truth of the "rapture"

[LittleLambofJesus]

Double post.........​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Hentenza What are you trying to show with the dialogue with Trypho? Nothing in the text that you cited addresses chiliasm? Justin Martyr was a chiliast.

Originally Posted by ViaCrucis
​

Justin recognizes that his view isn't the lone view. Demonstrating that, at the very least, Chiliasm wasn't the view of "all" Christians of the first couple hundred years, as your post implied.

-CryptoLutheran
​

Premillennialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Premillennialism

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This article is about Premillennialism in Christian eschatology. For other uses, see Millenarianism.


Premillennialism in Christian eschatology is the belief that Jesus Christ will literally and physically be on the earth for his millennial reign at his second coming. The doctrine is called premillennialism because it holds that Jesus' physical return to earth will occur prior to the inauguration of the millennium.
It is distinct from the other forms of Christian eschatology such as postmillennialism or amillennialism, which view the millennial rule as occurring either before the second coming, or as being figurative and non-temporal..

Historically Christian premillennialism has also been referred as "chiliasm" or "millenarianism". The theological term "premillennialism" did not come into general use until the mid-19th century, the modern period in which premillennialism was revived.
Coining the word was "almost entirely the work of British and American Protestants and was prompted by their belief that the French and American Revolutions (the French, especially) realized prophecies made in the books of Daniel and Revelation."[1]

The proponents of Amillennialism interpret the Millennium as being a symbolic period of time, consistent with the highly symbolic nature of the apocalyptic genre of the book of Revelation, sometimes indicating that the thousand years represent God's rule over his creation or the Church.
Premillennialism is often used to refer specifically to those who adhere to the beliefs in an earthly millennial reign of Christ as well as a rapture of the faithful coming before (dispensational) or after (historic) the tribulation preceding the millennium.
Post-millennialism, for example, agrees with premillennialism about the future earthly reign of Christ, but disagrees on the concept of a rapture and tribulation before the Millennium begins. Postmillennialists hold to the view that the second coming will happen after the Millennium.


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sorry .. seeing the word "chiliasm" and "chiliast" in a post too much was pretty funny . now to look up what that means .

It's so simple, even a child can understand it







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[LittleLambofJesus]

1. You claim the Apostles not only received "all truth," but that Jesus actually promised this to them.

2. You state here that amil was not agreed upon, well over 100 years later.

3. You are forced to either admit your church made up a position via submitting to human closure, or your statement in 1 is pure falsehood.

This is known as check, and mate. You have no way to wiggle out of error being propagated by your infallible church.

Whether or not amillenialism was agreed upon by all is really immaterial. The Church was under persecution. The Church had bigger fish to fry than worry about whether everyone agreed on the finer points of eschatological doctrines. That people do not agree in the first century is not proof that something was not taught. There are other factors that adequately explain why this disagreement existed. So no, there is no "check and mate." You missed by a longshot only looking superficially at the problem, and not looking into any confounding factors to your corollary.

So the Amill position is not accepted by all of Roman Catholicism?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7348339/
Catholic view of the end-times

Originally Posted by MoNiCa4316

I see that on our profiles at CF, we get to choose our 'endtimes' views. Which one is Catholic? I'm having some trouble figuring it out...

I know that the Church teaches Amilleninialism - which I put in bold. What about the other ones? Is it... historic, preterist, or futurist? Pretribulation, midtribulationm, posttribulation? hmm...

aren't we partial preterists?? (but here they don't make the distinction between 'full' and 'partial')

what about the tribulation? Does the Church teach that we'll be here for that - no rapture.. right?

So many names LOL

"Choose options that best describes your beliefs regarding endtimes.
Historic
Preterist
Futurist

Amillennialism
Premillennialism
Postmillennialism

Pretribulation
Midtribulation
Posttribulation"
​

 

[thereselittleflower]

So the Amill position is not accepted by all of Roman Catholicism?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7348339/
Catholic view of the end-times

Originally Posted by MoNiCa4316

I see that on our profiles at CF, we get to choose our 'endtimes' views. Which one is Catholic? I'm having some trouble figuring it out...

I know that the Church teaches Amilleninialism - which I put in bold. What about the other ones? Is it... historic, preterist, or futurist? Pretribulation, midtribulationm, posttribulation? hmm...

aren't we partial preterists?? (but here they don't make the distinction between 'full' and 'partial')

what about the tribulation? Does the Church teach that we'll be here for that - no rapture.. right?

So many names LOL

"Choose options that best describes your beliefs regarding endtimes.
Historic
Preterist
Futurist

Amillennialism
Premillennialism
Postmillennialism

Pretribulation
Midtribulation
Posttribulation"
​

Oh there is a difference between partial and full preterism. Full preterism denies the second coming, claiming it has already happened. This is heretical in the eyes of the Church.

Partial preterism allows for the 2nd coming.

The Church rejects any form of millenialism. The Church is amillenialist because it rejects millenialism.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Oh there is a difference between partial and full preterism. Full preterism denies the second coming, claiming it has already happened. This is heretical in the eyes of the Church.

Partial preterism allows for the 2nd coming.

The Church rejects any form of millenialism. The Church is amillenialist because it rejects millenialism.

Thank you.

So the Church believes it is now in the 1000 yr period and that Armegeddon is past, and the beast and false prophet are in the Lake of Fire for now.
According to that view, one can just lay back until Satan is released from his prison after the 1000 yr period and wait on the future Gog-Magog war.
It has already been over a 1000 yrs, so now what?

Pretty confusing to me

Rev 20:2
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is a Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

Amillennialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Amillennialism (Latin: a- "no" + millennialism) is a view in Christian end-times theology named for its rejection of the theory that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year-long, physical reign on the earth. This is in opposition to premillennial and some postmillennial interpretations of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation.

In contrast, the amillennial view holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age, (or more rarely, that it ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 — see Preterism). Amillennialism holds that while Christ's reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, at the end of the church age, Christ will return in final judgment and establish a permanent physical reign.

Many proponents dislike the name amillennialism because it emphasizes their differences with premillennialism rather than their beliefs about the millennium, and although they prefer alternate terms such as nunc-millennialism (that is, now-millennialism) or realized millennialism, the acceptance and widespread usage of the alternate names has been limited.[1]






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[LittleLambofJesus]

Tribulation is known as the "Day of Wrath."

Zephaniah 1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

We are not scheduled to go through it:

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Thou art a little confused on that me thinks
Where did Christ ever say that Christian Saints will not go thru tribulation?


http://www.christianforums.com/t7536748/
Difference between tribulation and wrath

Tribulation = wars, famines, plague, persecution, martyrdom which have been going on in frequency and intensity since Christ left.
Tribulation ends before the 6th seal. It is the state of the world that every Christian has lived under and has the grace and authority to endure and overcome through the blood of Christ and the Spirit of God.

Jhn 16:33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Rev 1:9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Act 14:22Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.


Wrath = Cast down devil, world reeling, cosmic disturbances, evil reigns and enslaves the world, each person's choice is either side with the devil or choose God (and die for it). No peace, no rest, nowhere to run, no overcoming by the blood of the Lamb, no hope unless it is hope in death/resurrection. Wrath begins at the 6th seal.

Isa 24:17Terror and pit and snare await you, O people of the earth.
Isa 24:18Whoever flees at the sound of terror will fall into a pit; whoever climbs out of the pit will be caught in a snare. The floodgates of the heavens are opened, the foundations of the earth shake.
Isa 24:19The earth is broken up, the earth is split asunder, the earth is thoroughly shaken.
Isa 24:20The earth reels like a drunkard, it sways like a hut in the wind; so heavy upon it is the guilt of its rebellion that it falls—never to rise again.
Isa 24:21In that day the LORD will punish the powers in the heavens above and the kings on the earth below.

Rev 9: 6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

...........

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[seeking Christ]

So wrath is worse than the great tribulation?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Thank you.

So the Church believes it is now in the 1000 yr period and that Armegeddon is past, and the beast and false prophet are in the Lake of Fire for now.
According to that view, one can just lay back until Satan is released from his prison after the 1000 yr period and wait on the future Gog-Magog war.
It has already been over a 1000 yrs, so now what?

Pretty confusing to me

Amillenialsim means without a literal millenial period.

There is no literal 1000 year period as your quote below indicates.

Scripture says Christ is reigning now.

Amillennialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Amillennialism (Latin: a- "no" + millennialism) is a view in Christian end-times theology named for its rejection of the theory that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year-long, physical reign on the earth. This is in opposition to premillennial and some postmillennial interpretations of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation.

In contrast, the amillennial view holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age, (or more rarely, that it ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 — see Preterism). Amillennialism holds that while Christ's reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, at the end of the church age, Christ will return in final judgment and establish a permanent physical reign.

Many proponents dislike the name amillennialism because it emphasizes their differences with premillennialism rather than their beliefs about the millennium, and although they prefer alternate terms such as nunc-millennialism (that is, now-millennialism) or realized millennialism, the acceptance and widespread usage of the alternate names has been limited.[1]






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[cajunhillbilly]

Partial preterist amillenialist here. Used to be pretrib premil, until I did a study of propetic views. Read A Case for Amillennialism: Understanding the End Times: Kim Riddlebarger: 9780801064357: Amazon.com: Books and Man of Sin, The: Uncovering the Truth about the Antichrist: Kim Riddlebarger: 9780801066061: Amazon.com: Books

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Partial preterist amillenialist here. Used to be pretrib premil, until I did a study of propetic views.

Read A Case for Amillennialism: Understanding the End Times: Kim Riddlebarger: 9780801064357: Amazon.com: Books and Man of Sin, The: Uncovering the Truth about the Antichrist: Kim Riddlebarger: 9780801066061: Amazon.com: Books

Great resources! Thou almost persuadest me to be Amill....





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[cajunhillbilly]

Great resources! Thou almost persuadest me to be Amill....





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[rakovsky]

The visions in Daniel (chapters 7 to 12) are apocalyptic and many non-canonical books from old testament times are too.
Wikipedia lists these Non-canonical: Apocalypse of Ezra (Greek)

Dear MoreCoffee,
I saw that you mentioned the Apocalypse of Ezra, which I read recently, and I wanted to write to you about it, but you don't allow PMs, unfortunately. The main thing that I want to figure out about it is the period in which it was written, so I want to invite you to the thread that I made about it: When do you think the Apocalypse of Ezra was written?

Peace.