like the Goddess of the Scythian Amazons. The sacred Black Stone that now enshrines in the Kaaba was her feminine symbol, marked by the sign of the yoni (vagina), and covered like the ancient Mother by a veil. No one seems to know exactly what it is supposed to represent today?"

http://www.islam-watch.org/Lennard/Islam-Sacred-Stone-of-Mecca.htm

 

[Crypto]

In the first place Allat is not Aphrodite, the Greek goddess of love. Herodutus appears to have been somewhat confused about this but then he thought Mitra was Aphrodite as well. (Mitra was a pre-Zoroastrian god of covenants and the sun.) While there was an idol of Allat in the Kaaba (as their were idols of all of the pre-Islamic Arab deities), Allat's temple was in Ta'if not Mecca.

<disgusting sexual projection snipped>



Genesis 25:

12 This is the account of the family line of Abraham&#8217;s son Ishmael, whom Sarah&#8217;s slave, Hagar the Egyptian, bore to Abraham.

13 These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, 14 Mishma, Dumah, Massa, 15 Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah. 16 These were the sons of Ishmael, and these are the names of the twelve tribal rulers according to their settlements and camps. 17 Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people. 18 His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt, as you go toward Ashur. (Genesis 25)

Havila is Syria. Shur is on the Arabian Peninsula. The twelve sons of Ismael named in the Bible are, according to wiki,

Nebaioth Nabit (means First-born or First Fruit in Arabic &#1606;&#1576;&#1610;&#1578; or &#1606;&#1576;&#1610;&#1591; pronounced Nabeet)
Kedar, (in Arabic &#1602;&#1610;&#1583;&#1585; pronounced Qaidar) father of the Qedarites, a northern Arab tribe that controlled the area between the Persian Gulf and the Sinai Peninsula. According to tradition, he is the ancestor of the Quraysh tribe, and thus of the Islamic prophet, Muhammad.[10]
Adbeel, (means God's servant in Arabic &#1593;&#1576;&#1583;&#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607 established a tribe in northwest Arabia.
Mibsam (means Smiley in Arabic &#1605;&#1576;&#1587;&#1605; pronounced Mubsem)
Mishma (means Obeyed in Arabic &#1605;&#1587;&#1605;&#1608;&#1593; pronounced Masmou')
Dumah (means Sand-Hill in Arabic &#1583;&#1608;&#1605;&#1607; Doomah)
Massa (means Night Fall in Arabic &#1605;&#1587;&#1575;&#1569; pronounced Masa') father of a nomadic tribe that inhabited the Arabian desert toward Babylonia.
Hadar (means The Rolling-Stone one of the many names of Lion in Arabic &#1581;&#1610;&#1583;&#1585; pronounced Haidar)
Tema (means "The Good News" or "The Right Hand Man" in Arabic &#1578;&#1610;&#1605;&#1606; pronounced Tayman)
Jetur (means Revolt or "Rebel" in Arabic &#1610;&#1579;&#1608;&#1585; pronounced Yathur)
Naphish (means Genuine in Arabic &#1606;&#1601;&#1610;&#1587; pronounced Nafees)
Kedemah (means The Front Man or "Scout" in Arabic &#1602;&#1583;&#1575;&#1605;&#1607; pronounced Qudamah)

Now, do all Arabs descend from Ishmael? Probably not. An Arab is merely someone who speaks Arabic as their mother tongue, whatever their ancestry. The Palestinians, for instance, are more likely descendants from the 10 Northern Tribes of Israel or Samaria.



Really? And what exactly did John of Damascus have to say about Baha'u'llah and His Teachings?



LOL. My, aren't we paranoid? I was merely alluding to the fact I'm a Baha'i, not a Muslim. Methinks you are projecting your own evil motivations on others.

God said that a tree can be known by its fruits. You, Muslims, kill other people because of their religion, you molest little children because your prophet did it before you, you think you have the right to impose your barbaric views on others. That's the truth and it is there for everyone to see. Do you want me to prove that your Quran has been altered? I can do it fairly easily.

 

[seashale76]

God said that a tree can be known by its fruits. You, Muslims, kill other people because of their religion, you molest little children because your prophet did it before you, you think you have the right to impose your barbaric views on others. That's the truth and it is there for everyone to see. Do you want me to prove that your Quran has been altered? I can do it fairly easily.

I think you need to be careful about broad-brushing that many people. Most Muslims don't kill for their religion. Most are not child molesters. Most may want to impose their religion if that were to ever become possible- but that's an assumption on my part- I admit (admittedly based on what certain vocal groups within Islam say- but an assumption nonetheless).

 

[WoodrowX2]

Muslims seldom admit that they are Muslims if they are engaged in cultural jihad, as she is. Cultural jihad is the spread of Islam in the non-Islamic world. It is like preaching, but it is not exactly the same, since when you are engaged in cultural jihad it is OK for you to lie about any topic and even about you being a Muslim. They are allowed to do so because they have a concept called Taqqiya:

"Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them."

If you go to the "moderate" Islamic websites you'll find that almost all of them allow you to read commentaries to the Koran written by a scholar called Maududi. This shows how crafty they are when it comes to cultural jihad. Maududi wrote several books. These are some excerpts, from an Islamic website:


http://www.teachislam.com/dmdocument...rram_Murad.pdf

TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Taqiyya and Lying

The second link is an extreme anti-Islamic website that stoops at nothing including there own version of Taqqiyya in pretending to be an Islamic site.

At the bottom of the the page you posted the link to, You can find a link to their home page or click HERE

Yes the group "The Religion of Peace" does practice Taqqiyyah and they should be hated and despised for doing so, Click on their Home page and decide if they are Muslim.

As for the First Link, I hope you agree with what it calls Jihad as it is how most Muslims see Jihad.

From your Link

But they are highly skilled-
let us give credit where it is due! They have managed to paint such a dark and gruesome picture of us that their own true colours have been overshadowed and
obscured. Yet we should be stunned by our own simplicity and gullibility. When we saw this
picture of ourselves painted by the foreigners, we were so overwhelmed by it that we never
thought to look beyond it to see the face of the painter. Instead, we assumed the role of
apologists, pleading that we knew nothing of war, but were like the mendicants and wandering
mystics. We claimed that our only concern was religious debate and to win people over to our
faith. We admitted that in the past we may have fought in self-defence, but we had now
renounced all that.

We declared that Jihad referred only to the battle of words, waged with tongues and pens;

sabre-rattling and gun shooting were the privilege of others.

If you have not done so I suggest you read all 23 pages of the first link.