What does it mean for God to "exist"?

[Tiberius]

A thing is said to exist if it has shape and a location. It is said to be an object and it is physical. A car exists because it has a static distance from other objects (which is its location) and has space to give it contour. This is the definition I use to determine if actual physical objects exist.

Concepts like love, justice, running, mercy, morality, evil, god, satan, religion, afterlife, motion, etc. aren't objects because they lack shape and location. Can you draw me justice or love? NO! These are man-made ideas. God is a man-made idea.

Please define the word "exist" or "exists" unambiguously and explain how God exists. Is he an object (therefore having location and shape) or is he a concept (therefore being man-made) ?

I don't think you can claim that "motion" is a man made idea.

Nonetheless, I think that the term "Exists" can be used in more than the purely physical way that you are using it. You definition of the term would seem to indicate that temperature does not exist.

Perhaps it is better do define "exist" like this. Something exists if there is testable, repeatable and verifiable evidence to show that it occurs in reality, with this occurrence being measured by different techniques at different times in different places by different people and the results of these numerous tests all fitting an explanatory theory.

So cars exist, because we can test for the existence of cars. The laws describing how cars work are the same everywhere we find cars.

Again, for temperature. Temperature is not a physical thing, but we understand that it is a measure of the vibrations of the atoms and/or molecules making up a substance, with the amount of vibration being directly related to the amount of heat the object has.

However, I don't see how God can be shown to exist with this definition.

 

[seeking Christ]

I don't think you can claim that "motion" is a man made idea.

Nonetheless, I think that the term "Exists" can be used in more than the purely physical way that you are using it. You definition of the term would seem to indicate that temperature does not exist.

Perhaps it is better do define "exist" like this. Something exists if there is testable, repeatable and verifiable evidence to show that it occurs in reality, with this occurrence being measured by different techniques at different times in different places by different people

Your definition will still conclude that beauty and morality don't exist. You're going to have to do better.

 

[Tiberius]

Your definition will still conclude that beauty and morality don't exist. You're going to have to do better.

Why? Objective beauty and objective morality don't exist!

 

[Radagast]

Why? Objective beauty and objective morality don't exist!

Well, objective symmetry exists at least, even if objective beauty doesn't.

 

[Tiberius]

Well, objective symmetry exists at least, even if objective beauty doesn't.

Yes, but they aren't the same thing.

 

[Asvin]

I don't think you can claim that "motion" is a man made idea.

Nonetheless, I think that the term "Exists" can be used in more than the purely physical way that you are using it. You definition of the term would seem to indicate that temperature does not exist.

Perhaps it is better do define "exist" like this. Something exists if there is testable, repeatable and verifiable evidence to show that it occurs in reality, with this occurrence being measured by different techniques at different times in different places by different people and the results of these numerous tests all fitting an explanatory theory.

So cars exist, because we can test for the existence of cars. The laws describing how cars work are the same everywhere we find cars.

Again, for temperature. Temperature is not a physical thing, but we understand that it is a measure of the vibrations of the atoms and/or molecules making up a substance, with the amount of vibration being directly related to the amount of heat the object has.

However, I don't see how God can be shown to exist with this definition.

Temperature is just a word we came up with to describe how "hot" or "cold" something is. It describes the movement of molecules in the object we are trying to analyze. Yes, under the definition I gave earlier, temperature does not exist.

So you need evidence to show that something exists? Can you show me that the international space station exists?

 

[Asvin]

Well, objective symmetry exists at least, even if objective beauty doesn't.

What do you mean when you say objective symmetry exists?

I thought you were done with this thread when you ran away crying after I was accused of "shouting"?

 

[seeking Christ]

Yes, but they aren't the same thing.

Neither was your comment (objective beauty) the same as mine, which makes your comment mere obfuscation.

 

[Radagast]

Yes, but they aren't the same thing.

One is a subclass of the other. See here.

 

[Tiberius]

One is a subclass of the other. See here.

Only in a VERY limited number of cases.

a plant can be beautiful without being symmetrical. So can a building or a painting or a sunset.

And I'm sure a man will find his wife more beautiful than a woman he doesn't know, even if she is more symmetrical.

And what about music? Symmetry doesn't come into that at all!

Also, there are many symmetrical things that are quite ugly.

 

[Tiberius]

Temperature is just a word we came up with to describe how "hot" or "cold" something is. It describes the movement of molecules in the object we are trying to analyze. Yes, under the definition I gave earlier, temperature does not exist.

But what we measure with temperature is something concrete in the real world. We can verify it.

So you need evidence to show that something exists? Can you show me that the international space station exists?

Yes. Photos of it, launch records, accounts from the people who have been there. Heck, at the right time, you can look up and see it directly for yourself!

 

[Tiberius]

Neither was your comment (objective beauty) the same as mine, which makes your comment mere obfuscation.

But since we are talking about objective truths, it would be meaningless to discuss subjective beauty, wouldn't it? Subjective beauty cannot be defined. It is different for everyone.

 

[seeking Christ]

But since we are talking about objective truths, it would be meaningless to discuss subjective beauty, wouldn't it?

We weren't talking about objective truths; the discussion was spiritual facility, which is necessary to perceive God's existence. The very term "third eye blind" makes the case that this is indeed NOT universal across our species, and therefore by some measure the word "objective" may not be applicable.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT


This thread is closed. The problem starts one page one.

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