What does it mean for God to "exist"?

[AV1611VET]

That is an image. It has shape, but no location. Can you send me that exact picture to me? As in, pluck it out of the webpage and send it to me via mail? Thanks. I will pay you!

Chances are, you've already got it.

 

[Asvin]

Chances are, you've already got it.

I don't have that in my home. That is just a picture of a book!

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't have that in my home.

By choice?

If so, with respect to your faith, in spite of your faith, or neither?

 

[Asvin]

By choice?

If so, with respect to your faith, in spite of your faith, or neither?

That is just an abstract object. One which has shape and no location. How, then, can I have it in my home, irrespective of my "faith"?

 

[seeking Christ]

That is an image. It has shape, but no location.

The location was Golgotha. You can visit it; many have.

 

[AV1611VET]

That is just an abstract object. One which has shape and no location. How, then, can I have it in my home, irrespective of my "faith"?

You're talking over my head now, Asvin; are you a scientist?

If you're really saying the two-dimensional image of the Bible in my post is not in your house, and not the Bible, Itself; then I think we're kinda done here, aren't we?

And for the record, if you're posting from home ... it is in your house (or was).

 

[Asvin]

You're talking over my head now, Asvin; are you a scientist?

If you're really saying the two-dimensional image of the Bible in my post is not in your house, and not the Bible, Itself; then I think we're kinda done here, aren't we?

And for the record, if you're posting from home ... it is in your house (or was).

Who's talking? I am typing. I don't know which Asvin you are "talking" to!

My parents own a bible.

No, it is not in my house!

 

[Orogeny]

Again. Love is a concept. It is a concept relating two or more objects. It is a relation between the chemicals of my body with those of a woman I find attractive.

And thus it is real, in that it can be measured and observed. Just saying it,s a concept doesn't make it so, particularly since I've provided evidence that it's not.

Don't derail your thread because you were wrong on this; accept the evidence and move along.

 

[Asvin]

And thus it is real, in that it can be measured and observed. Just saying it,s a concept doesn't make it so, particularly since I've provided evidence that it's not.

Don't derail your thread because you were wrong on this; accept the evidence and move along.

You can measure love? What is it measured in? Feet? Kilograms?

Re-read my reply again! The word love is a concept, not an object. That concept relates OBJECTS such as HORMONES or MOLECULES or whatever the heck that plays a role in the concept of love. Love does not exist!

 

[Loudmouth]

You're talking over my head now, Asvin; are you a scientist?

If you're really saying the two-dimensional image of the Bible in my post is not in your house, and not the Bible, Itself; then I think we're kinda done here, aren't we?

And for the record, if you're posting from home ... it is in your house (or was).

I think we can all agree that men can write stories about gods that they imagine.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

A thing is said to exist if it has shape and a location. It is said to be an object and it is physical. A car exists because it has a static distance from other objects (which is its location) and has space to give it contour. This is the definition I use to determine if actual physical objects exist.

Concepts like love, justice, running, mercy, morality, evil, god, satan, religion, afterlife, motion, etc. aren't objects because they lack shape and location. Can you draw me justice or love? NO! These are man-made ideas. God is a man-made idea.

Please define the word "exist" or "exists" unambiguously and explain how God exists. Is he an object (therefore having location and shape) or is he a concept (therefore being man-made) ?

I generally take it to mean you need evidence.

 

[Radagast]

The number pi exists as a concept! We define what it is!

Well, no. We can't define it to be anything other than what it is.

Wind and gravity are concepts that relate one object to another.

Gravity is not just a concept. Try jumping out of a window.

Does the universe exist? Again, the universe is a concept that relates objects such as planets and stars to each other!

The Universe is not just a concept. It is real. It is physical. If your definition of "exists" excludes the Universe, and excludes subatomic particles (which have no definite location), I can't but help think it flawed.

I can shout whenever I feel like it. I don't care if you like it or not!

OK, but in that case, I'm leaving the discussion.

Things can exist without being an object.

Indeed.

 

[Asvin]

Well, no. We can't define it to be anything other than what it is.



Gravity is not just a concept. Try jumping out of a window.



The Universe is not just a concept. It is real. It is physical. If your definition of "exists" excludes the Universe, and excludes subatomic particles (which have no definite location), I can't but help think it flawed.



OK, but in that case, I'm leaving the discussion.

Yes we can. We can define pi to be 8. Or 9. Or 1209932849324. We assume that pi is 3.141 because that's what most, if not all, mathematicians refer to when they use the word "pi."

Yes, gravity is a concept that relates two bodies with mass. Can you draw gravity?

The universe IS a concept because it relates two or more objects. We define the universe as matter (objects) and space (absence of objects). WE DEFINE. WE DEFINE. WE DEFINE. Ring a bell? It's a concept!

Oh no. Radagast. Please don't. I beg you! Please don't leave this discussion. I will spend the rest of my life wondering what would've happened if you would've stayed. Please don't Radagast. Pleaaaaaaaaaseeeeeeeeee!

 

[Carmella Prochaska]

Something can exist without having a shape & a visible location. You are presupposing materialism here if you restrict existence to only objects that are physical. God is not a physical object.

God is not a man-made object. His existence has been proven through everything that has been made & the realities of the spiritual realm. Ants do not know humans exist, yet we do.

Definitions Of Exist:

- To have actual being; be real.
- To have life; live
- To live at a minimal level; subsist
- To continue to be; persist
- To be present under certain circumstances or in a specified place; occur

God has all of these characteristics. Notice these definitions make no reference to the physical or to objects. God is neither an object nor a concept.

1. Time, space and matter came into existence at a certain point in the finite past.
2. Since time, space and matter began to exist they had a cause.
3. Therefore, whatever caused them was time-less, space-less and matter-less.

Your philosophy also includes things that have never been observed as physical objects. I'm assuming you believe in the Big Bang which means you believe in inflation, dark matter, dark energy & Oort clouds. These are not physical things that have been observed, only things deemed necessary for the theory. You are contradicting yourself.

 

[Asvin]

Something can exist without having a shape & a visible location. You are presupposing materialism here if you restrict existence to only objects that are physical. God is not a physical object.

God is not a man-made object. His existence has been proven through everything that has been made & the realities of the spiritual realm. Ants do not know humans exist, yet we do.

Definitions Of Exist:

- To have actual being; be real.
- To have life; live
- To live at a minimal level; subsist
- To continue to be; persist
- To be present under certain circumstances or in a specified place; occur

God has all of these characteristics. Notice these definitions make no reference to the physical or to objects. God is neither an object nor a concept.

1. Time, space and matter came into existence at a certain point in the finite past.
2. Since time, space and matter began to exist they had a cause.
3. Therefore, whatever caused them was time-less, space-less and matter-less.

Your philosophy also includes things that have never been observed as physical objects. I'm assuming you believe in the Big Bang which means you believe in inflation, dark matter, dark energy & Oort clouds. These are not physical things that have been observed, only things deemed necessary for the theory. You are contradicting yourself.

"God is not a physical object."

Correct answer! He is just a concept. A product of the human mind!

How does the existence of anything prove god's existence?

Please provide an unambiguous definition of the word "exist" so that you may not purposely or accidentally jump from one definition to another. One of your definitions say that "To have life; live." Does a car exist then? NO?

"God is neither an object nor a concept."

There are only three possible categories:

1) Objects (Have shape and location. Example: My Toyota Camry)
2) Concepts (Two kinds. Abstract objects and regular concepts. Abstract objects have shape, but no location. Example: A circle drawn on a piece of paper. Regular concepts have no shape and no location. Example: Justice.
3) Space (Space is nothing. It is the absence of Objects (first category))

How can time, which is a concept, come into existence? We humans defined what time is so that we can use it for different purposes. Does time exist in reality? Where is it located? What shape does it have?

I don't "believe" in the Big Bang Theory. I also don't "believe" in ridiculous stuff like dark matter and 0D particles.

 

[Asvin]

I generally take it to mean you need evidence.

I don't need evidence. I need rational unambiguous definitions and explanations!

 

[Loudmouth]

Definitions Of Exist:

- To have actual being; be real.
- To have life; live
- To live at a minimal level; subsist
- To continue to be; persist
- To be present under certain circumstances or in a specified place; occur

God has all of these characteristics.

What is stopping me from saying that God has all of these characteristics?

nonexistent
adj 1. not having being or existence
2. not present under specified conditions or in a specified place


Going by the histrionics seen in this thread, it would seem that God's existence is indistinguishable from something that doesn't exist.

 

[seeking Christ]

There are only three possible categories:

1) Objects (Have shape and location. Example: My Toyota Camry)
2) Concepts (Two kinds. Abstract objects and regular concepts. Abstract objects have shape, but no location. Example: A circle drawn on a piece of paper. Regular concepts have no shape and no location. Example: Justice.
3) Space (Space is nothing. It is the absence of Objects (first category))

This is where you disagree with everyone who has opined on this thread. There are more possible categories. Plus, space is not nothing. There is actually far more matter in space than I gave it credit for.

How can time, which is a concept, come into existence?

Does time exist in reality? Where is it located? What shape does it have?

I don't "believe" in the Big Bang Theory.

You ask some weighty questions here, and frankly education on these topics is far better now than when I was school-age. I'm not going to go into great detail on any of this, but science points to the idea that time had to come into being simultaneously with matter. Also, all evidence points to there being a finite beginning point, rather than a perpetual Universe. (Also an ending time)

W/o BBT, what is your view on origins?

 

[Asvin]

This is where you disagree with everyone who has opined on this thread. There are more possible categories. Plus, space is not nothing. There is actually far more matter in space than I gave it credit for.



You ask some weighty questions here, and frankly education on these topics is far better now than when I was school-age. I'm not going to go into great detail on any of this, but science points to the idea that time had to come into being simultaneously with matter. Also, all evidence points to there being a finite beginning point, rather than a perpetual Universe. (Also an ending time)

W/o BBT, what is your view on origins?

"There are more possible categories."

Please educate me!

Far more matter in space? Like what?

Time is a concept. It cannot come into "EXISTENCE." It cannot if you mean to say that time exists like cars, humans, animals, and plants do. If it does, please draw me a picture!

Oh shucks. I don't know if the universe had a "beginning." Please don't give me the electric chair!

 

[seeking Christ]

Time is a concept.

Time is more than just a concept. we can measure things with time. We can say that time is required for any thing to exist.

Oh shucks. I don't know if the universe had a "beginning." Please don't give me the electric chair!

Ok, how bout the comfy chair?