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No such thing as free will.
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FredVB
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There is perfect unity of Jesus Christ, the incarnation of Logos, the Word who is with God and is God, with the Father, and with the Spirit of God, as one being, the supreme one, that is to be seen. Yahweh God is perfect and good, and he is infinite in his being. All his characteristics are absolute and without limit. And so with that perfect goodness there is absolute justice and there is absolute and unlimited love as well. With knowing all things, he made all creation with knowing of the rebellion to him with the fall to sin that would come with that. With justice all sin would be dealt with, with such great love he would provide for atonement and bear penalty for sin himself, through the incarnation with coming among us living perfectly to die on the cross, for salvation to any and all that would truly believe in him for salvation as Lord and savior.
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It seems that you are saying that the Cross was a reactionary decision of God (because He knew we would sin), and not the intention from the get go (to bring Him the most glory). Is that about right?
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ginally Posted by cygnusx1
If God was all for free will he wouldn't bind Satan .... Ever !
The conclusion is not logical. God allowing Satan his freedom of will is the basis for God judging Him. Allowing certain creatures to have free will does not mean He has to approve of their choices or actions where they violate His expressed will. For example, God knew when He offered Cain through grace the chance to "go and do it right" so that all would be well with him, that he would reject this gracious effort to do it God's way but He still allowed Cain to make the choice (even after warning Cain of the consequence Cain insisted upon doing what was right in his own eyes and thus suffered the consequence)...
Paul
If God was all for free will he wouldn't bind Satan .... Ever !
The conclusion is not logical. God allowing Satan his freedom of will is the basis for God judging Him. Allowing certain creatures to have free will does not mean He has to approve of their choices or actions where they violate His expressed will. For example, God knew when He offered Cain through grace the chance to "go and do it right" so that all would be well with him, that he would reject this gracious effort to do it God's way but He still allowed Cain to make the choice (even after warning Cain of the consequence Cain insisted upon doing what was right in his own eyes and thus suffered the consequence)...
Paul
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Amen.
it's amazing that synergists think of "freedom" as sinning.
I guess in heaven, we won't be free.
We don't think of 'freedom' as sinning, but rather, 'freedom' as the choice to sin or refrain from sinning. And every man has this 'freedom'.
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Originally Posted by cygnusx1
That is because you call sinning freedom , we call it slavery. Satan is a slave of sin and he has been under Gods authority since day one .
Satan even had to ask to sift Peter .........
Excellent point Arcoe.
Most Non Calvinists know a far lot more about Calvinism than Calvinist know about Arminianism. So many statements by calvinists on these threads start with false assertions such as "You assume..." or "You think...", "you call .." etc.
That is because you call sinning freedom , we call it slavery. Satan is a slave of sin and he has been under Gods authority since day one .
Satan even had to ask to sift Peter .........
Excellent point Arcoe.
Most Non Calvinists know a far lot more about Calvinism than Calvinist know about Arminianism. So many statements by calvinists on these threads start with false assertions such as "You assume..." or "You think...", "you call .." etc.
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Not true. Almost every Calvinist was a synergist. Not true the other way around.
Basic premise of synergism: man is pretty bad off. God does something to make them aware/awake/alert. Then man can decide whether or not to repent and believe.
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So will we have a choice to sin, or refrain from sinning, in heaven?
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You're choice is made now, while in the flesh. Choose to sin, and you won't have to worry about what goes on in heaven; choose to refrain from sinning and you will carry this with you to heaven.
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Shulamite
My Bridegroom suffered this for ME
May I add... we are conceived in sin. Before we are born to make a choice for good or bad. If conceived in sin and by nature, children of wrath, then how is it we are capable of making a righteous choice for Christ on earth apart from Christ? That which is conceived in evil cannot choose good. Evil produces evil and good produces good.
Jesus is the only One who was not conceived in sin (no having a human father) as we all know. Since no sin nature was imparted to Him, then He alone is sinless at conception. He alone makes the Righteous CHOICE for those whom He foreknew and ordained.
Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me"
　
Job 14:4 Who can bring what is pure from the impure? No one! (This is why we must be born from above and until this happens, no choice for Christ can be made of the person)
　
Psalm 58:3 Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.
Genesis 8:21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.
No, we do not make a choice here on earth as to where we will spend eternity. The wages of sin (recompense of sin) produces death. That which is born already dead cannot choose to "will" itself to life. Only Life Himself can have mercy and do this.
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You prove my/Arcoe's point. To find the real basic premise(s) I suggest you spend some time at sites such as:
Society of Evangelical Arminians
Welcome! | thebereancall.org
Do all synergists agree with every thing indicated by these sites ? No. But Calvinists have different premises as well . E.G Strict 5 point, Christmas Calvinist. Moderate, High, Supra/infra, Pre/Post/Sub lapsarianism. Decree is/is_not permission....
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Before becoming a Calvinist, the Berean Call/Dave Hunt was one of my go to sources. I used to listen to the show every Saturday on XM. Your argument is invalid. And my point stands
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