Messianic Judaism?

[Yahudim]

Bub-bye...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Theology is intended to be a symphony, a harmonious and perfectly tuned set of instruments all in unison each part contributing to the whole. This is why I encourage the Messianic movement to work harder at its theology..

Thankfully, even when/if things seem to be a work in progress, it is the case that development does occur. Both in development of relatiobship between traditional Churches and Messianic Fellowships/Synagouges and seeing the ways both sides aid one another in growth as they both look to Christ - who is Lord over both, quite Real and the Promised Messiah sent to save/reconcille all in Him.

 

[Yusuphhai]

Shalom, MJ is an opinion. If you agree with some of it you need not convert ,or join a new organization, or leave the previous organization. In this forum general Christian can be understood.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Even those of use who put in a little more effort to inform and discuss than that can still take this all with a grain of salt.[/quote

Sadly, it does seem that the inablity to disagree agreeably can lead to a lot of actions that lack in wisdom. For it's easier to take yourself more seriously than you're really worth - and it is always interesting how much fuss can get raised by others whenever a difference of thought occurs and it is either challenged or others don't agree and there is attempt to claim those disagreeing are not concerned about Jewish culture.....as was noted earlier on multiple points.

Some of it is humorous to a degree due to the fact that most of the people doing a lot of fussing often speak/act as if they're representing the "correct form of Messianic Judaism" even though they were already noted to be on the extremes of it/denounced on multiple levels - and thus, the reaction (if checked) is to try reducing what others say to something no one said and then trying to go against that. It's a defensive response that really doesn't address what was said and instead opts for an emotional reaction rather than a logical discussion of what is said. As others have noted, anytime there's a lack of ability to restrain oneself from essentially doing what happens in highschool when/if others cannot get their way and throw a tantrum (as still elsewhere due to folks failing to understand the extent of Messianic Judaism in its entirety and differing forms of real Jewish thought/lifestyle), it's a pity. But God is faithful...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Shalom, MJ is an opinion. If you agree with some of it you need not convert ,or join a new organization, or leave the previous organization. In this forum general Christian can be understood.

So good to hear from you, Yusuphhai!

 

[yonah_mishael]

Agreed. I tend to see MJism as very very protestant. Even where it divorces itself from protestantism it still has the modern evangelical protestant spirit guiding it. To me, because modern protestantism is so broad and can end up looking like just about anything the MJ movement just slots in nicely.

Excellent summary. I can certainly say that I see what you mean.

 

[visionary]

Excellent summary. I can certainly say that I see what you mean.

Not all things are bad and to accomplish the assignment that Yeshua gave, it will never be exclusive but reflect a inclusive attitude like Yeshua did. And there is nothing wrong with that. In order for Judaism to survive the last 2000 years, it had to shut the doors, batten down the hatches, and reveal as little as possible to the rest of the world. For this, we have a well preserved state from which to benefit from. We, as Messianic Judaism believers, do not have to reflect the same spirit or attitude, because we have a mission/commission, we have an example of the changes that are necessary through the life and words of Yeshua, and we are to reflect Him, not orthodox or any other form of Judaism exactly. We can however, be thankful, for our brethren's work, study, and lifestyle from which we can halacha that which closely reflects Yeshua, and even if it looks like it is evangelical by comparison, if done in Yeshua's loving spirit, God can use it to finish the work, we have been called to do.

 

[yonah_mishael]

By the way, I've just spent a little time reading through the posts of this thread – since the claim was made that they were full of misinformation and other abuses – and I have to say that I found the thread enjoyable. I don’t see what the problem was. The posts were welcoming and informative. Glad everyone contributed.

 

[yedida]

What exactly is it in his post that you're giving a "thumbs up"? Do you not think you were included in his hate-filled rant?

Possibly so - but it isn't hate-filled at all. I agree with him. This place isn't a Messianic Judaism forum, rather it's become "The Call Yourself Whatever You Want, Do Whatever You Want in the Name of MJ Forum." It is sickening. One single person came in here with one simple question. Instead of getting an answer he could discuss with people, he got Baskin-Robbins 31 Flavors! Bah!

 

[yonah_mishael]

Possibly so - but it isn't hate-filled at all. I agree with him. This place isn't a Messianic Judaism forum, rather it's become "The Call Yourself Whatever You Want, Do Whatever You Want in the Name of MJ Forum." It is sickening. One single person came in here with one simple question. Instead of getting an answer he could discuss with people, he got Baskin-Robbins 31 Flavors! Bah!

The problem is, though, that this is exactly what Messianic Judaism is today. It is a hodge-podge of various ideas without real definition. One cannot truly say that “Messianics believe X” without excluding a large portion of the group. ContraMundum is right (as is Qnts) when he claims that a movement without definition is bound to result in confusion. As much as MJism is a “movement,” it has taken on the characteristics of chaotic growth. Who can really say what is “Messianic” and what is not today? Can you? Can visionary? Can Mishkan David? Who is the right position to say that all the other elements of the diverse groups are not truly of Messianic faith? The whole ball of wax still confuses me, and I’ve been interacting with you folks for a couple of years!

 

[ContraMundum]

Possibly so - but it isn't hate-filled at all. I agree with him. This place isn't a Messianic Judaism forum, rather it's become "The Call Yourself Whatever You Want, Do Whatever You Want in the Name of MJ Forum." It is sickening. One single person came in here with one simple question. Instead of getting an answer he could discuss with people, he got Baskin-Robbins 31 Flavors! Bah!

This forum has always been like this!

The problem is, though, that this is exactly what Messianic Judaism is today. It is a hodge-podge of various ideas without real definition. One cannot truly say that “Messianics believe X” without excluding a large portion of the group. ContraMundum is right (as is Qnts) when he claims that a movement without definition is bound to result in confusion. As much as MJism is a “movement,” it has taken on the characteristics of chaotic growth. Who can really say what is “Messianic” and what is not today? Can you? Can visionary? Can Mishkan David? Who is the right position to say that all the other elements of the diverse groups are not truly of Messianic faith? The whole ball of wax still confuses me, and I’ve been interacting with you folks for a couple of years!

Nailed it.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

This forum has always been like this!

Indeed. Something that other Messianic Jew have noted for years - some of them still present while others have left. There have always been diverse views within Messianic Judaism - from the traditional stances to the controversial and those on the far ends/fringes trying to make themselves the image of the movement and do what the founders of Modern MJism never advocated.

Sociologically, it is interesting to see what tends to happen in response when people become accustomed to saying what they feel/finding agreement amongst one another - specifically if/when the exposure they have is already limited. When you have other factors arise and others come in that do not go with the viewpoint they're accustomed to - even though it is legitimate/historical - the response is either healthy examination/dialouge ..or unhealthy reaction/aggression. There've been other Messianic Jews (as well as Gentiles ) on the board who got hounded for an extensive myriad of things based solely on the fact that what they did was not within the realm of experience others had - and yet there was never a willingness to really deal contexually with what others actually live out...and it's easier to say "Well, that's just not MESSIANIC!!" or "They're just not observant like we are!!!" than it is to really deal with issues This is compounded by the issue that others can experience things universally such as persecution from other groups hating Messianic Judaism - and the response is to fight against that so as to maintain a unique identity - but in the process, other things are done which can be damaging. Specifically, others not lining up with what others accept in their experience are automatically deem to be an issue - much like Autoimmune diseases, which arises from an inappropriate immune response of the body against substances and tissues normally present in the body ( In other words, the immune system mistakes some part of the body as a pathogen and attacks its own cells ).

At one time, one form of thought was in dominance due to whatever a majority group adhered to - and later, when more exposure/development occurred, things switched - and the current line up that used to be considered a minority view becomes more accepted - with awarenss leading to adaptation....whereas the previous advocates of certain views may end up fighting against diverse thought due to how it really threatens their own position of dominance more so than being inconsistent with what actually occurs in the camp they claim to belong to.


What has been the case is that many people can't handle disagreement - and haven't really been trained how to do so, or to disagree agreeably. They don't really prefer it when they don't have their view as the ONLY one promoted - or a view that goes unchallenged when it is not truly accurate or in line with the place they reside in (and in the case of the forum, it's generally an issue folks have had with anything supported by CF/the Host site when it comes to Christianity and believers within it). Rather than working within whatever system they're in and honoring what was asked, the preference is to make a larger system adapt to what they think all things should be - and essentially deem anyone not willing to submit to their dominant view as a threat.

Other Messianics for years have that others were trying to push people out of MJism who actually lined up with the ways CF saw it and how other Mainstream Messianic Jewish organizations saw things ..the same groups (from Dan Juster to Michael Brown and others) who noted some of the things occurring in the name of MJism being more so Hebraic Roots/other teachings that Jews didn't agree to but Gentiles wanted. It is why others have often noted that there's not a lot of consistency when others fuss on certain issues. If it's only them talking/in dominance, then it's a matter of it being appropiate Messianic Judaism..and in the process of discussing other Messianic Jewish fellowships/addressing how much of what occurs in the name of it was never what Jewish people believed, it's claimed in reaction that it was not the "Messianic answer." Really, it is simply the response of not getting one's way and claiming it's the way all were meant to take...and that's something people need to mature in as other Messianic Jews have noted. Anything less than that is simply throwing fits over not nothing - and it's unbecoming.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Nailed it.

Agreed

If you will agree to argue with reason, then I will agree to wipe you up off the floor when I'm done with you. You can find my website as "The Hebrew Cafe" on Google. It should be the first link, with the subdirectory called /forum.

Nice site

 

[ContraMundum]

OK Talmidim, let me make some honest observations too:

I have recently observed a group of people in this very 'specific' type of forum that seems to think;

• disinformation is information,
• that context is optional,
• that too much information is the proper response to specific inquiries,
• that blurring the lines defines a topic and
• that revising history is an acceptable tactic in the greater strategy of the universal dodge, i.e., Don't argue the most foundational point because 'we are all brothers' and 'why can't we all just all get along'.

• 
  
  
  I see that too- but I count much of what you say in that category. This is the primary difference between us: I accept much of accepted history, which you regard as revision- but I say you cannot actually prove your objections. The impasse starts there.
  
  
  

  Sorry, but that smacks of the 'Many paths, one God' BS.

  
  A bit of a stretch...
  
  
  

  It seems to me that the New SOP (very cool stuff BTW) has caused those that once discounted or outright opposed Torah observance and the Hebraic context of the scriptures to now simply denigrate Messianic Judaism in general. I don't need to say any names. Everyone that frequents this place knows who I am talking about simply by a description of their actions. So this missive in no way should be considered, "uninformed pontifications (read:express opinions or judgments in a dogmatic way) about personalities". It is instead the informed analysis of personal behavior of certain anonymous individuals. If my criticism of mis-characterizations and exposure of violations of the SOP offend, that sounds more like a self-indictment than a pontification. No L'shon Hara. Just simple observations offered in fellowship.

  
  Well, that is l'shon hara, despite the disclaimer. Take it up with your Creator.
  
  Can you not accept the idea that perhaps you may be wrong about something? I admire your strong opinion, but I think you could be a better listener to really understand where others are coming from, and then perhaps you would be less eager to make it personal.
  
  

  There are those here that would have the uninitiated seeker believe that Messianic Judaism sprang from the loins of Christianity; that Orthodoxy or Catholicism or Protestantism is basically the same thing as Messianic Judaism. But history clearly shows that Christianity sprang from Messianic Judaism.

  
  This is an unecessary position to take. Primitive Messianic Judaism most likely developed into Christianity. At a certain juncture in history (say around the time of Chrysostom) the Jewish practices were spoken against and brought into disuse, but the threads have remained to this day. However, the modern day Messianic Movement is clearly historically and theologically from Protestantism and has adopted a number of very unJewish fundamentalist protestant notions- most obviously a rejection of tradition as both an interpretive authority and a norm for praxis. While the movement is attempting to revive early NT Christian (Heb = Messianic) practice and belief it has adopted the Protestant prolegomena which forms and informs it. Maybe that's the right path, too. Time will tell.
  
  So, I don't think this is an either/or problem. It's both/and. Messianic Judaism developed into Christianity. Modern MJism at its radical end is an attempt to repristinate the Church (a very Protestant idea which every movement claims to aim for) while at the more moderate end it seeks to return to Jewish people a place within the Church. Your position is clearly the former, and mine the latter.
  
  

  Christianity was a political tool devised to unify and control the people of the Empire, fashioned and manipulated by Roman politicians from the ashes of burned Torah scrolls and Jewish homes; from the rituals of paganism and idol worship and from the murdered carcasses of the first Torah observant Messianics and their brethren, the children of Israel. I am not denigrating Christianity here. Rather I indict the politicians of ancient Rome.

  
  I'm almost certain that this is another point one cannot really prove without resorting to radical interpretations of history. I hope you are ok with me having that opinion.
  
  

  I have returned to find the same wolves in Messianic icons (clothing). Now they are suddenly Torah observant (as if). There are the same people without the Messianic icon still teaching Messianic Judaism. There are those pretend Messianics still trying to steer newbies away, still trying to overwhelm them with reams and reams of disinformation and links to anti-Torah Christian materials and sources or trying to dilute the teachings of Torah and the Messiah with a little 'somewhere on the path' slight of hand. Figuratively, they throw mud in in your face, spit in your eye and claim it's so you can see. Not naming any names mind you.

  
  You don't have to name the names to spread the libel. I wouldn't be as confident as you in judging the motives of others, or condemning people on a journey in their faith. Also, I really don't think anyone can judge anyone else's Torah observance, especially as the path of observance is not like assembing a plastic model Spitfire where one follows the instructions and it will be finished in a day. It's complex and its personal. There are many, many expressions and opinions, not to mention halacha and minhagim.
  
  

  I find people saying that Messianic Judaism is deficit in it's theology or that claim it is a breakaway form of Christianity or a movement or an opinion or anything save what it is: An earnest attempt to follow in The Way of the 1st century adherents to the Messiah Y'shua and the covenant of Israel, Torah.

  
  I would agree with that. But so would a person in the Catholic Church walking the Vatican way. It's subjective as to what that statement means.
  
  

  I'm not angry, Contra. I am just sick at heart.

  
  I accept it. Perhaps we are not that different after all. I often feel desparing at some of things here as well...then I realize- it's just the internet. I know you hate that expression, but it will help your heart be released of any sickness. I hope to one day acheive my goal of no longer worrying about the Body of Messiah. It's not mine to worry about. It's His. That is what I mean by "it's only the internet".
  
  

  Despite all the changes, nothing has changed. But sometimes a change in perspective is everything. Speaking of, it isn't the 'internet forum' like you said. It's 'Messianic Judaism' like I said. Are you familiar with the tactic of mis-characterization or misdirection?

  
  Sure, but I wasn't employing such a tactic. I do not really think an internet forum is an authority to represent anything, let alone MJism. It's a collection of opinions about topics. That's all. Authoritative position statements are best found in the organizations that stand by them and propagate them- eg. an MJ denomination in this case.
  
  

  You think I should just relax. OK, look at my mood, "Relaxed"! Let's move on to lighter fare, OK? OK!

  
  Agreed.
  
  

  Have you ever noticed that good advice always sound like good advice, no matter to whom it is addressed. So let's try a little experiment and see how good advice sounds. You gave me some good advice, right? You wrote;OK, let's switch it up, just for fun, OK? If we substitute the topic (Messianic Judaism) to the appropriate concern of the individual involved and we substitute the person (with anyone except me), it will still sound like good advice, right? But we should choose people that everyone should know, right? OK, let try it!

  
  Sure.
  
  

  Hey Rabbi! Sounds like you really just don't like differing opinions. Pity you have to make uninformed pontifications about personalities too. You used to be above that. Perhaps you are taking this 'Torah Observance thing' a little too seriously. We all make that mistake from time to time. Just relax. Try it. I vote to bring back the old, cool headed and informative Rabbi Y'shua.
  
  I tried this again, substituting Adolf Hitler, Ghandi, Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln or Sitting Bull for me and 'Messianic Judaism' with their most relevant concerns. It was a hoot! I laughed so hard I almost had to change my tighty-whities! You should try it! Might turn it into a board game for the reeeeally bored! Thanks for the dead-pan comedy relief. OK, trick question: So does misdirection through banality make it a 'duck the bill' platitude?

  

  
  Perhaps I don't have your sense of humour...but I didn't really find that funny, mostly because my comments were not intended to force you to change either your opinion or your lifestyle- just to bring perspective so no one has a heart attack over reading something in the internet.
  
  

  I am sure you didn't mean to personalize our discussion by accusing me of making 'uninformed pontifications about personalities' or by saying that I 'really just don't like differing opinions'.

  
  My opinion was based merely on my observations- as yours are. Shouldn't bother either of us, right? The fact is that I do think you made a judgment that was incorrect. Indulge me for my opinion, ok?

 

[visionary]

OK Talmidim, let me make some honest observations too:
I see that too- but I count much of what you say in that category. This is the primary difference between us: I accept much of accepted history, which you regard as revision- but I say you cannot actually prove your objections. The impasse starts there.
A bit of a stretch...
Well, that is l'shon hara, despite the disclaimer. Take it up with your Creator.
Can you not accept the idea that perhaps you may be wrong about something? I admire your strong opinion, but I think you could be a better listener to really understand where others are coming from, and then perhaps you would be less eager to make it personal.
This is an unecessary position to take. Primitive Messianic Judaism most likely developed into Christianity. At a certain juncture in history (say around the time of Chrysostom) the Jewish practices were spoken against and brought into disuse, but the threads have remained to this day. However, the modern day Messianic Movement is clearly historically and theologically from Protestantism and has adopted a number of very unJewish fundamentalist protestant notions- most obviously a rejection of tradition as both an interpretive authority and a norm for praxis. While the movement is attempting to revive early NT Christian (Heb = Messianic) practice and belief it has adopted the Protestant prolegomena which forms and informs it. Maybe that's the right path, too. Time will tell.
So, I don't think this is an either/or problem. It's both/and. Messianic Judaism developed into Christianity. Modern MJism at its radical end is an attempt to repristinate the Church (a very Protestant idea which every movement claims to aim for) while at the more moderate end it seeks to return to Jewish people a place within the Church. Your position is clearly the former, and mine the latter.
I'm almost certain that this is another point one cannot really prove without resorting to radical interpretations of history. I hope you are ok with me having that opinion.
You don't have to name the names to spread the libel. I wouldn't be as confident as you in judging the motives of others, or condemning people on a journey in their faith. Also, I really don't think anyone can judge anyone else's Torah observance, especially as the path of observance is not like assembing a plastic model Spitfire where one follows the instructions and it will be finished in a day. It's complex and its personal. There are many, many expressions and opinions, not to mention halacha and minhagim.
I would agree with that. But so would a person in the Catholic Church walking the Vatican way. It's subjective as to what that statement means.
I accept it. Perhaps we are not that different after all. I often feel desparing at some of things here as well...then I realize- it's just the internet. I know you hate that expression, but it will help your heart be released of any sickness. I hope to one day acheive my goal of no longer worrying about the Body of Messiah. It's not mine to worry about. It's His. That is what I mean by "it's only the internet".
Sure, but I wasn't employing such a tactic. I do not really think an internet forum is an authority to represent anything, let alone MJism. It's a collection of opinions about topics. That's all. Authoritative position statements are best found in the organizations that stand by them and propagate them- eg. an MJ denomination in this case.
Agreed.
Sure.
Perhaps I don't have your sense of humour...but I didn't really find that funny, mostly because my comments were not intended to force you to change either your opinion or your lifestyle- just to bring perspective so no one has a heart attack over reading something in the internet.
My opinion was based merely on my observations- as yours are. Shouldn't bother either of us, right? The fact is that I do think you made a judgment that was incorrect. Indulge me for my opinion, ok?

Your tracking of history isn't on the gore end of persecution, nor on those who continued closer in line with Judaism with Yeshua leading through out history which I have noted in Messianic History Because the current movement got its greatest push from Baptists doesn't mean that it didn't soon developed back to the spirit of Yeshua, back to His Kingdom, and the early believers, much to amazement of the Baptist organizations who lost control of it as it took a life of its own.

 

[Yahudim]

You call that honest? Good to know.

You are wrong Contra, so lets get a few things straight. If I say that there are some people in my city that are murderers, robbers and thieves but do not name them, that is not l'ashon hara, even if other people know who they are. If I say, "You know who they are", it is still not l'ashon hara.

Even if I do call someone out by name, it is still not l'ashon hara if it is done in order to correct an unjust or negative situation, like to make someone accountable for an injustice or a crime. But you already know that, so I am forced to question your motives for accusing me of l'ashon hara.

If you however, addressing me by name, accuse me of negative characteristics or behaviors; if you question my emotional state or my ability to deliver information accurately with no other purpose than to paint me in a negative light, that is l'ashon hara and a direct violation of this forums SOP.

You seem to think that this forum is representative of Messianic Judaism and that Messianic Judaism is a chaotic and all-inclusive 'movement', essentially no different that Christianity in form or doctrine. Well the overwhelming majority of the followers of Messianic Judaism that voted in this forum say otherwise. We have a new SOP emphasizing Torah observance that has moved us away from what you teach.

UNFORTUNATELY, some here don't seem to publically recognize the difference between Torah observance and standard Christian practices. It's not like you don't know the difference. I'm pretty sure everyone here know the difference. I just don't understand why some people get to flaunt the rules with no accountability. It's sickening.

We have members that claim to be Torah observant, but the extent of their observance is limited to partial observance of the Ten Commandments. They will tell you as much. They will teach this hypocrisy to seekers that come here because they see the sign that says Messianic Judaism on the outside. But they get inside and quickly find that Torah observant Messianic Judaism can be nothing more than Christianity in a Tallit - or even without the Tallit, as long as the teacher and student use the magical phrases, 'I am at a different place on the path' and 'Torah observance means different things to different people'. What unmitigated hypocritical manure! Somewhere on the path should not include nowhere NEAR the path. Where is any attempt at accountability?

You say, "Primitive Messianic Judaism most likely developed into Christianity." I agree, but in the sense that foods 'developed' into genetically modified foods. Messianic Judaism developed into Christianity by force of arms. The ancient Romans were pretty good record keepers. They taxed Torah observance. Then the made laws against it. You don't enact drug laws unless significant numbers of people are taking drugs. And you don't enact laws against Torah observance unless significant numbers of people are observing Torah. Duh!

So how is it that you, with your icon, gets to teach anyone in this forum what Messianic Judaism means? Oh! That's right! Because you can! Besides, if you get called down, all you have to do is agree with the 'Messianics' that claim it's just Christianity anyway. You know who I mean. The ones that teach that keeping the Ten Commandments is Torah observance, even if your Sabbath is on Sunday. How is this not a lie?

You think I should calm down. Well of course you do. What a perfect position for you to take. You get to help destroy something that you don't agree with and means absolutely nothing to you. I, on the other hand, get to do what? Sit back and shut up? Of course you want me to calm down. You are a Hebrew Christian with strong leanings toward Eastern Orthodoxy where Torah observance is not only not required, it's considered heresy.

They say that Satan know more about scripture than any man. Messianic Judaism, being all-inclusive, chaotic, confused and all; perhaps we should invite him, right? After all, he's the king of chaos and the author of confusion. Seems like a good fit, right? And since he is also on a different point in his path too, he can claim a Torah observant Messianic Judaism icon too! Wouldn't that be just swell?

Contra, this is not 'just the internet' to me. Nor is it a joke. What you meant to say was that this Messianic Judaism forum is just the internet TO YOU. That this is nothing serious TO YOU. But we know that isn't true either. You and your allies say one thing, but your actions say another. You all teach the same thing. Everything is OK. Messianic Judaism is no different than Christianity. It seems you have an agenda. I wonder what that could be?

You may ask, 'How do you know what being Torah observant is? ' Well I know the difference between Torah observance in Messianic Judaism and the views of mainstream Christianity toward 'the Law'. So do you. So does everyone else. What I am witnessing in this forum is not very encouraging - or very honest.

Someone called my words a hate filled rant. They are right. I hate this type of obfuscation and sophistry. It certainly isn't what the Messianics in this forum voted for. It certainly isn't what we got. And look at what we got. More of the same.

Shame on you. Shame on you because you know better and support the farce anyway. Shame on everyone that contends that the observations of mainstream Christianity and that of Torah observant Messianic Judaism are the same. Shame on everyone that claims that the observation of the Ten Commandments is the same as Torah observance of a Messianic.

The Christian and Messianic Torah observance is not just being at different places on the path. For one it is an end in itself. For the other it is only the beginning. Shame on every member that does not know that or espouse that. Shame on every moderator that does not enforce that. Shame on everyone that know the difference and does not speak up when we see members claiming one thing in regard to Torah observance and teaching or doing another.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Are you sure this isn’t a joke? You’re sure making me giggle… LOL

 

[Yahudim]

Considering the source, I will take that as an endorsement.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Considering the source, I will take that as an endorsement.

Yeah, considering the source. Very adult of you.

 

[Yahudim]

Thank you.