hiscosmicgoldfish said:
present the case that you have.. but i have studied eschatology for over 5 years, and that is the conclusion that i have reached on these two books, after starting out as thinking that the whole bible was the inerrant word of God, as do so many evangelicals.
I appreciate the opportunity and will do my best to properly convey what I learned.
First, a question: What happened to the Jewish background in Christian theology that was so prevalent in the New Testament?
That question, I believe, holds the key to proper interpretation.
Shortly before Rome declares war on Judea, a great persecution broke out against Jewish Christians by their Jewish counterparts. This drove them out of Judea. When Rome declared war on Judea, the Jewish Christians were not persecuted throughout the empire like their counterparts were because they weren't considered Jewish even by the main Jewish population.
With Jerusalem's destruction, it became beneficial to not show off circumcision or observe the Sabbath, because it would draw persecution. Interestingly, Paul asked what benefit was their in circumcision? Jesus said to good for others on the Sabbath.
Then, as years passed, Christianity became primarily Greek and Latin based. Concepts like the kingdom of God got filtered through Greek philosophy or Latin Stoicism. Being saved changed from being accepted into the Abrahamic Covenant to being able to go to heaven when we die.
We need a better exegesis that actually gets beck to the contexts in which the New Testament was written rather than inserting our own cultural perspective into those writings.
I'm not a preterist or a futurist, i might be classified as a 'Jesus words only'ist'.. i accept that the gospels record Jesus' teachings on the matter of eschatology.
Awesome! Revelation thinks so as well:
Consider the strong correlation between Jesus' Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21; and the seven seals of Rev. 6-9.
When asked what the signs of His He return would be and when the temple would be destroyed, He said that:
- they would hear of wars and rumors of wars (first seal)
- nation would rise against nation (second seal)
- there would be famine (third seal)
- and pestilences in various places (fourth seal)
- then they would hand over His disciples to tribulation (fifth seal)
- when they saw the abomination of desolation that they should flee Judea (sixth seal and 144,000 sealed; read Luke 23:27-30.)
- and this Gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations (the great Gentile multitude clothes in white of Rev. 7)
- and then the end will come (seventh seal, end of the Times of the Jews after sixth trump.)
Now, before you ask when a third of mankind was slain, I'd like to address that. Notice that six of seven trumpets occur against thirds. A third of mankind was not a quantity. It was a quality of mankind. In this case, the Hebrews, descendants of Eber, son of Shem..
When Noah and his family were saved from destruction like the 144,000 were destined to never revert to Judaism and participate in Jerusalem's destruction, his three children repopulated the earth.
One third of mankind came from Japheth. Another came from Ham. And the last third came from Shem. Flavius Josephus, in discussing how the Jewish rebels pursued Cestius, called them by the name Shem. Only time he did that in the book. Evidently, Shem was interchangeable with the Hebrews.
So the fifth trumpet was about the five month long siege that Titus put Jerusalem through and the sixth trumpet details in hyperbole the destruction of the Jewish Nation at Jerusalem. Approximately 600,000 to 1.1 million Jews died in Jerusalem in 70 CE. In Matthew 24:21, Jesus called it the worst tribulation the Jews would ever undergo. Nobody would have thought that the Jews would face scorn and ridicule for the next 1900 years.
But Revelation's sequence stops after the sixth seal and introduces a new prophecy about many peoples, nations, languages, and kings; the Gentiles. In accordance with Matthew 21:42 and 22:14, the Gentiles received the kingdom of God and produced fruits of righteousness by them. The saints are the two witnesses of Revelation, whom build God's temple throughout the nations (the Church.) That's where we are right now.
When the fullness of the Gentiles (Romans 11:25-26, Luke 21:24) has come in and those that worship in God's temple have fulfilled their number, the nations will grow sick of the Church, as they are already doing) and will seek to destroy her. That's when Jerusalem receives her King and the dead are resurrected.
Revelation 12:1-16 accounts for the history of the persecution during the Times of the Jews, which lasted from the Exile in Babylon to the Exile in Rome. Rev. 12:17; 13-14:1 describe the history and future of persecution during the Times of the Gentiles, lasting from Domitian's reign to when Jerusalem receives her King.
Rev. 15-18 details the gradual destruction of the beast's dominion, culminating in Babylon's (Rome's) destruction. Rev. 19-22 the details the fulfillment of all prophecy.
The kingdom of God is the headline that has been reduced to fine print. It is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic promises. And because Jewish background has been purged from Christian theology, we have reduced the anticipation of living out God's promises in this life to abandoning His blessings for those beyond death, dismissing out work here for the motions that life easily provides.
I'm not a preterist, futurist, or historicist (though closer than the first two.) I follow Jesus' teachings of the kingdom of God, mainly in His parables, which Revelation supports. I believe with good reason that John wrote down the Revelation before Jerusalem was destroyed and died shortly after writing it of a martyr's death (Matthew 20:20-23) like his brother James did.
The Jews heavily persecuted Jesus' first disciples (the elect, John 17:6) and they fled Judea. After that, the earth lost its saltiness (Matthew 5:13), and it was trampled underfoot by the Gentiles (Luke 21:24, Matthew 22:7), much like how God waited until Lot fled Sodom to destroy the city (Luke 17:28-30.) Jesus was revealed (Revelation) during Jerusalem's destruction.
This fits better than most eschatology, and it isn't about widespread destruction.
I'll get to Daniel later. Thanks for the opportunity to discuss my views.
