Pursuing a Man vs. Waiting to be Pursued

[MacFall]

Mac - I think the dynamics of starting a relationship are very different from those used to maintain one. The way we act and respond when we first meet someone and we're still in that butterflies-breathless-excited stage is different than what you're doing after being married for 10 years. I agree with reciprocity in an established relationship.

The way we act during the butterflies stage is emotional. Emotion is a physical (chemical) phenomenon. Moral conduct (that is, how we ought to act towards one another) is a spiritual concept, not a physical one. Morality is a constant: it does not apply sometimes and not at other times, and the Golden Rule establishes reciprocity as a moral goal. If you're not starting your relationship in a spirit of reciprocity, you're not starting it on as solid a foundation as you should be.

 

[itdepends]

Throwing the rules out the window is doing the other extreme and I don't think that's wise either. One of the first things we learn when we're kids is that rules are there for a reason and usually, that reason is our own safety.

But maybe it's all about perspective. I've never seen the "dating rules" to be burdensome or anything because I don't actually consider them to be "rules" that I must follow. I've always understood them to be guidelines and advice to seriously consider. I don't always follow them, but I do always seriously consider them because there is always a purpose behind every rule.

I can ... understand why a lot of the rules are there I think, but perhaps a person's personal history helps to shape that as well. I mean, obviously.

You did just help me to realize something rather obvious though, about myself that is lol. I tend to ignore a lot of rules. Not always on purpose, almost by my nature. I've typically found so much reward on the other side of risk. And I've always tended to love the type of people you had to break the rules to be close to. I think that may be one reason my own personal relationships are so intense, fiery, complex ... but also why they don't last. Once we get to a place of "safety" so to speak, I tend to go looking for more people to care about that need the rules broken for.

I think it's a risk, no matter which way you slice it .... love that is. I mean, you have certain rules and boundaries to help weed out certain types of people, or test the waters a certain way, etc. But if you show what's on the other side of those rules/boundaries later and it starts to fall apart, then you've risked being hurt, etc. So idk lol. Rules can be good, but they can help you miss so much at the same time.

Idk

Rose- you can walk up to any single guy on this planet, look them in the eye and say "I like you, do you want to go out with me?" and they will say "yes" because you are fun, beautiful and you just stroked their ego. But do you want every single guy in your sphere? Or do you want the right guy?

This is the sad thing about a lot of guys ... they will simply say yes to anyone whose cute with a smile because they are basically objectifying girls and don't even realize it.

It's also why the flipside of this reveals a lot about the girl ... if the girl is always interested in the guy who says no in this kind of situation, she may start to chase him only to validate her own ego instead. "Why did he say no ? Am I not good enough ?" So it's the reverse of the scenario ... if you find the guy who actually doesn't just drop his jaw and go after every pretty girl who flirts with him, and he is actually the type to say "No" to advances, and you start to take an interest in him ... is it because you actually have an interest in who he is, or is it because of an actual low self esteem ?

The dating world can get so redundant, and the single life can get so comfy, that you start to not even realize certain things about your ownself that are hindering you from finding the actual thing you really want ...

 

[Isambard]

Submissive people are boring. If a girl can't be bothered to show interest, then neither can I.

 

[Strider1002]

Submissive people are boring. If a girl can't be bothered to show interest, then neither can I.

Yeah. I'd prefer to be with a woman who is just as proactive as I am. But a man should be the head of the household, so it follows that he should provide the initial momentum to start the relationship.

 

[jess9450]

The dating world can get so redundant, and the single life can get so comfy, that you start to not even realize certain things about your ownself that are hindering you from finding the actual thing you really want ...

Personal Sidenote:
This is something that I've been thinking about, how in some ways I've grown a little...reclusive from the dating world because being single is kinda comfy and familiar. It's risky putting yourself out there, but at the same time you miss a lot of awesome opportunities in life if you hide yourself away.

 

[StarBright]

The way we act during the butterflies stage is emotional. Emotion is a physical (chemical) phenomenon. Moral conduct (that is, how we ought to act towards one another) is a spiritual concept, not a physical one. Morality is a constant: it does not apply sometimes and not at other times, and the Golden Rule establishes reciprocity as a moral goal. If you're not starting your relationship in a spirit of reciprocity, you're not starting it on as solid a foundation as you should be.

Maybe you need to give an example of two people meeting and becoming acquainted in a perfect state of "reciprocity"?

I think you're placing too much "moral weightiness" on this, frankly. I don't think we need to be writing a 100-page thesis on "how to ask someone out". Men and women function differently, whether modern society likes to recognize that or not. You can expect both parties to give the same amount of themselves to a new relationship, but that doesn't mean they're going to DO the exact same things. Just because a guy asks and a girl accepts, doesn't mean the guy is MORE invested than the girl. It could be the opposite. It could be equal. The actions don't necessarily reflect the intensity of the intentions.

 

[StarBright]

Submissive people are boring. If a girl can't be bothered to show interest, then neither can I.

But there are a million ways to show interest without chasing after someone like a rabid animal.

 

[Maryland Girl]

My personal opinion is that God designed the guys to pursue the girls. That's just what I believe, and I believe that's what works best. I believe pursuit is part of basic masculinity. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying hello or introducing yourself to a guy, but then I think it's up to him to decide if he likes what he sees and wants more of it, or not. I'm not saying this is a black-and-white, across-the-board rule with no exceptions, either. Just that I believe it's the way God designed couples to work in the general sense, and it's usually best to follow that example.

I agree. I think guys are the ones who should take the risk on this one. But, I don't see it as a bad idea for a girl to be friendly/slightly flirty with someone if she likes them, since they could be waiting for some kind of signal you won't shoot them down if they ask you out. But the woman who does too much flirting and really pursues a guy, if it works out, good for her. But that kind of behavior will usually blow up in your face. I guess for me, it always goes back to the example of marriage. Guys are the ones who propose, and women say yes or no. So it seems like guys should be the ones initiating relationships as well.

 

[itdepends]

Personal Sidenote:
This is something that I've been thinking about, how in some ways I've grown a little...reclusive from the dating world because being single is kinda comfy and familiar. It's risky putting yourself out there, but at the same time you miss a lot of awesome opportunities in life if you hide yourself away.

Yeah, and that's why I think "dating" is actually pretty easy and just, fun lol. If you don't want to actually "risk", but you still want to be around the opposite sex ... just, date lol. Don't go looking for a serious relationship, or someone to fill your checklist. Just go out and experience new people you might not normally get to know, without expectations After awhile that may get old if you're desiring something more serious and committed of course ... which goes back to the redundancy thing lol ...

Maybe you need to give an example of two people meeting and becoming acquainted in a perfect state of "reciprocity"?

I think you're placing too much "moral weightiness" on this, frankly. I don't think we need to be writing a 100-page thesis on "how to ask someone out". Men and women function differently, whether modern society likes to recognize that or not. You can expect both parties to give the same amount of themselves to a new relationship, but that doesn't mean they're going to DO the exact same things. Just because a guy asks and a girl accepts, doesn't mean the guy is MORE invested than the girl. It could be the opposite. It could be equal. The actions don't necessarily reflect the intensity of the intentions.

I do think that most guys honestly take for granted that women are much more easily objectified than they are. The guy who tells the girl, "Wow, you're so beautiful," or whatever ... in their eyes, they may actually be taking a risk in even saying that. But they take for granted that most every guy on the block would say the same thing, whether it's true or not, and even though it may be flattering, it also doesn't say anything at all about the guy on a personal level lol. So I agree there is no 100 page moral thesis on asking out another human being or the "who chases who" stuff lol ... but I think a woman can easily weed out the guys who are simply interested in her because of her "look" and nothing more rather easily by maybe waiting for him to make a certain *kind* of move, depending on the situation I guess.

 

[trentlogain2]

Mila Kunis talks to Chris Stark off the Scott Mills show on Radio 1 - YouTube

this has got to be one of the weirdest interviews i've ever seen.


the way it's shot makes me wonder if it's one of those spoof interviews.

 

[Niels]

Yeah. I'd prefer to be with a woman who is just as proactive as I am. But a man should be the head of the household, so it follows that he should provide the initial momentum to start the relationship.

I don't know about that. What if she pursues him by trying to follow his lead, or saddles up beside him as a helper? I don't see why who the initial momentum comes from should matter.

On a related note, using a word like "pursue" in this context seems to give the older generation the wrong idea, as it apparently has creeper connotations for them. Those my age and younger get it, but not folks my parents' age, or even my older siblings.

 

[Isambard]

But there are a million ways to show interest without chasing after someone like a rabid animal.

What's so rabid animal about a girl coming up to a guy and saying, "Hi, I'm X. I just wanted to say, I find you interesting. Would you be interested in grabbing a coffee with me sometime?".

 

[MacFall]

Maybe you need to give an example of two people meeting and becoming acquainted in a perfect state of "reciprocity"?

Shouldn't be too hard to imagine. Don't expect from others what you would not be willing to do yourself, that's all.

I think you're placing too much "moral weightiness" on this, frankly.

I think it is impossible to overstate the "moral weightiness" of a restating of Jesus' Great Commandment, which is exactly what the Golden Rule is.

I don't think we need to be writing a 100-page thesis on "how to ask someone out".

I agree. In fact I would go so far as to say that even brief statements attempting to establish propriety for dating, a purely culteral phenomenon, along gender lines are inappropriate.

Men and women function differently, whether modern society likes to recognize that or not.

Some of those differences are biological. Most are traditional, and I think a lot of people would be surprised to learn just how modern many of those traditions really are.

You can expect both parties to give the same amount of themselves to a new relationship, but that doesn't mean they're going to DO the exact same things.

True, but I've seen plenty of healthy relationships in which generally they do.

Just because a guy asks and a girl accepts, doesn't mean the guy is MORE invested than the girl. It could be the opposite. It could be equal. The actions don't necessarily reflect the intensity of the intentions.

Also true, but investment or intensity may have nothing to do with it. A girl who is highly invested could easily sabotage her own chances at being in a relationship because she refuses to share the responsibility of initiative, which neither scripture nor reason provide us with any evidence that it is or ought to be the man's sole domain.

 

[wannaberocker]

I fail at these kind of exercises.

Do you really? very well.

 

[Hadassah_]

Rose, I completely understand where you are coming from on many different levels. I don't get pursued by men at all and those who do usually have less than stellar intentions in mind.

I have always felt and always been taught that if a man isn't pursuing you in some way, shape or form, he isn't interested and to move on.

I will say one thing urks me; when a man says 'sure I'll ask someone out if I see there is already interest' I wonder why a woman has to already show interest for a man to be interested? I will say, in the past, a man has pursued me without me being interested and because of this I ended up interested. Does this make sense?

Maybe it's a double standard to my previous comment, so I don't know. I do know each person is different and that makes it all the more complicated. Makes me wonder if we should go back to the caveman days where he grabs you by the hair and drags you back to the cave. *sigh*

I think I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I am unpursuable and will be single forever. It's a hard realisation especially when I think my boys will be married before me but, that's just how it works sometimes.

 

[MacFall]

Showing interest is not the same thing as making an approach.

 

[MacFall]

What's so rabid animal about a girl coming up to a guy and saying, "Hi, I'm X. I just wanted to say, I find you interesting. Would you be interested in grabbing a coffee with me sometime?".

Nah, rabid animal would be more like

Hey, I just met you
And this is crazy
But I'm on bath salts
And your face looks tasty.

 

[itdepends]

I will say one thing urks me; when a man says 'sure I'll ask someone out if I see there is already interest' I wonder why a woman has to already show interest for a man to be interested?

Sometimes the guy is treating his own feelings as though they matter also, and not wanting to put them in front of someone who may not want them there. That's out of respect for both people. It's like trying to go to a party you weren't invited too ... you don't go out of respect for yourself, and the people who just wanted to party by themselves. This is also why lots of people like the "natural" thing ... "Our relationship just came naturally". The ones where you just "know" it's okay to go to the party and all. That way, no one gets rejected ... not the guy, not the girl. But if a girl ONLY waits for the guy to be vulnerable first, then it's putting the guy in a position of getting up on that stage all by himself, and possibly getting boo-ed off and such. There is something to be said for that, but at the same time, there is something to be said for the reciprocity thing also

I think I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I am unpursuable and will be single forever. It's a hard realisation especially when I think my boys will be married before me but, that's just how it works sometimes.

I also think that guys pick up on the "forever" type of stuff. "I'll be single forever. I always fail at that. All guys are like this. My life will always be like that." It sets up a barrier right from the start of "Prove me wrong,". So a complete stranger already has to prove something, before ever having been met in the first place. That sends off the signal of a closed off person ... pursuing them you have to prove to them why they should come out. Not all guys view girls like that. A lot of guys view women with equality in mind, not the "I need to rescue her from herself, and prove to her why I'm worth it" things. I mean, I get it ... I understand why some of it's done. But some people move passed that and realize the world is much bigger without some of those barriers. Just 2 cents ...

 

[jess9450]

I also think that guys pick up on the "forever" type of stuff. "I'll be single forever. I always fail at that. All guys are like this. My life will always be like that." It sets up a barrier right from the start of "Prove me wrong,". So a complete stranger already has to prove something, before ever having been met in the first place. That sends off the signal of a closed off person ... pursuing them you have to prove to them why they should come out. Not all guys view girls like that. A lot of guys view women with equality in mind, not the "I need to rescue her from herself, and prove to her why I'm worth it" things. I mean, I get it ... I understand why some of it's done. But some people move passed that and realize the world is much bigger without some of those barriers. Just 2 cents ...

I agree; men must have some sort of sixth sense when it comes to that! I know that I've been guilty of putting forward that "forever alone" kind of feeling, but I'm trying to be more conscientious of it these days!

 

[MacFall]

Sometimes the guy is treating his own feelings as though they matter also, and not wanting to put them in front of someone who may not want them there. That's out of respect for both people. It's like trying to go to a party you weren't invited too ... you don't go out of respect for yourself, and the people who just wanted to party by themselves.

VERY good point.

If I want people to show up at my party I give them an invitation. The fact that nobody has yet isn't my fault and it doesn't make me inclined to go to their parties uninvited, either.