truth of the "rapture"

[Gregory Thompson]

Non sequitur, if you discount the OT, then you might as well throw out the entire OT and just have the 27 books of the NT.

That doesn't follow Enoch and Elijah were under the period Jesus described as the proclamation of the law and the prophets . we're in the kingdom of God period . so comparing the two instances does not follow . like comparing apples and oranges as the saying goes.

And besides, what of the resurrected saints that arose after Jesus' resurrection?

Where did they go?

With Him, or back to the graves?

If they went with Him, then there is another instance of a "rapture" just like the one described by the Apostle Paul.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I have found rapture is an every day thing .

when all the prophecies are done and people stop predicting when it is .. they realize what they were looking at was figurative at best.

the bible speaks of a resurrection. it does not speak of a rapture prior to or separate from the resurrection. this is an external idea that was inserted in the 1800s and i honestly don't buy it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

That fun war of words where the end justified the means and all sorts of lies were said about the Catholic Church to make converts.

Still the same today, same themes, same tune too. Ellen White merely repeated the calumnies of past generations and thought she could make people believe she was speaking under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I think there's somewhere around 14,000,000 people who follow her doctrines today but they are not very up-front about her being their prophet and her writings being inspired (in their opinion) and - quite strangely - they rarely identify themselves as Seventh Day Adventists in their TV bible-programs and evangelistic tracts. I don't know why they are shy like that, since most people will eventually figure out who they are and wonder why all the hiding ... anyway, it is strange for non-SDA folk to witness.

 

[Stryder06]

That may be very true, but it doesn't make numbers like 1000 literal.

Doesn't make them figurative either.

 

[Stryder06]

Oh please! Everybody knows that the first 'reformers' though they were in the last days themselves and they were keen, oh so keen, to identify the then Pope as Antichrist and the Catholic church as all the bad things in the Apocalypse of John. Those reformers would probably have executed Ellen White for pretending to the office of prophet and claiming direct inspiration for her writings! But that being said, you are very coy about Ellen White as the source for your perspective on end times. Don't be shy, we can take it, we might chuckle a little at some of the technicalities of her stated views but we can take it

Don't be jealous because Sr White got her inspiriation from God How many of your Popes can say the same. Unless you know something different, I've been told that not a single Pope made the claim that their writings were inspired by God. Of course that was a few years ago when I first joined. Perhaps that's been changed.

And I'm not playing "coy" about my perspective. What we're talking about has nothing to do with Ellen. It's really that simple. But I like how you've shifted the focus on an unrelated topic (Ellen) instead of answering the question I posed. How can your church say what's wrong when it doesn't know what's right, given that it doesn't have an offical view on the end? This is of course excluding the "Jesus comes back and we live hapily ever after" responses I've been given several times.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Doesn't make them figurative either.

Absolutely it does make them figurative. That's the whole point.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Stryder, how is Ellen White different than Joseph Smith?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Don't be jealous because Sr White got her inspiriation from God How many of your Popes can say the same. Unless you know something different, I've been told that not a single Pope made the claim that their writings were inspired by God. Of course that was a few years ago when I first joined. Perhaps that's been changed.

And I'm not playing "coy" about my perspective. What we're talking about has nothing to do with Ellen. It's really that simple. But I like how you've shifted the focus on an unrelated topic (Ellen) instead of answering the question I posed. How can your church say what's wrong when it doesn't know what's right, given that it doesn't have an offical view on the end? This is of course excluding the "Jesus comes back and we live hapily ever after" responses I've been given several times.

Well where your prophetess got her inspiration from, like about the giants who inhabit Jupiter, is a subject for another thread.

But the fact of the matter is, you reject a common sense approach to Revelation which would acknowlege the facts of its genre, and all that means, and you do so because of what you have adpoted to guide you in interpreting scripture. If you choose the wrong guide, that doesnt' change the genre a book is written in, and doesn't change the fact that Revelation is of the apocalyptic genre any more than that changes the fact that the Song of Solomon is of the poetic genre.

 

[gawfour]

Wow very interesting.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Wow very interesting.

lol which part?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by gawfour Wow very interesting.

lol which part?

Since he didn't reply to a specific post, I assume he means he is enthralled with this whole thread topic...

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[MoreCoffee]

... Unless you know something different, I've been told that not a single Pope made the claim that their writings were inspired by God. ....

Well done! It's about time you noticed that there's a difference between infallibility and inspiration! The pity is that Ellen White didn't know that there was a difference .... and it looks like you approve of her claims to the gift of prophetic inspiration. So, when are you going to glue her inspired writings into your bible?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well done! It's about time you noticed that there's a difference between infallibility and inspiration! The pity is that Ellen White didn't know that there was a difference .... and it looks like you approve of her claims to the gift of prophetic inspiration. So, when are you going to glue her inspired writings into your bible?

now now . even if your assumption were correct . even the Catechism will never be pasted inside the bible .

 

[MoreCoffee]

now now . even if your assumption were correct . even the Catechism will never be pasted inside the bible .

No Catholic worth his/her salt claims that the Catechism is infallible, let alone inspired by the Holy Spirit!

What is surprising is the ease with which folk confuse the idea of infallibility - which means nothing more than to be right, true, error-free in a particular statement - and the idea of inspiration - which means revelation from God that is produced by the Holy Spirit in and through a human agent. Many things that are not inspired are true and wholly reliable but nothing that is inspired is not infallible. And it ought to be remembered that sacred scripture states very simply and factually that "all scripture is inspired of God", so very naturally, when Ellen White claims inspiration for her writings, we ask why her writings are not included with the other inspired writings that make up sacred scripture?

It seems therefore, quite obvious, that either Ellen White and her followers lack the conviction of their claim to inspiration or that they were ignorant of the meaning of the word and used it inappropriately.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

No Catholic worth his/her salt claims that the Catechism is infallible, let alone inspired by the Holy Spirit!

What is surprising is the ease with which folk confuse the idea of infallibility - which means nothing more than to be right, true, error-free in a particular statement - and the idea of inspiration - which means revelation from God that is produced by the Holy Spirit in and through a human agent. Many things that are not inspired are true and wholly reliable but nothing that is inspired is not infallible. And it ought to be remembered that sacred scripture states very simply and factually that "all scripture is inspired of God", so very naturally, when Ellen White claims inspiration for her writings, we ask why her writings are not included with the other inspired writings that make up sacred scripture?

It seems therefore, quite obvious, that either Ellen White and her followers lack the conviction of their claim to inspiration or that they were ignorant of the meaning of the word and used it inappropriately.

Claiming inspiration and claiming infallibility .. is this the same?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Claiming inspiration and claiming infallibility .. is this the same?

Obviously not. Did you read the post you quoted?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Obviously not. Did you read the post you quoted?

Yes . i was just asking . because i wasn't sure what your view on it was.

Now the cardinals and the Pope . do they have some ability to speak for God in an inspired way today?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes . i was just asking . because i wasn't sure what your view on it was.

Now the cardinals and the Pope . do they have some ability to speak for God in an inspired way today?

No, no person today enjoys the gift of inspiration because this gift is a gift of revelation from God that produces sacred scripture. 2 Timothy 3:16 is the place to look for inspiration.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

No, no person today enjoys the gift of inspiration because this gift is a gift of revelation from God that produces sacred scripture. 2 Timothy 3:16 is the place to look for inspiration.

But what if one teaching of the Pope contradicts scripture? what happens then? are people obligated to do what he says anyway?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Yes . i was just asking . because i wasn't sure what your view on it was.

Now the cardinals and the Pope . do they have some ability to speak for God in an inspired way today?

The Full deposit of faith was given to the aposltes, Nothing new may be added. The Charism of infallibility given to the apostles and those they ordained, and so forth, is to protect that all truth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Stryder06 ... Unless you know something different, I've been told that not a single Pope made the claim that their writings were inspired by God. ....

Well done! It's about time you noticed that there's a difference between infallibility and inspiration! The pity is that Ellen White didn't know that there was a difference .... and it looks like you approve of her claims to the gift of prophetic inspiration.
So, when are you going to glue her inspired writings into your bible?

I think the Pope and E.W. would have made a cute couple



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