To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!

[Frogster]

This I believe . I want to follow the law because I am saved . God loves me and I love Him , and I want to please Him because I'm grateful .

The Torah (the law) is not bad , they are instructions and guidelines . I want to please God . It brings joy to my heart to think about following God's instructions . People fight against them so much ... apostasy ?


In a nutshell :

John 14:15
If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

If we are saved we love God ... evidence of loving God is keeping His commandments . It's not hard to see this at all . Works are a natural RESULT of salvation , NOT a requirement . This is how faith and works go hand in hand .

do we have to keep the torah food ordinances, which make us sinners if we eat catfish, shrimp, pork, lobster, crab, etc?

ohhhh.. but we gotta keep temple tithing ordinces to a temple that s not here?!

 

[Faulty]

do we have to keep the torah food ordinances, which make us sinners if we eat catfish, shrimp, pork, lobster, crab, etc?

ohhhh.. but we gotta keep temple tithing ordinces to a temple that s not here?!

We have had a change in the Law. Most don't realize it.

Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.
Heb 7:11-12
​

 

[Ashlantal]

red above...


eph 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace

Jesus abolished the laws and traditions of men . The Jews at that time weren't even following God , they made their own laws . That's what was abolished .

 

[DMW]

Theres still time to repent and catch up your tithes for the year!

 

[Frogster]

We have had a change in the Law. Most don't realize it.

Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.
Heb 7:11-12
​

so...so..true, and wholeheartedly agreed.

 

[Frogster]

Jesus abolished the laws and traditions of men . The Jews at that time weren't even following God , they made their own laws . That's what was abolished .

problem is, eph 2:15 was not about oral law. were we dead in oral law transgressions in the previous text, reconciled TO GOD, by the abolishment of oral law in 2:16, dead in oral law sins and trespasses?

hmmmm..u may want to study into the context there. besides, the law was one legal code, the book of the law, numerous citations available, if u so desire.

 

[Faulty]

Jesus abolished the laws and traditions of men . The Jews at that time weren't even following God , they made their own laws . That's what was abolished .

Galatians as a whole refutes this.

 

[Frogster]

Galatians as a whole refutes this.

 

[GaryArnold]

We have had a change in the Law. Most don't realize it.

Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.
Heb 7:11-12
​

Now FIND that change in the scriptures. Do you find anywhere in the scriptures where tithing changed from crops and animals to money? Do you find anywhere in the scriptures where tithing changed from a tenth of assets to a tenth of income? OR, do you just make up the new law yourself?

What Paul taught contradicts tithing. Giving from the heart, according to your means, contradicts a flat ten percent from everyone.

Ever think about actually studying your Bible?

 

[whitebeaches]

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Mod Hat Off​

 

[Faulty]

Now FIND that change in the scriptures. Do you find anywhere in the scriptures where tithing changed from crops and animals to money? Do you find anywhere in the scriptures where tithing changed from a tenth of assets to a tenth of income? OR, do you just make up the new law yourself?

What Paul taught contradicts tithing. Giving from the heart, according to your means, contradicts a flat ten percent from everyone.

Ever think about actually studying your Bible?

A bit defensive aren't we? If you read the context ofthe passage I cited, you might have some answers. The writer of Hebrews does explain what he's talking about.

I am a little confused on your response, as it has nothing to do with anything I said in any way whatsoever. Hope your day has been a bit better since then.

 

[GaryArnold]

I am a little confused on your response, as it has nothing to do with anything I said in any way whatsoever. Hope your day has been a bit better since then.

That's because the moderator must have deleted my last comment which I stated I may have misunderstood you, and that I had a senior moment.

My apologies.

 

[joseph10]

How poor is the soul that does not think he has a responsibility to support the Gospel of Jesus Christ be which God has freely given him life.
I am really not interested in your thinking on the subject of tithing or Offerings. I am interested in the instruction of the Word of God. That book called the bible is given for the instruction of the people of God. Salvation is of the Jews.

Let today be a day of Growth, let wisdom and understanding overtake you. To him whom does Good, will he not receive Good? Sowing and reaping are the eternal law of this earth established from the beginning.
He whom does not sow likewise shall not reap. For in disobedience and unbelief he does not sow. And in disobedience and unbelief he does not reap. Let not the heart be the guide for the heart also is fill of lies and wickedness. Lean not unto your own understanding. For the Lord bears witness of all weather of good or evil. Therefore
hear and understand the ways of God. For God has bound himself to his word. And he shall not do other then he declares.
When you read the Old testament, Do you see that in Ruth that he whom takes care of the poor is blessed. Are you also not a redeemer of the poor in the nations.
Is a servant wiser then his master? Has not God said you have robbed me in tiths and offerings? Does not his word speak to all, Is not his word eternal.
Do you seek to be blessed while disobeying the commandments of Charity. God loves a joyful giver and a wise son. He whom gives from a right heart receives good from the Lord. But he whom gives in a wrong heart also is rewarded with strips from the same Lord.
Why do you think you can make a reply to God for his ways. Shall the Clay declare the master of the field is in error. For it is written foolish are those of this generation for they worship God with there lips but there heart is far from God.
Abraham a man of wisdom paid tiths are you greater then Aberham. Jesus also paid the first fruit price for each of you. Yet you cast off wisdom. God see all and Judges all.
When you do not support the church you are worthy of strips and to be case out as evil doers. For you have entered into what others paid for and you repay there kindness and love with wickedness and destain. Rotten to the core.
God does not bless the rebellion of his people. God makes the lump in your hand holy only after you bring your duty to him. The tith is a duty not a free will action at all. If God is not worthy of your tith. Then Money is your God. And God is not mocked.
Let that man know that God closes and God alone opens unto his people blessings.
Is it interesting that those with ears do not hear and they say this is his way. Yet Jesus declared he is the way, Jesus gave all in obidence yet you will not even pay your tiths. The kingdom of God is with in you. Yet how shall it be declared that Christ is king of that Kingdom that does not give. For the King of Kings gives. And he whom is ruled by Christ gives to all.
Have you not seen all the glory of Gods church across the whole of the earth and do you not know these are the works of his hands. Until heaven and earth pass away seed time and harvest time. Yet you declare God does not want us to sow into his kingdom and yet even Christ in the feeding of the 5000 started with seed. For a harvest can only come from the seed. Before the blessing comes the blessor must have something to bless.
You fatten your bellies by eating your tith. Then you say give us more that we may spend it on our desires. He resist the proud. Humble youselfs and support the minstries of God. He whom supports the masters house is wise and recevies Good From the hand of the Master. But he Master hand is shut to the disobidence and the pridefulled of his hosue. Even when youn labor in the nation in the industry of man has God not provided the body you use and the strength to do the labor. Yet you rob him in tiths and in thanksgivings and then call his minsters evil whom serve the Lord as his calling. Rebellion into Even God election.
Let his hand correct you each and her his correction fall upon you in a hour that you may gain wsidom and understand whom is in charge all all things. All blessins and all cursings. Let it be unto you have you have said yet let his truth overtake you in you struggle of obidence.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

We should talk to the Lord and listen!!

Exactly. It's for that very reason why I question people who declare the Lord told them something that contradicts scripture.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Look at the poll . The majority of people agree that we should give 10% .

What does a forum poll prove in relation to scripture? Are you saying that your beliefs are based upon what others say in polls? Please elaborate.

And Jesus came to fulfill the law not abolish it .

What do you suppose that poll is based upon?

Besides, we should want to help our church out and give to God . I sure do . Why are people so against this ?

Nobody said people should not support their communal facility and the professional staffing. The issue is the priorities in giving. Supporting a facility primarily before meeting the needs of fellow believers is a reversal of biblical priorities in giving. Religionists justify the reversal based upon antiquity of belief and practice, irregardless of what scripture says.

Burnt sacrifices were use to atone for sin . Jesus has already paid the penalty for everyone's sin . Why would you even bring up burnt sacrifices like we still need them ... ?

Because of the belief, which mostly encouraged that poll, that Jesus' statements about the tithe are allegedly supportive of that part of the Law being a perpetual, central tenet of the Church to this very day, and that the fulfillment of that alleged teaching translates into believers handing their primary giving over to religious church organizations.

Compounding that error is the idea that handing one's primary, largest portion giving over to the church organization of their choice is synonymous with giving to God.

Preachers for centuries have considered themselves qualified to pick and choose from the Law what they think should continue in the age of grace. It makes no difference to them scripture offers no support for such a teaching, but the phenomenon of blind acceptance on the basis of repetition plays out even in that arena.

If you hand over the largest portion of your giving to most any church organization, you're guilty of robbing God, not giving to Him.

Nowhere does scripture justify supporting a dead building before seeing to the needs of fellow believers and the needy in one's community.

If you believe the needs of a dead building should come first, then please demonstrate such from scripture, because that's exactly what you're defending in relation to most institutional church organizations you call "the church."

THE Church is people, not man-made church organizations. THE Church populates SOME of the pews and chairs of church organizations, but no unbeliever populates a place in THE Church, even though they do fill spots in pews and chairs of what you call "the church."

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

The Torah (the law) is not bad , they are instructions and guidelines . I want to please God . It brings joy to my heart to think about following God's instructions . People fight against them so much ... apostasy ?


In a nutshell :

John 14:15
If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Confusing ceremonial Law with moral Law is an error of most legalistic religionists.

If we are saved we love God ... evidence of loving God is keeping His commandments . It's not hard to see this at all . Works are a natural RESULT of salvation , NOT a requirement . This is how faith and works go hand in hand .

Yes, but twisting the word of God to one's own religious and legalistic ends is not a love of Christ Jesus.

The temple lost its place as the dwelling place of God, which was central to the ONE priesthood assigned the task of collecting the tithes.

Dare try to show me where scripture assigns "pastors" as the replacement for the Levitical priesthood, and I'll show you where every believer is a royal priest of the Most High. You've got no foundation.

Generally speaking, it seems to make no difference to legalistic religionists that the tithe never had anything to do with the wages of wage earners, but as before, antiquity of false teaching enjoys the central place of acceptance in the evil hearts of those who would dare try to enslave others in the same chains of bondage as themselves.

BTW

 

[Faulty]

That's because the moderator must have deleted my last comment which I stated I may have misunderstood you, and that I had a senior moment.

My apologies.

It's all good.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Tithing to religious institutions has many deep roots in numerous falsehoods.

It was said several pages back that labeling as "hirelings" those hired to function in the place of other believers is "name calling."

Blessedly, I have scripture on my side to the contrary.

He who is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catches them, and scatters the sheep. The hireling flees, because he is an hireling, and cares not for the sheep (John 10:12-13).


Noah Webster defined long ago “hireling” as “one who is hired, or who serves for wages.” Truly, religious hirelings are the respected order of the day, conrtary to biblical examples.


As believers, we are to regard our “secular” employment as divine – “as unto the Lord” (Ephesians 6:5‑8; Colossians 3:22‑24; Titus 2:9-10). Thus, each believer’s vocation is indeed a high calling of God (Ephesians 4:1). As William Carey (1761-1834) would say, “My business is preaching the gospel, and I cobble shoes to pay my expenses.”


Often the man who teaches God’s Word is disdained, as if he were not genuine, if he is not religiously “salaried.” It is amazing how the tables have turned.


Paul was not for “hire;” rather, he was the bond-slave of Jesus Christ, making his living as a humble laborer – a “tentmaker” (Acts 18:1‑3).

This compounds the condemnation upon the many errors surrounding the belief we should hand over a "tithe" to man-made church organizations.

BTW

 

[Frogster]

bottom line, it has been handily proven, that the tithing docrtrine is wrong.

 

[Ashlantal]

I'm just not off the fact that BeforeThereWas would say I have an evil heart for promoting tithing when I had only the best intentions in mind ...