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I really hate the book of Revelation

Soulgazer

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All the other apocalypses from the same era were rejected. I don't see why we should be forced to accept this single apocraphal apocalypse, just because it eventually made it into the canon of the Western church.
Thats the meaning of "catholic". The sectarianism that threatened to rip Christianity apart was mollified by a cannon that included some from all of the differing sects. Not everyone was pleased to have the Naasene "Gospel of John" either, and others cried because their favorite scriptures were left out. Even at the time of Constantine, the new catholicism was a drop in the bucket compared to the Marcionite Christians, whom were their competitors and chief rivals for the affection of the masses. They could not afford to leave anyone out, even the Apocalyptic sect, which were considered looney toons even then. The only ones left out were the Montanists who eschewed any writings whatsoever. The bible was an anthology of Christian writings compiled by catholics to promote catholicism. Nor was it an "exclusive canon". It was not supposed to be the end all and be all of scripture, but the centerpiece of a massive corpus of scripture. It is limited to the number of scriptures that it has because of the simple expediency that to include more would have required more volumes. Such writings such as the "Gospel of Nicodemus", "Proto-James" and the ever popular "Apocalypse of Peter" were preached from until the sixteenth century. The "bible only" movement is relatively new, and the result of paganism creeping into Christiaity as reactionism against the excesses and abuses of the church. Everything from selling forgiveness in advance(house of prostitution next tuesday? One farthing.), to the seduction of virgins(Hush child, God will give you your blessing later) are all very well documented, as the Bishops and Priests would claim "Secret" knowledge to work their desires among the sheeple.
 
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Noxot

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dunno why they were considered loony toons but paul was!

Acts 26:24-25 (YLT)
And, he thus making a defence, Festus with a loud voice said, `Thou art mad, Paul; much learning doth turn thee mad;' and he saith, `I am not mad, most noble Festus, but of truth and soberness the sayings I speak forth;

btw we Christians do have secret knowledge, it is hidden from the world. Christ told us to not cast pearls before swine, and so they were hidden in the letter.

just got to be a new lump and then later we can be a new lump with some leaven. the ways of the world are the only madness I see. faith is not logical to human, i see it plainly, that the prophets of old did have the divine spirit in them, again i don't know why gnostic christians would not believe that. the funny thing is that the very quote you soulgazer quote to say that we should not believe the prophets, is in complete concord with my understanding of how the prophets should be read.

because no one should read the prophets as the prophets, they must read them with the spirit of Christ. the perception of who the prophets are is going to be very ugly without Christ as the light to show the truth of what was hidden from the world. I almost would like to say that gnostic christians fell into the same trap as the catholic christians, they started being carnal minded. but I am not done learning about gnostic christians yet.

at least this is how I read the gnostic things I have read, i don't view them in a literal way, neither do i view the bible scriptures in a literal way, i'm still perplexed at what is going on with everything. but I really don't think a literal view of things is good compared to the 3rd view of the spirit or even the second view of the soul, the first view of the flesh is good but to be rejected when it gives insane commands.

I want to see just how far the gnostic christian view and the mystical view can connect. i believe the 2 have much in common.
 
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Soulgazer

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dunno why they were considered loony toons but paul was!

Acts 26:24-25 (YLT)
And, he thus making a defence, Festus with a loud voice said, `Thou art mad, Paul; much learning doth turn thee mad;' and he saith, `I am not mad, most noble Festus, but of truth and soberness the sayings I speak forth;

btw we Christians do have secret knowledge, it is hidden from the world. Christ told us to not cast pearls before swine, and so they were hidden in the letter.

just got to be a new lump and then later we can be a new lump with some leaven. the ways of the world are the only madness I see. faith is not logical to human, i see it plainly, that the prophets of old did have the divine spirit in them, again i don't know why gnostic christians would not believe that. the funny thing is that the very quote you soulgazer quote to say that we should not believe the prophets, is in complete concord with my understanding of how the prophets should be read.

because no one should read the prophets as the prophets, they must read them with the spirit of Christ. the perception of who the prophets are is going to be very ugly without Christ as the light to show the truth of what was hidden from the world. I almost would like to say that gnostic christians fell into the same trap as the catholic christians, they started being carnal minded. but I am not done learning about gnostic christians yet.

Noxot, I'm not sure how you got to there from the history of the bible; but the secret knowledge that we christians hold is not for the seduction of virgins.

I represent only myself, and not all Gnostics when I say that I don't believe anyone can mystically fortell the future. As for clarifying the Nature of God? Jesus Himself stated that all that had come before Him were as thieves and robbers. With this, I have to agree---Jesus certainly did not call bears out of the woods to kill children, rebuked His disciples when they asked Him if they could call fire out of the sky to destroy a town that rejected Him, didn't let a sinner get stoned to death, and declared the Sabbath has having been created for man, not man for the sabbath.
These are questions that have rocked the catholic school of christianity for centuries, and during that time generated tons of apologetics. Why all the words to explain a few? Because they need a ton of words to drive a square peg into a round hole. I like the simpler more logical explanation. No one gets to the Father, even in understanding the elements falsely attributed to the Father, except through the Son. Thus, anything about God not filtered through the Son specifically, must by it's very nature, be suspect.
I believe that people were doing their best to write about God, but ended up creating a false version of God, like a child with fingerpaints trying to draw his daddy. Jesus, for all intents and purposes introduced a new God, one that the world had never known---- like comparing the fingerpainting to the person just entering the room.
 
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interpreter

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Noxot, I'm not sure how you got to there from the history of the bible; but the secret knowledge that we christians hold is not for the seduction of virgins.

I represent only myself, and not all Gnostics when I say that I don't believe anyone can mystically fortell the future. As for clarifying the Nature of God? Jesus Himself stated that all that had come before Him were as thieves and robbers. With this, I have to agree---Jesus certainly did not call bears out of the woods to kill children, rebuked His disciples when they asked Him if they could call fire out of the sky to destroy a town that rejected Him, didn't let a sinner get stoned to death, and declared the Sabbath has having been created for man, not man for the sabbath.
These are questions that have rocked the catholic school of christianity for centuries, and during that time generated tons of apologetics. Why all the words to explain a few? Because they need a ton of words to drive a square peg into a round hole. I like the simpler more logical explanation. No one gets to the Father, even in understanding the elements falsely attributed to the Father, except through the Son. Thus, anything about God not filtered through the Son specifically, must by it's very nature, be suspect.
I believe that people were doing their best to write about God, but ended up creating a false version of God, like a child with fingerpaints trying to draw his daddy. Jesus, for all intents and purposes introduced a new God, one that the world had never known---- like comparing the fingerpainting to the person just entering the room.
The proof of God is the fulfillment of Bible prophecy.
 
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Soulgazer

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The proof of God is the fulfillment of Bible prophecy.
I've examined all the so-called "prophesy" and it can only be by tradition and disengenuous mental calisthentics that it can be called "genuine".

Matthew, for just one example out of many, saw prophecy fulfillment in the birth of Jesus at Bethlehem. When the wise men inquired about the birth of the king of the Jews, Herod called the chief priests and scribes together and asked where the Christ would be born.
"Matthew" relates: "So they said unto him, "In Bethlehem of Judea, for thus it is written by the prophet: `But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, Are not the least among the rulers of Judah; For out of you shall come a Ruler Who will shepherd My people Israel'" (2:5-6).​
The place where this was written was Micah 5:2, which causes me to shake my head at how New Testament writers sometimes distorted Old Testament scriptures to suit their needs, and worse, how people buy into this as "prophesy" to convince themselves that an obvious fan fiction is factual.
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel."


Micah isn't even talking about the name of a TOWN, but the name of a person! If this were a genuine prophesy, Jesus would have to be of the LINEAGE of Ephrathah. Bethlehem was an Old Testament character descended from Caleb through Hur, the firstborn son of Caleb's second wife, Ephrathah (I Chron. 2:18; 2:50-52; 4:4)


For "belief", I may use these verses, but to argue over them one may as well argue over how many bread crumbs were dropped by Hansel and Gretal. It's obvous fan fiction. Don't get me wrong, I love "Matthew". However, as a source of beans to argue over, no.
 
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Noxot

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very interesting stuff. i'm gonna copy and past some verses but i don't have a proper answer yet, I honestly dunno if i could learn what it means but I would like to.

The posterity of Caleb the son of Hezron

1Chr 2:18-20 (YLT)
And Caleb son of Hezron hath begotten Azubah, Isshah, and Jerioth; and these are her sons: Jesher, and Shobab, and Ardon. And Azubah dieth, and Caleb taketh to him Ephrath, and she beareth to him Hur. And Hur begat Uri, and Uri begat Bezaleel.


H672 אֶפרָת אֶפרָתָה 'Ephraath (ef-rawth') (or mEphrathah {ef-raw'-thaw}) n/p.
1. fruitfulness
2. Ephrath, another name for Bethlehem
3. once (Psa. 132
4. (also) of an Israelitish woman
[from H6509]
KJV: Ephrath, Ephratah.
Root(s): H6509

H2354 חוּר Chuwr (khoor) n/p.
1. Chur, the name of four Israelites and one Midianite
[the same as H2353 or H2352]
KJV: Hur.

H2353 חוּר chuwr (khoor) n-m.
1. white linen
[from H2357]
KJV: white.
Root(s): H2357

H2352 חוּר חוּר chuwr (khoor) (or (shortened) chur {khoor}) n-m.
1. the crevice of a serpent
2. the cell of a prison
[from an unused root probably meaning to bore]
KJV: hole.

H221 אוּרִי 'Uwriy (oo-ree') n/p.
1. fiery
2. Uri, the name of three Israelites
[from H217]
KJV: Uri.
Root(s): H217

H1212 בְּצַלאֵל Btsal'el (bets-al-ale') n/p.
1. in (the) shadow (i.e. protection) of God
2. Betsalel, the name of two Israelites
[probably from H6738 and H410 with a prepositional prefix]
KJV: Bezaleel.
Root(s): H6738, H410


Exod 31:1-11 (YLT)
And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying, `See, I have called by name Bezaleel, son of Uri, son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, and I fill him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all work, to devise devices to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, and in graving of stone for settings, and in graving of wood to work in all work. `And I, lo, I have given with him Aholiab, son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan, and in the heart of every wise-hearted one I have given wisdom, and they have made all that which I have commanded thee. `The tent of meeting, and the ark of testimony, and the mercy-seat which is on it, and all the vessels of the tent, and the table and its vessels, and the pure candlestick and all its vessels, and the altar of the perfume, and the altar of the burnt-offering and all its vessels, and the laver and its base, and the coloured garments, and the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, for acting as priests in; and the anointing oil, and the perfume of the spices for the sanctuary; according to all that I have commanded thee--they do.'

Exod 36:1-3 (YLT)
And Bezaleel, and Aholiab, and every wise-hearted man, in whom Jehovah hath given wisdom and understanding to know to do every work of the service of the sanctuary, have done according to all that Jehovah commanded. And Moses calleth unto Bezaleel, and unto Aholiab, and unto every wise-hearted man in whose heart Jehovah hath given wisdom, every one whom his heart lifted up, to come near unto the work to do it. And they take from before Moses all the heave-offering which the sons of Israel have brought in for the work of the service of the sanctuary to do it; and still they have brought in unto him a willing-offering morning by morning.



H171 אָהֳלִיאָב 'Oholiy'ab (o''-hol-e-awb') n/p.
1. tent of (his) father
2. Oholiab, an Israelite
[from H168 and H1]
KJV: Aholiab.
Root(s): H168, H1

Mic 5:1-4 (YLT)
Now gather thyself together, O daughter of troops, A siege he hath laid against us, With a rod they smite on the cheek the judge of Israel. And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth--to be ruler in Israel, And his comings forth are of old, From the days of antiquity. Therefore he doth give them out till the time She who bringeth forth hath brought forth, And the remnant of his brethren return to the sons of Israel. And he hath stood and delighted in the strength of Jehovah, In the excellency of the name of Jehovah his God, And they have remained, For now he is great unto the ends of earth.


Beth-Lehem Ephratah is a spiritual type and shadow of the spiritual reality. she is one of the daughters of zion, of the place where the new jerusalem is from. I don't completely get it but I have faith God will show someone.

Matt 2:1-12 (YLT)
And Jesus having been born in Beth-Lehem of Judea, in the days of Herod the king, lo, mages from the east came to Jerusalem, saying, `Where is he who was born king of the Jews? for we saw his star in the east, and we came to bow to him.' And Herod the king having heard, was stirred, and all Jerusalem with him, and having gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he was inquiring from them where the Christ is born. And they said to him, `In Beth-Lehem of Judea, for thus it hath been written through the prophet, And thou, Beth-Lehem, the land of Judah, thou art by no means the least among the leaders of Judah, for out of thee shall come one leading, who shall feed My people Israel.' Then Herod, privately having called the mages, did inquire exactly from them the time of the appearing star, and having sent them to Beth-Lehem, he said, `Having gone--inquire ye exactly for the child, and whenever ye may have found, bring me back word, that I also having come may bow to him.' And they, having heard the king, departed, and lo, the star, that they did see in the east, did go before them, till, having come, it stood over where the child was. And having seen the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy, and having come to the house, they found the child with Mary his mother, and having fallen down they bowed to him, and having opened their treasures, they presented to him gifts, gold, and frankincense, and myrrh, and having been divinely warned in a dream not to turn back unto Herod, through another way they withdrew to their own region.
 
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timbo3

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I would like to say this about the original post. The mark of the beast does exist and is very real. they are in production right now to be introduced in the near future. if you don't believe it, look it up! A microchip involving radio frequency inserted into the hand, it's all mentioned in the bible too.

At Revelation 13, it speaks of the "mark" of the "wild beast". However, it need be understood first what the "image of the wild beast" is in order to accurately determine what the "mark" is as well as the "wild beast" after which it is patterned. This same "image of the wild beast" is also called "a scarlet-colored wild beast" at Revelation 17, that is ridden upon by a "harlot" named Babylon the Great.(Rev 17:3, 5)

The "wild beast" seen at Revelation 13:1, 2, is a creation of the "dragon", Satan the Devil.(Rev 12:9) Drawing from "the sea" or the restless masses of mankind (Isa 57:20), he produced a political "wild beast" that does his bidding, for Revelation 13:4 says that "they (all the political nations) worshiped the dragon because it gave authority to the wild beast."

From within this political "wild beast" arises another "wild beast (that) had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon."(Rev 13:11) This is the "seventh king" seen at Revelation 17:10, that upon arriving "must remain a short while". This "seventh king" is the Anglo/American dual world power, Britain-America.

This "seventh king" tells "those on the earth to make an image to the wild beast (Satan's entire political arrangement) that had the sword stroke and yet revived."(Rev 13:14) Following the end of World War I in 1919, the United States and Britain proposed a so-called peacekeeping organization called the League of Nations. Thence, on January 16, 1920, this League of Nations came into existence, with 42 member nations. By 1934, it had 58.

This "image" pushed nationalism, backed by Britain-America, wanting everyone to have its "mark", giving it full support, either by a "hand" of support by financial means or "upon their forehead", showing outwardly that they give full credence to this "image" or man-made political organization. This "image" went into non-existence on September 1, 1939, but was revived on October 24, 1945 as the United Nations, with at present 193 member nations.(Rev 17:8)

Although the nations have ' wondered admiringly' concerning this political so-called peacekeeping organization (Rev 17:8b), giving it accolades, to Jehovah God it is disgusting, for even Popes (Paul VI in 1965 and John Paul II in 1979) have presented it as God's means of bringing peace to the earth, replacing God's kingdom as the only hope for mankind.(Matt 6:9, 10)

This political "image" though has been assigned a number, 666, representative of its gross imperfection and inability to bring genuine peace. The number seven in the Bible pictures completeness in God's eyes, such as the "seven (creative) days" as well as "seven"days in a week.(Gen 2:2) This is further established as at Genesis 4:15 regarding Cain as well in the dream of Pharaoh at Genesis 41, bringing to an end or completion a period of time as well at Exodus 12:15, 19 as well many other places.
 
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interpreter

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I've examined all the so-called "prophesy" and it can only be by tradition and disengenuous mental calisthentics that it can be called "genuine".

Matthew, for just one example out of many, saw prophecy fulfillment in the birth of Jesus at Bethlehem. When the wise men inquired about the birth of the king of the Jews, Herod called the chief priests and scribes together and asked where the Christ would be born.
"Matthew" relates: "So they said unto him, "In Bethlehem of Judea, for thus it is written by the prophet: `But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, Are not the least among the rulers of Judah; For out of you shall come a Ruler Who will shepherd My people Israel'" (2:5-6).​
The place where this was written was Micah 5:2, which causes me to shake my head at how New Testament writers sometimes distorted Old Testament scriptures to suit their needs, and worse, how people buy into this as "prophesy" to convince themselves that an obvious fan fiction is factual.
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel."


Micah isn't even talking about the name of a TOWN, but the name of a person! If this were a genuine prophesy, Jesus would have to be of the LINEAGE of Ephrathah. Bethlehem was an Old Testament character descended from Caleb through Hur, the firstborn son of Caleb's second wife, Ephrathah (I Chron. 2:18; 2:50-52; 4:4)


For "belief", I may use these verses, but to argue over them one may as well argue over how many bread crumbs were dropped by Hansel and Gretal. It's obvous fan fiction. Don't get me wrong, I love "Matthew". However, as a source of beans to argue over, no.
The wise men, and Herod's wise men all agreed that Micah was saying that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.
However I was talking about the 7 last plagues that follow the great tribulation of WW II, and are now being poured out. The plagues of skin cancer, red tides, and global warming are proof that God exists.
 
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Soulgazer

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The wise men, and Herod's wise men all agreed that Micah was saying that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.
However I was talking about the 7 last plagues that follow the great tribulation of WW II, and are now being poured out. The plagues of skin cancer, red tides, and global warming are proof that God exists.
Yep, but you are standing on your head to make it come out that way.

I would say "Matthew" made it up as a literary device. Herod's "Wise men" in real life would not have mistaken the name of a person for the name of a town. It was a convenient literary device, so the author simply changed it from the name of a person to the name of a town.

What about the other great plagues? Englands world war against france and spain, the great die outs that killed massive percentages of the earths population; The only reason anyone could apply the "revelation" to today is if they want it to be.

All "prophecies" are just so much parlor tricks, and "fulfilled" only by people who want to see them that way.
 
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Phantasman

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Yep, but you are standing on your head to make it come out that way.

I would say "Matthew" made it up as a literary device. Herod's "Wise men" in real life would not have mistaken the name of a person for the name of a town. It was a convenient literary device, so the author simply changed it from the name of a person to the name of a town.

What about the other great plagues? Englands world war against france and spain, the great die outs that killed massive percentages of the earths population; The only reason anyone could apply the "revelation" to today is if they want it to be.

All "prophecies" are just so much parlor tricks, and "fulfilled" only by people who want to see them that way.

I remember in the late 70s when AIDS was going to eventually wipe man from the face of the Earth. People wouldn't be able to have sex, and most wouldn't stop having it and the disease was going to spread to everyone and kill them. Churches preached it was from God through homosexual acts, and only married monogamists were saved.
 
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timewerx

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Jesus, for all intents and purposes introduced a new God, one that the world had never known---- like comparing the fingerpainting to the person just entering the room.

Actually it's the opposite. The pre-flood God of Enoch is also the One Jesus calls Father.

Based on the Book of Enoch, salvation in Pre-flood is also through "repentance from wicked deeds"

Animal sacrifice in the Bible is in question since it is also quite popular in pagan religions, even in witchcraft/divination. It's possible that Biblical references to animal sacrifices were influenced/corrupted by pagan beliefs. In paganism/occult, the deity to whom they appease by animal sacrifice is certainly not God. They are certainly the "gods they have never known"

Today, the "god we have never known" include cars, super bowl sundays, carbon fiber skis, 5 bedroom house, fiberglass boat, american idol, actors, mp3s, android phones, iphone, macbook air, and the long list goes on...

The sheep have strayed from the path and got lost. Jesus is simply finding His lost sheep and put them back to the path to eternal life, to His home! The teachings of Jesus is not new, it's only lost and found.
 
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Phantasman

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Today, the "god we have never known" include cars, super bowl sundays, carbon fiber skis, 5 bedroom house, fiberglass boat, american idol, actors, mp3s, android phones, iphone, macbook air, and the long list goes on...

Whew. I didn't see my XBox 360 in that list.:p
 
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interpreter

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Yep, but you are standing on your head to make it come out that way.

I would say "Matthew" made it up as a literary device. Herod's "Wise men" in real life would not have mistaken the name of a person for the name of a town. It was a convenient literary device, so the author simply changed it from the name of a person to the name of a town.

What about the other great plagues? Englands world war against france and spain, the great die outs that killed massive percentages of the earths population; The only reason anyone could apply the "revelation" to today is if they want it to be.

All "prophecies" are just so much parlor tricks, and "fulfilled" only by people who want to see them that way.
Are you a global warming denier? There were other great plagues, but they were not the last plagues, and did not fit the time frame of after the great tribulation of WW II, and before the Battle of Ar Mageddon, which is last plague # 7 (WW III).
 
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Soulgazer

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Are you a global warming denier? There were other great plagues, but they were not the last plagues, and did not fit the time frame of after the great tribulation of WW II, and before the Battle of Ar Mageddon, which is last plague # 7 (WW III).
Neither a warming nor mini Ice age denier.
 
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Barraco

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hiscosmicgoldfish said:
And the book of Daniel.

I used to believe that these books were the word of God. Now I believe that they are completely false. I can’t stand all the rubbish that people go on about with eschatology, endlessly quoting from Daniel and Revelation. If you are led by the Spirit, eventually it becomes clear, that not everything that ‘they’ included in the bible is the word of God.

There is not going to be any mark of the beast. There is no antichrist, and never will be. The book of Revelation is totally devoid of the love of God. It is a rant by a very angry, disgruntled and unloving individual, who wanted the peoples of the world killed by God, in revenge for the activities of the Romans, back two thousand years ago, when people didn’t know any better.

One word: Exegesis.

Opinions are fun and all. But if you want to know the truth behind a text, an exegesis is the best way.

An exegesis would reveal that Jewish background suddenly and abruptly ended in Christian theological and literary history, save perhaps for the writings of Justin Martyr. The majority of theology was based on Greek and Latin thinking.

So, how can you properly interpret Christian theology based on Jewish background by using Greek or Latin theology? No wonder you're so frustrated.

Using a broad sword for surgery is a good comparison.
 
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hiscosmicgoldfish

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One word: Exegesis.

Opinions are fun and all. But if you want to know the truth behind a text, an exegesis is the best way.

An exegesis would reveal that Jewish background suddenly and abruptly ended in Christian theological and literary history, save perhaps for the writings of Justin Martyr. The majority of theology was based on Greek and Latin thinking.

So, how can you properly interpret Christian theology based on Jewish background by using Greek or Latin theology? No wonder you're so frustrated.

Using a broad sword for surgery is a good comparison.

i wrote some more on another thread about Revelation, but for me now, the issue is resolved. Revelation and Daniel have been removed from the canon of scripture, as far as I'm concerned.
 
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Barraco

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Soulgazer said:
Yep, but you are standing on your head to make it come out that way.

I would say "Matthew" made it up as a literary device. Herod's "Wise men" in real life would not have mistaken the name of a person for the name of a town. It was a convenient literary device, so the author simply changed it from the name of a person to the name of a town.

Matthew's main literary focus was to justify to Christian converts from Judaism that Jesus truly was the Promised Messiah and that they should not revert back to Judaism because the Jewish Nation was going to be destroyed. It was all Jewish in background. No Greek theology inserted. The use of the wise men, therefore, were mainly to illustrate Jesus' recognized as the Messiah. I find it ironic that the wise men recognized the Messiah from far off but the Jews that were around Him didn't even notice.
What about the other great plagues? Englands world war against france and spain, the great die outs that killed massive percentages of the earths population; The only reason anyone could apply the "revelation" to today is if they want it to be.

I think that, if you rightly divide Revelations into context and sequence, you won't be misled. Chapter 8-9's trumpets regarded the destruction of Jerusalem and the handing over of the kingdom of God to the Gentiles (Matthew 21:42-45; Matthew 22:7.) Chapter 10 revealed that the Times of the Gentiles would begin (Luke 21:24.) Chapter 11 showed the Gospel being proclaimed in power and authority until the Fullness of the Gentiles comes through (Matthew 22:8-10; Romans 11:25.) Chapters 12-14 gives a history of the persecution of the saints, first during the times of the Jews (Rev. 12:1-16) and then during the Times if the Gentiles (Rev. 12:17; 13) until the Times of the Gentiles is fulfilled (Rev. 14:1.) Chapters 15-18 discuss how the beast would be destroyed until the end of the Times of the Gentiles, culminating in Babylon's (Rome) destruction.

Knowing that layout helps us determine where in the sequence of prophecies we are. From what I can tell, we are in the sixth plague.
All "prophecies" are just so much parlor tricks, and "fulfilled" only by people who want to see them that way.

I disagree.
 
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Barraco

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hiscosmicgoldfish said:
i wrote some more on another thread about Revelation, but for me now, the issue is resolved. Revelation and Daniel have been removed from the canon of scripture, as far as I'm concerned.

well, is there any way I can get you to test my model and see if it holds up? Most eschatologists don't agree with it because its not preterist or futurist.
 
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