I am a Muslim(sort of)

[EnemyOfReason]

It seems many get confused on my religious stance and assume I am a Muslim. I am not, I am a Deist with Islamic flavorings.

During my departure from Islam I learned and studied more about Islam and its true origins and came to the conclusion that it was indeed pagan and made of the Wathaniyya(Arabic Paganism) which came before it. I realized that Muhammad destroyed this beautiful society and that the Qur'an compromises of many pieces of what are left although spun into a Judaic fashion.

So I guess one could call me an "Honest Muslim" as I know that Muhammad was not a prophet nor is the Qur'an divine but I still hold the Qur'an as having significant enough theological concepts that I find it spiritually useful along with learning of the pre-Islamic theology which came before it.

So one call call me an "Islamic Deist", "Deistic Muslim" or "Pagan Muslim Deist" but nonetheless I am just a Deist who finds inspiration from Arabic theology.

You can express your thoughts for further clarification.

This issue just comes up to often I thought it needed its own thread.

 

[merryheart]

عبد من رب نسر‎ = Slave from the lord eagle? * victorious = نصر which is what makes more sense...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

At least you're honest - as it's similar to others in the realm of Christians on some aspects of the Bible....

 

[emmyan]

You can express your thoughts for further clarification.

Greetings!
The question I want to ask is do you believe Jesus Christ is the Savior?

 

[EnemyOfReason]

عبد من رب نسر‎ = Slave from the lord eagle? * victorious = نصر which is what makes more sense...

Technically Nasr means vulture or bird of prey(which could be eagle) but what would victorious have to do with anything?

I hope you know I am referencing a specific idol in the Qur'an . Perhaps you did not understand the meaning of Nasr

 

[EnemyOfReason]

Greetings!
The question I want to ask is do you believe Jesus Christ is the Savior?

No I do not. If I did it would make me a Christian . That boat has drifted off years ago I may add, even due to parental upbringing I did not take after anything of my environment nor teachings from my family nor individuals I was surrounded by.

So in short, I was never much of a Christian. I have always been a Deist and I do indeed reject all superstition, revelations, miracles, prophecies and anthropomorphic entities which do include Jesus/Isa/Yeshuah

 

[EnemyOfReason]

عبد من رب نسر‎ = Slave from the lord eagle? * victorious = نصر which is what makes more sense...

FYI your translation is wrong as you added extra words and misused some.

It literally reads "Slave of Lord Nasr". The usage of from, forth, of and unto are used in a singular words but change do to context.

 

[football5680]

Well I wouldn't call Pagan Arabia a beautiful society but most of the information is correct.

The traditions and practices are very similar to Pagan Arabia. Praying to the Kaaba, circumambulating it, Ramadan, the black stone, etc... They simply changed the meaning behind the stuff. Pagans already had a holy month like Ramadan when they would stop fighting. The Kaaba was simply a Pagan temple and a story about Abraham was created with no basis in the bible or Jewish traditions. The black stone was simply a unique stone which was very common for Pagans to venerate.

Everything in the Quran already existed in the bible, Jewish traditions, Arabic Mythology or Gnostic Christianity. The proof for Muhammad prophethood since he was incapable of doing a miracle was how nice the Quran sounds but that evidence is completely subjective and cannot be tested. If I can't create something as good as the Quran I am supposed to bow down to it and admit it was from God but who is the judge in this contest? If I call on my own witnesses they will affirm that it is better but if I ask a Muslim they will reject it. I can't write like William Shakespeare but this doesn't mean I must admit his stories come from God.

 

[emmyan]

No I do not. If I did it would make me a Christian . That boat has drifted off years ago I may add, even due to parental upbringing I did not take after anything of my environment nor teachings from my family nor individuals I was surrounded by.

So in short, I was never much of a Christian. I have always been a Deist and I do indeed reject all superstition, revelations, miracles, prophecies and anthropomorphic entities which do include Jesus/Isa/Yeshuah

Why then did you join Christian forum? Just curious...

 

[xDenax]

Weren't you a "pseudo Jew" just the other day?

 

[EnemyOfReason]

Weren't you a "pseudo Jew" just the other day?

i recall using that word almost 2 weeks ago when I was studying the Tawrat. Does not mean I have any affiliation to the Judaism...except for being very pro Israeli

 

[EnemyOfReason]

Well I wouldn't call Pagan Arabia a beautiful society but most of the information is correct.

Arabian society pre-Islam was indeed a beautiful society. It had culture and was filled with great poets and wonders which were destroyed when Muhammad came about.

The traditions and practices are very similar to Pagan Arabia. Praying to the Kaaba, circumambulating it, Ramadan, the black stone, etc... They simply changed the meaning behind the stuff. Pagans already had a holy month like Ramadan when they would stop fighting. The Kaaba was simply a Pagan temple and a story about Abraham was created with no basis in the bible or Jewish traditions. The black stone was simply a unique stone which was very common for Pagans to venerate.

This is all true, it is even referenced in the Kitab al-Sittah through all six collection the various practices the pagans did including circumbulating around the Kaaba naked of all things.

Everything in the Quran already existed in the bible, Jewish traditions, Arabic Mythology or Gnostic Christianity. The proof for Muhammad prophethood since he was incapable of doing a miracle was how nice the Quran sounds but that evidence is completely subjective and cannot be tested. If I can't create something as good as the Quran I am supposed to bow down to it and admit it was from God but who is the judge in this contest? If I call on my own witnesses they will affirm that it is better but if I ask a Muslim they will reject it. I can't write like William Shakespeare but this doesn't mean I must admit his stories come from God.

There are miracles mention in Sahih Bukhari about Muhammad creating rain, but the issue is that all ahadith are just legend and heavily fabricated.

Narrated Qatada: Anas I said, "While Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) was delivering the Friday Khutba (sermon) a man came and said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Rain is scarce; please ask Allah to bless us with rain.' So he invoked Allah for it, and it rained so much that we could hardly reach our homes and it continued raining till the next Friday." Anas further said, "Then the same or some other person stood up and said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Invoke Allah to withhold the rain.' On that, Allah's Apostle I said, 'O Allah! Round about us and not on us.' " Anas added, "I saw the clouds dispersing right and left and it continued to rain but not over Medina."

 

[EnemyOfReason]

Why then did you join Christian forum? Just curious...

I was bored and decided to see how my old religion was doing in this time of year

 

[emmyan]

I was bored and decided to see how my old religion was doing in this time of year

I don't want to seem rude but please know this: Jesus Christ is only way and truth and life:
"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life ; no one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6)

Maybe you're not interested in this now or you think you have already believed in Jesus and that it was no use in it etc.
But many people tried everything but Jesus and nothing seemed real. Why is that? Because there's one and only living God who saves.

Well, probably it doesn't make any sense to you...

 

[EnemyOfReason]

I don't want to seem rude

I am usually the rude one. No need to worry about insulting my feelings since I have none

but please know this: Jesus Christ is only way and truth and life:
"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life ; no one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6)

The book of John is a portion of the Injil which contains numerous inaccuracies and was compiled many years after Jesus. It contains no signs of revelation and the text also provides no evidence to its gathering as it gives intimate events that have no relevance to revelation nor narration.

It contains no content that can be proven as divine nor can the historical existence of Jesus be given relevancy even if you take false accounts from Josephus or Tacitus into the play.

Maybe you're not interested in this now or you think you have already believed in Jesus and that it was no use in it etc.

I have believed in Jesus at one point but the issue is that my conception of a loving deity held no textual validity until it came to past that I realized the vast majority of Christians hold no opinion in accordance to textual content of the dogma they preach.

But many people tried everything but Jesus and nothing seemed real. Why is that? Because there's one and only living God who saves.

Proof of this living god who saves must be brought forth. Until then you are only using circular reasoning which is not a form of reason itself but of fallacy.

Well, probably it doesn't make any sense to you...

But it does

 

[Greg1234]

emmyan"I don't want to seem rude but please know this: Jesus Christ is only way and truth and life:"
And Jesus Christ is a spirit. Given that the spirit is the only way the truth and the life, how would a muslim, also a spirit, have problems finding Christ?

 

[Greg1234]

TheImmaculateSlaveOfGod"The book of John is a portion of the Injil which contains numerous inaccuracies and was compiled many years after Jesus"
If after Jesus, when did Jesus end?


"It contains no content that can be proven as divine"
Yet the divine isn't lacking in anything. You're one of those who believes in the existence of the natural. So where do we find it?
"nor can the historical existence of Jesus be given relevancy even if you take false accounts from Josephus or Tacitus into the play."
What is a historical existence? Is that to contrast with the divine? I.e a materialistic existence? If so, I'll agree with you that your materialistic jesus-2 is irrelevant.
"Proof of this living god who saves must be brought forth."
If he doesn't believe in the existence of your natural then his work is already done.

 

[emmyan]

The book of John is a portion of the Injil which contains numerous inaccuracies and was compiled many years after Jesus.

If you say so then please show the inaccuracies

I have believed in Jesus at one point but the issue is that my conception of a loving deity held no textual validity until it came to past that I realized the vast majority of Christians hold no opinion in accordance to textual content of the dogma they preach.

If someone is a false Christian that doesn't mean all the Christians are false nor that faith in Christ is false.

Proof of this living god who saves must be brought forth. Until then you are only using circular reasoning which is not a form of reason itself but of fallacy.

I agree.
But first of all, each of us has to be ready to receive the Truth in its' any form. I'm talking about the absence of any form of prejudice here.
The second thing is that one has to have a trustworthy and authoritative Scriptures which is of God. God's ways are not ours and He reasons not like a man so His opinion must be the very core.

 

[EnemyOfReason]

If you say so then please show the inaccuracies

Read it and compare it to the other Gospels. I can make a whole separate thread about this honestly.

If someone is a false Christian that doesn't mean all the Christians are false nor that faith in Christ is false.

By this definition everyone is a false Christian. Do you have disagreements with other Christians about the nature of Christianity? Are you not a false Christian then?

I agree.
But first of all, each of us has to be ready to receive the Truth in its' any form. I'm talking about the absence of any form of prejudice here.
The second thing is that one has to have a trustworthy and authoritative Scriptures which is of God. God's ways are not ours and He reasons not like a man so His opinion must be the very core.

No truth can be found in the Bible until you "correctly interpret it". This is a logical fallacy as it implies the truth is outside of the Bible and the Bible must comply to the truth.
Factually speaking, there is no truth in the Bible. The truth in the Bible is only found on an emotional level which is something a vengeful sky daddy will offer.


God does not need a word. If he is truly perfect and within the highest form of power then he would offer no word and have no plan for mankind except what he has done now int he present and past. This would be like Calvinism to an extent.

The Bible is a book compiled of thousands of manuscripts containing vast errors and flaws, it holds no relevancy if one wishes to seek only objective truth.

 

[EnemyOfReason]

And Jesus Christ is a spirit. Given that the spirit is the only way the truth and the life, how would a muslim, also a spirit, have problems finding Christ?

Well for starters what makes you think I am a Muslim?