What exactly is the law?

[bricklayer]

The law is that which reveals what God is and is not. It reveals the limits of God. It is a "silhouette" of God. Jesus put a face on the law. My God looks like Jesus Christ.

 

[Shimshon]

If understanding the concept of how the Law functions like a Constitution and goes through changes--with certain parts applying for a time and then becoming void when a new part of the Law becomes accessed, it helps greatly in understanding how it flows. When God said "Thou Shall Not Murder", that is something that never changed. However, the legal system for dealing with that law did transform in the NT...as well as the means by which one could fulfill that command since the LAW in the OT could never give any kind of hope to others in actually being able to keep it fully without the power of the Holy Spirit.

Some branches of Christianity teach that the ethical Law remains, while the civil/ceremonial statutes have been done away with. For Gentiles, this may seem a satisfactory solution to the problem of Torah...but for Jewish believers it isn't so simple as that....all supposed abrogations can be otherwise explained within the Jewish framework for understanding Torah. Some rules were transformed by their fulfillment...a process already found in the Tanak, for example, when the Tabernacle was superceded by the Temple. In the New Testament, Yeshua's own sacrifical death fulfilled the function of temple sacrifice foe sin and either superceded it or changed it into a memorial...as explained in Hebrews 7:11-13 .

Nice job

 

[fhansen]

Imputed righteousness is not a statement that God likes sin or even OKs it.

Why did God bless Abraham for what we know to be a violation of the law that followed him?

Neither justification or sanctification are works of progress. One is either or in both cases. Manifestation is another issue. It seems we require proof by physical conduct of what is not subject to the law according to the Scripture.

bugkiller

Abraham was blest for faith; he violated no law. He trusted God that, no matter what, God would bring good out of something that he recognized as so wrong. That's what God was after, and God demanded no wrong to be done after all. Otherwise we may assume that murder is not sinful-that sin doesn't even exist?

 

[bugkiller]

Abraham was blest for faith; he violated no law. He trusted God that, no matter what, God would bring good out of something that he recognized as so wrong. That's what God was after, and God demanded no wrong to be done after all. Otherwise we may assume that murder is not sinful-that sin doesn't even exist?

Maybe you should read very slowly and consider what I said against the whole of Scripture.

bigkiller

 

[fhansen]

Maybe you should read very slowly and consider what I said against the whole of Scripture.

bigkiller

Maybe you could expound a bit-I'm probably misunderstanding your point about Abraham.

Imputed righteousness is not a statement that God likes sin or even OKs it

But if one can become just merely by having a foreign righteousness imputed to him, then would you say God is unconcerned with sin in the sense that sin no longer affects ones just standing?

 

[bugkiller]

Maybe you could expound a bit-I'm probably misunderstanding your point about Abraham.

Expound what?

But if one can become just merely by having a foreign righteousness imputed to him, then would you say God is unconcerned with sin in the sense that sin no longer affects ones just standing?

No I would not say God is no longer concerned about sin. Yes the deeds of the flesh alone do not affect one's standing with God. David was called a man after God's own heart and look at his life of sin. David was also called righteous by imputation just like Abraham. Now you have to reconcile this with yourself. I obvously can not do it for you.

bugkiller

 

[fhansen]

Expound what?

I'm not sure how you think Abraham violated the law.

No I would not say God is no longer concerned about sin. Yes the deeds of the flesh alone do not affect one's standing with God. David was called a man after God's own heart and look at his life of sin. David was also called righteous by imputation just like Abraham. Now you have to reconcile this with yourself. I obvously can not do it for you.

bugkiller

According to James Abraham was also justified by his actions. David repented, presumably because he was a man after Gods own heart, which certainly pleases God in and of itself. But he still suffered consequences in this life for his sins, and, while I have no certain knowledge of his eternal fate, I'd assume that he continued to seek closeness to God, sinlessness being the eventual outcome one way or the other prior to entrance into heaven.

 

[bugkiller]

I'm not sure how you think Abraham violated the law.

Right I do not think he did because the law was not given to their fathers and Abraham is considered one of those fathers. Besides the law came after Abraham by more than 400 years.

According to James Abraham was also justified by his actions. David repented, presumably because he was a man after Gods own heart, which certainly pleases God in and of itself. But he still suffered consequences in this life for his sins, and, while I have no certain knowledge of his eternal fate, I'd assume that he continued to seek closeness to God, sinlessness being the eventual outcome one way or the other prior to entrance into heaven.

OK by me if you do not accept Romans 4. Once one has sinned they can never be sinless.

My lawyer says you can not unring a rung bell.

bugkiller

 

[fhansen]

Right I do not think he did because the law was not given to their fathers and Abraham is considered one of those fathers. Besides the law came after Abraham by more than 400 years.OK by me if you do not accept Romans 4. Once one has sinned they can never be sinless.

My lawyer says you can not unring a rung bell.

bugkiller

I beg to differ, where God's involved at least. Christians become new creations in Christ. To the extent that they continue to live in the Spirit, they will become sinless. That's the purpose and power of the New Covenant.

 

[fhansen]

Right I do not think he did because the law was not given to their fathers and Abraham is considered one of those fathers. Besides the law came after Abraham by more than 400 years.

So when you ask:

"Why did God bless Abraham for what we know to be a violation of the law that followed him?" ,

are you asserting that the law against killing that was given later is arbitrary, and not truly a "natural law" for man, as theologians sometimes put it?

 

[hisgrace26]

The Law is not limited to only the 10 commandments. It's also the Torah and everything taught in it.

 

[bugkiller]

I beg to differ, where God's involved at least. Christians become new creations in Christ. To the extent that they continue to live in the Spirit, they will become sinless. That's the purpose and power of the New Covenant.

With what are you differing? I can not relate your statements together. Absolutely Christians are a new creation in Christ. I disagree that they will become anything. I read the Scripture to say they are not will be.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

So when you ask:

"Why did God bless Abraham for what we know to be a violation of the law that followed him?" ,

are you asserting that the law against killing that was given later is arbitrary, and not truly a "natural law" for man, as theologians sometimes put it?

huh?? Surely you have read and know what I am talking about. Abraham lied - violation of the 10 Cs that came 430 years after him.

bugkiller

 

[AnonUser2013]

I have probably missed a lot, but what is the "law of Christ" as mentioned in the NT? Is the Law of Christ = Torah (Mosaic law) OR is the Law of Christ basically the law of love (Love the Lord your God + Love neighbor)

 

[bugkiller]

I have probably missed a lot, but what is the "law of Christ" as mentioned in the NT? Is the Law of Christ = Torah (Mosaic law) OR is the Law of Christ basically the law of love (Love the Lord your God + Love neighbor)

Grace

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I beg to differ, where God's involved at least. Christians become new creations in Christ. To the extent that they continue to live in the Spirit, they will become sinless. That's the purpose and power of the New Covenant.

Would that mean one is not a full Christian until some time in the future? If so what would that make most of what we call Christians these days? Do we call them process Christians or something to indcated they are not a full or complete Christian. Is a baby a human or just in the process of becoming a human?

bugkiller

 

[fhansen]

Would that mean one is not a full Christian until some time in the future? If so what would that make most of what we call Christians these days? Do we call them process Christians or something to indcated they are not a full or complete Christian. Is a baby a human or just in the process of becoming a human?

bugkiller

People use the term "Christian" to mean a variety of things. And we can call ourselves whatever we want but in the end its a matter of how we walk the walk-all the way to our final destiny. And then God will tell us how well we lived up to the name; He, alone, knows w/100% certainty.

 

[AnonUser2013]

I think fhansen is basically saying "he who endures to the end will be saved".

 

[bugkiller]

People use the term "Christian" to mean a variety of things. And we can call ourselves whatever we want but in the end its a matter of how we walk the walk-all the way to our final destiny. And then God will tell us how well we lived up to the name; He, alone, knows w/100% certainty.

Yes and that is a severe problem.

But your post does not answer my question either.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I think fhansen is basically saying "he who endures to the end will be saved".

But that does not take away our current status as saved. JN 5:24

bugkiller