I really hate the book of Revelation

[janeyann]

The chip in the hand fits with revelation, a cashless society where you will only be able to buy or sell with the chip. This will be welcomed when the major currencies collapse and war breaks out.

 

[Soulgazer]

The chip in the hand fits with revelation, a cashless society where you will only be able to buy or sell with the chip. This will be welcomed when the major currencies collapse and war breaks out.

The U.S. has been continuously at war since the late 1930's. The only thing that may break out is "peace", but in any case, our currency has totally collapsed a couple of times---- Which has very little to fo with the "Book of Revelation" as the U.S. is mentioned nowhere in the book, nor was it even suspected by the author that this continent exists. Other things in modern society are also conspicuous by their absence. Nuclear aircraft carriers, Submarines, aircraft, automobiles and Man's first walk on the moon are all notable enough that had the "Seer's" vision been genuinly about this century, that in my opinion, they could in no wise have been ommitted.

 

[janeyann]

I have not said that the collapse of currencies is in revelation though have I? If you do research into current events today, the end times, the bible, and speak to God you will see how everything cannot be a coincidence. I sincerely hope you see the signs before it is too late.

 

[Soulgazer]

I have not said that the collapse of currencies is in revelation though have I? If you do research into current events today, the end times, the bible, and speak to God you will see how everything cannot be a coincidence. I sincerely hope you see the signs before it is too late.

Too late for what?

 

[janeyann]

When the lord takes his people up. I, nor should anyone else wish to be left behind.

 

[Soulgazer]

When the lord takes his people up. I, nor should anyone else wish to be left behind.

The Lord has already taken me up.

 

[janeyann]

I mean up to heaven, there will be vanishings all over the world. You will be on earth now to reply to my post....?

 

[Soulgazer]

I mean up to heaven, there will be vanishings all over the world. You will be on earth now to reply to my post....?

I have been to heaven in the same way Paul was. Now, If God wants to rip my ashes out of the worm eaten ground to reconstruct my body, I really wish He wouldn't. I think I would do just fine in heaven without it. My soul is already there. I am not into the "rapture" theology.

 

[janeyann]

If those are your beliefs I respect that. However, if this was to happen I hope you'd message me on the chance we were both left behind.

 

[Soulgazer]

If those are your beliefs I respect that. However, if this was to happen I hope you'd message me on the chance we were both left behind.

I don't think you are going to be left behind. You can't, if you are already there.
I feel the same way Philip felt when he wrote "Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error. If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing."

This is entirely consistent with the author of "The Treatise on the Ressurection"'s veiws also:

"The Savior swallowed up death - (of this) you are not reckoned as being ignorant - for he put aside the world which is perishing. He transformed himself into an imperishable Aeon and raised himself up, having swallowed the visible by the invisible, and he gave us the way of our immortality. Then, indeed, as the Apostle said, "We suffered with him, and we arose with him, and we went to heaven with him". Now if we are manifest in this world wearing him, we are that one`s beams, and we are embraced by him until our setting, that is to say, our death in this life. We are drawn to heaven by him, like beams by the sun, not being restrained by anything. This is the spiritual resurrection which swallows up the psychic in the same way as the fleshly.

But if there is one who does not believe, he does not have the (capacity to be) persuaded. For it is the domain of faith, my son, and not that which belongs to persuasion: the dead shall arise! There is one who believes among the philsophers who are in this world. At least he will arise. And let not the philosopher who is in this world have cause to believe that he is one who returns himself by himself - and (that) because of our faith! For we have known the Son of Man, and we have believed that he rose from among the dead. This is he of whom we say, "He became the destruction of death, as he is a great one in whom they believe." Great are those who believe.

The thought of those who are saved shall not perish. The mind of those who have known him shall not perish. Therefore, we are elected to salvation and redemption since we are predestined from the beginning not to fall into the foolishness of those who are without knowledge, but we shall enter into the wisdom of those who have known the Truth. Indeed, the Truth which is kept cannot be abandoned, nor has it been. "Strong is the system of the Pleroma; small is that which broke loose (and) became (the) world. But the All is what is encompassed. It has not come into being; it was existing." So, never doubt concerning the resurrection, my son Rheginos! For if you were not existing in flesh, you received flesh when you entered this world. Why will you not receive flesh when you ascend into the Aeon? That which is better than the flesh is that which is for (the) cause of life. That which came into being on your account, is it not yours? Does not that which is yours exist with you? Yet, while you are in this world, what is it that you lack? This is what you have been making every effort to learn.

The afterbirth of the body is old age, and you exist in corruption. You have absence as a gain. For you will not give up what is better if you depart. That which is worse has diminution, but there is grace for it.
Nothing, then, redeems us from this world. But the All which we are, we are saved. We have received salvation from end to end. Let us think in this way! Let us comprehend in this way!

 

[Noxot]

Do you not see these chips in the hand as a sign?

the book of revelation also speaks about the mark of God, am I to suppose that God also will have some kind of chip to implant in my mind and hands or does it make more sense that it is my works and my mind that have the mark of either the world or of God?

 

[janeyann]

the book of revelation also speaks about the mark of God, am I to suppose that God also will have some kind of chip to implant in my mind and hands or does it make more sense that it is my works and my mind that have the mark of either the world or of God?

Yes God does mark us but it is invisible. The fact that in the future we will be in a cashless society where we will only be able to buy and sell with the chip is a big clue wouldn't you say?

 

[Noxot]

Yes God does mark us but it is invisible. The fact that in the future we will be in a cashless society where we will only be able to buy and sell with the chip is a big clue wouldn't you say?

i desire the reality you speak of way more than most people. if ONLY i could get my head cut off for Christ. getting my head cut off is like letting a bird out of its cage to me. talk about an easy mode death.

but we can not depend on obtaining spiritual truth by the things of the world. to force a physical view of revelation (one of the most grand of all visions the church has ever received from heaven ) is folly. but then again, most of the earthly churches are the harlot on the beast anyways, they should be obtaining eagles wings but they ride the beast. the beast has no wings, it walks on the dirt and on the sand of the sea and the harlot rides him. the wings the woman has are something of the heaven. there are 2 understandings, one is the wisdom of the world which is carnal and folly and the other is Christ who became our wisdom. the true horror is seeing all the spiritually dead Christians and not being able to really do anything about it, they just don't listen and I myself am so weak i am surprised I have not again fainted in the streets.

 

[janeyann]

No I agree with what you've said, but it is important that Christians are on the lookout so they do not accept the mark right?

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

People have been going on about the mark of the beast since the 70’s. The bar code is meant to include the 666 in it, but when you look into it you find out that it doesn’t. The mark of the beast is contrasted in Rev. with the mark of God, so it was meant as a symbolic thing, a contrast to the mark of allegiance to God, rather that allegiance to Rome and the emperor.

People talk about a cashless society, but where is that mentioned in the bible? Or where is a one-world government mentioned in the bible? People go on about Obama being the antichrist, and say he has fulfilled prophesies in Daniel, which were actually about Antiochus IV.
I accept that Antiochus IV might be an archetype for an antichrist, but the arguments don’t seem very good to me. I don’t accept Revelation because it is contrary to the Jesus of the gospels, and is also contrary to Paul’s theology about salvation through faith in Christ. Revelation is an Old Testament type of book, with a fierce and vengeful Yahweh, and judgement based on works.

I used to think it was because of different dispensations, but that’s because I hadn’t understood what Revelation was, as I couldn’t understand the judgement by works, in the ‘great white throne judgment’ which I don’t believe in anymore. I think people are judged in the present, when they are still alive, by acceptance or not, of Christ. Those who accept Christ are not judged in any post millennial judgement event in the future. When you study the eschatology for a long time, you discover that the millennium of Revelation cannot be true. It doesn’t work as literal or symbol.

Someone over on eschatology forced me off that forum, but I should have reported that post, as it was just a bully tactic, because he couldn’t face any challenge to the way the various churches have tried to sort out the mess of eschatology, including Revelation and Daniel. I don’t believe in a future resurrection, I think that was a Jewish idea that developed over the years, until at about 200 BC they wrote it into Daniel’s last chapter.
Jesus is reported to have said on the cross, to the thief, that they would both be in paradise on that day, so how could there be a future resurrection, if there is life after death, it doesn’t make any sense. Life after death seems to be a Greek idea, rather than the Jewish resurrection, but I think the Greeks were right about it. The Greek idea was worked into Church thinking, so that historically, most people in the Church, both Catholic and Protestant, have been amillennial, as that’s the only way to sort the issue out, although it’s not perfect.

 

[Noxot]

No I agree with what you've said, but it is important that Christians are on the lookout so they do not accept the mark right?

yeah stay on guard and watch out, but watch out for what? if someone is gonna start killing people for not worshiping him and not receiving a computer chip, then we ought to want to die just because so many people in this world let everything build up to that in the first place. but I think the mark of the beast are the spirits and mindsets of the world. I think to get a good grasp on what the book of revelation means, you would have to be as wise as Jesus Christ or king solomon or paul the apostle.

 

[DARRELLll]

I Am Real Sorry To Say That I Have Not Heard One Word Here , That Is From God. It Is All Mans Atempete To Understand,

 

[Soulgazer]

I Am Real Sorry To Say That I Have Not Heard One Word Here , That Is From God. It Is All Mans Atempete To Understand,

That's because "Revelation", if studied critically against history and the Gospels, does not show any genuine earmarks as having been from God.

 

[Noxot]

it is very plain to me that it is a spiritual book, i wonder what keep others from seeing what i see?

I have far more faith in the invisible ordering of things than for the physical reality. hermas is also deeply spiritual and yet most reject it. hmm we should reject acts too because stephan and paul and peter had a vision. we should reject the gospels because they speak of creatures in people that are not seen with the eye. yeah that makes sense, as much sense as the world who does not know God has!

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

All the other apocalypses from the same era were rejected. I don't see why we should be forced to accept this single apocraphal apocalypse, just because it eventually made it into the canon of the Western church.