Messianic Judaism?

[DRobert]

I'm in the dark. Can someone provide a history on this faith and how it relates to ancient christianity. Also, how do Gentiles follow this religion and do I need to follow The Law as a gentile if I join? I mean, what do you guys believe and follow and do other than believing that Jesus is your Lord and Savior? How do you view salvation in Jesus, if you do...believe.



I don't know anything

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'm in the dark. Can someone provide a history on this faith and how it relates to ancient christianity. Also, how do Gentiles follow this religion and do I need to follow The Law as a gentile if I join? I mean, what do you guys believe and follow and do other than believing that Jesus is your Lord and Savior? How do you view salvation in Jesus, if you do...believe.



I don't know anything

Although I have some thoughts I could share on the issue and have no issue sharing them later (as I'm certain others will share their own), I would like to know what your specific purpose is in asking the questions to begin with. I ask due to how you've asked similar questions in other places - such as threads like Some questions (where you talked on considering Orthodxy and also having some personal issues you struggle with) and Question on Mary for Baptists amongst others. Are you asking because one wants to seriously considering joining onto the camp, or are you asking simply for the sake of asking? Or are you asking for the sake of discussion and your own personal learning?

Additionally, on your questions, we have a place where visitors are asked to investigate for the questions you brought up before getting involved - as seen in Sticky: Useful books / journals and web-sites that relate to the Messianic Movement. Did you take time to review previous threads which addressed many of the questions you had BEFORE you brought up questions? Or was it a matter of jumping in/quickly bringing up questions? All of that makes a world of difference as it concerns answers/interpretation.

 

[DRobert]

I was asking here for the sake of asking---but I am examining different paths. I don't deny that I am leaning more towards Orthodoxy at this point. Messianic has always been appealing to me, though I am ignorant about what it teaches and believes at this point.

 

[aniello]

I'm in the dark. Can someone provide a history on this faith and how it relates to ancient christianity. Also, how do Gentiles follow this religion and do I need to follow The Law as a gentile if I join? I mean, what do you guys believe and follow and do other than believing that Jesus is your Lord and Savior? How do you view salvation in Jesus, if you do...believe.



I don't know anything

Welcome Robert.

Acts 2:41 we have 3000 souls being were added to the original group of Jesus believers. By the end of Acts 2 there are even more believers in Yeshua being added daily. In general, this earliest goup of Yeshua believers was called The Way, not christianity which at best is a come later 2nd string name.

Question is, what does come later christianity have that is true to the original Jerusalem based faith? Precious little?

 

[Steve Petersen]

There is no unified teaching in MJism. I would say that most of us would like to return to the praxis of the earliest believers, which is some form of Judaism. An Absolute Reformation, so to speak.

We would also agree that Jesus is the promised Messiah of Israel and that through him we have forgiveness of sin. He is the Torah of God in the flesh.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I was asking here for the sake of asking---but I am examining different paths. I don't deny that I am leaning more towards Orthodoxy at this point. Messianic has always been appealing to me, though I am ignorant about what it teaches and believes at this point.

Got ya. On the issue, there are many who are Jewish and yet involved in Orthodoxy. One of them is named Daughter of Ararat - who goes to an Oriential Orthodox fellowship and yet is also involved in Messianic circles. And many have noted the ways that the early believers had a very Jewish faith expressed within Christianity (Jewish Christianity, to be exact) - which was radically different from Gentile Christianity that later came to dominate it and try to push all aspects of it out (more here in #31).


There've been other discussions on the issue such as in threads like Jewishness of Ancient Church Tradition and #6 . For more, one can go to here to #25 , #66 #91 , #93 #111 , #112, and #147. Sadly, there are many others in differing camps that have often tried to make it out as if all things by the Fathers/early Christianity were automatically anti-semitic ..despite where there were Jewish fathers as well and many are not understood in the context they existed in when it came to living in an Empire already hostile toward Jewish people and many Jews having to go "undercover" ( more discussed on that here for example). I'm thankful for others who have sought to do so as well when not understanding the full context that the Early Church Fathers existed in....and other Jewish believers within the Church have often sought to note this--and for more, one can consider seeing Not My Church? | The Groom's Family and Jewish Christianity in apostolic times: A native Jewish Church..or investigating the following, from another Jewish believer who has done work both in the Church (Orthodox) and Messianic fellowships:

• Inauguratory| The Groom's Family
• Peoplehood I | The Groom's Family
• Peoplehood II |The Groom's Family
• Anti-Christianism? | The Groom's Family
• Heresy: Jewish and Pagan | The Groom's Family
• What The Other Jews Think | The Groom's Family
• Father Bernstein Finds the Jews | The Groom's Family
• Why Can't The Church Stay Jewish? | The Groom's Family
• A Brief History of Jewish Conversion | The Groom's Family
• The Groom's Family | A blog for all who love Jesus and the Jews
• Jews in the Family: A Conversation with Father Paul Schenck | The Groom's Family
• Standing Up To The Great Schism, The Great Divide, and the Great Divorce | The Groom's Family

If one talks on Christianity, there's the reality of how there's the accepted form of Christianity that was often defined by those who won in the Councils/Debates and decisions of the Church over the years and other forms of Christianity (often called "Proto-orthodox Christianity "when it comes to others noting those camps claiming "Christianity" and not accepted by the others who'd grow in prominence/overshadow them ). The term Proto-orthodox Christianity is a term, coined by New Testament scholar Bart D. Ehrman, used to describe the Early Christian movement which was the precursor of Christian Orthodoxy. In Ehrman's view, as said in his work entitled "The New Testament: A Historical Introduction" ( p. 7.) , he feels that this group, which became prominent by the end of the 3rd century

stifled its opposition, it claimed that its views had always been the majority position and that its rivals were, and always had been, ‘heretics,’ who willfully ‘chose’ to reject the ‘true belief’.
​

The extent to which proto-orthodox Christianity was linked to, and reliant upon, the earlisest Christian expression of the faith has been argued by Larry W. Hurtado. As he said best in his work entitled Lord Jesus Christ: Devotion to Jesus in Earliest Christianity.( p.495 ):

...to a remarkable extent early-second-century protoorthodox devotion to Jesus represents a concern to preserve, respect, promote, and develop what were by then becoming traditional expressions of belief and reverence, and that had originated in earlier years of the Christian movement. That is, proto-orthodox faith tended to affirm and develop devotional and confessional traditions... Arland Hultgren has shown that the roots of this appreciation of traditions of faith actually go back deeply and widely into first-century Christianity
​

Other scholars have often brought up the often ignored dynamic of how there were forms of Christianity that were in competition with one another. Pauline Christianity (as well as Johannine Christianity and the ways Jewish believers in their views) in competition with other camps claiming the name of Christ (including various aspects of Ebionite Christianity....more discussed here and here in #91 ,#156 and #157 ) and that eventually died out after losing prominence. Some of the same things occurring then are still occurring today..

More discussed at Jewish Christianity Reconsidered: Rethinking Ancient Groups and Texts -Kesher - A Journal of Messianic Judaism... and Johannine Perspectives on the Death of Jesus

 

[Qnts2]

I was asking here for the sake of asking---but I am examining different paths. I don't deny that I am leaning more towards Orthodoxy at this point. Messianic has always been appealing to me, though I am ignorant about what it teaches and believes at this point.

Unlike Orthodoxy, Messianic Judaism is not a denomination but instead is a movement.

Messianic Judaism started out as a movement of Jewish believers in Jesus, with the purpose of having a more Jewish atmosphere to gather and worship in, plus, most Jewish believers have unbelieving families, so Messianic Judaism is also an outreach into the Jewish community to share the truth the Jesus is the Messiah and savior, and the only way to salvation is thru faith in Jesus alone.

So Messianic Judaism agrees that Jesus/Yeshua in Hebrew, is the promised Messiah, and one must be born from above by faith alone, to receive salvation. Messianic Judaism believes that God has not abandoned Israel and that the Jewish people/Israel are by linage from Abrham, Isaac and Jacob, and God will gather the Jewish people back into the land and fulfill all promises given to the children of Israel.

Messianic Judaism welcomes Gentile members, and there is no requirement for Gentiles to keep the Mosaic law, although if a Gentile wishes to join in with Messianic Jews, there are some expectations. That Gentiles will worship on the Sabbath (Saturday) with us, and will celebrate the holy days from the Tenakh (Old Testament) with us as pointers and in memory of what the Messiah did for us.

 

[visionary]

On the historical aspect..this thread has a collection of believers who were living and breathing quite a few unique aspects of our faith throughout the centuries.... http://www.christianforums.com/t4145248/

 

[ananda]

Welcome, DRobert!

In my opinion, Messianic Judaism was the original "movement" which later on birthed mainstream Christianity. Many, including myself, would say that MJ teaches that one must trust and obey Messiah and YHWH, the Father, for salvation.

 

[ContraMundum]

Got ya. On the issue, there are many who are Jewish and yet involved in Orthodoxy. One of them is named Daughter of Ararat - who goes to an Oriential Orthodox fellowship and yet is also involved in Messianic circles. And many have noted the ways that the early believers had a very Jewish faith expressed within Christianity (Jewish Christianity, to be exact) - which was radically different from Gentile Christianity that later came to dominate it and try to push all aspects of it out (more here in #31).


There've been other discussions on the issue such as in threads like Jewishness of Ancient Church Tradition and #6 . For more, one can go to here to #25 , #66 #91 , #93 #111 , #112, and #147. Sadly, there are many others in differing camps that have often tried to make it out as if all things by the Fathers/early Christianity were automatically anti-semitic ..despite where there were Jewish fathers as well and many are not understood in the context they existed in when it came to living in an Empire already hostile toward Jewish people and many Jews having to go "undercover" ( more discussed on that here for example). I'm thankful for others who have sought to do so as well when not understanding the full context that the Early Church Fathers existed in....and other Jewish believers within the Church have often sought to note this--and for more, one can consider seeing Not My Church? | The Groom's Family and Jewish Christianity in apostolic times: A native Jewish Church..or investigating the following, from another Jewish believer who has done work both in the Church (Orthodox) and Messianic fellowships:

• Inauguratory| The Groom's Family
• Peoplehood I | The Groom's Family
• Peoplehood II |The Groom's Family
• Anti-Christianism? | The Groom's Family
• Heresy: Jewish and Pagan | The Groom's Family
• What The Other Jews Think | The Groom's Family
• Father Bernstein Finds the Jews | The Groom's Family
• Why Can't The Church Stay Jewish? | The Groom's Family
• A Brief History of Jewish Conversion | The Groom's Family
• The Groom's Family | A blog for all who love Jesus and the Jews
• Jews in the Family: A Conversation with Father Paul Schenck | The Groom's Family
• Standing Up To The Great Schism, The Great Divide, and the Great Divorce | The Groom's Family

If one talks on Christianity, there's the reality of how there's the accepted form of Christianity that was often defined by those who won in the Councils/Debates and decisions of the Church over the years and other forms of Christianity (often called "Proto-orthodox Christianity "when it comes to others noting those camps claiming "Christianity" and not accepted by the others who'd grow in prominence/overshadow them ). The term Proto-orthodox Christianity is a term, coined by New Testament scholar Bart D. Ehrman, used to describe the Early Christian movement which was the precursor of Christian Orthodoxy. In Ehrman's view, as said in his work entitled "The New Testament: A Historical Introduction" ( p. 7.) , he feels that this group, which became prominent by the end of the 3rd century

stifled its opposition, it claimed that its views had always been the majority position and that its rivals were, and always had been, ‘heretics,’ who willfully ‘chose’ to reject the ‘true belief’.
​

The extent to which proto-orthodox Christianity was linked to, and reliant upon, the earlisest Christian expression of the faith has been argued by Larry W. Hurtado. As he said best in his work entitled Lord Jesus Christ: Devotion to Jesus in Earliest Christianity.( p.495 ):

...to a remarkable extent early-second-century protoorthodox devotion to Jesus represents a concern to preserve, respect, promote, and develop what were by then becoming traditional expressions of belief and reverence, and that had originated in earlier years of the Christian movement. That is, proto-orthodox faith tended to affirm and develop devotional and confessional traditions... Arland Hultgren has shown that the roots of this appreciation of traditions of faith actually go back deeply and widely into first-century Christianity
​

Other scholars have often brought up the often ignored dynamic of how there were forms of Christianity that were in competition with one another. Pauline Christianity (as well as Johannine Christianity and the ways Jewish believers in their views) in competition with other camps claiming the name of Christ (including various aspects of Ebionite Christianity....more discussed here and here in #91 ,#156 and #157 ) and that eventually died out after losing prominence. Some of the same things occurring then are still occurring today..

More discussed at Jewish Christianity Reconsidered: Rethinking Ancient Groups and Texts -Kesher - A Journal of Messianic Judaism... and Johannine Perspectives on the Death of Jesus

Great post as usual. I honestly think that the autocephalous notion of church polity coupled with ancient Apostolic continuity means that if Jews could have a Jewish (Hebrew) rite within E/OO we would be set. I'd be there in a flash. I think in all honesty that it's a marriage made in Heaven, and probably best fits the true NT church mould. But, I realize most posters here do not share this vision and think that all rites are essentially the same (not at all!) so would not consider this a viable future option. To them I say read Fr. Bernstein. Really challenged me.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Great post as usual. I honestly think that the autocephalous notion of church polity coupled with ancient Apostolic continuity means that if Jews could have a Jewish (Hebrew) rite within E/OO we would be set. I'd be there in a flash. I think in all honesty that it's a marriage made in Heaven, and probably best fits the true NT church mould. But, I realize most posters here do not share this vision and think that all rites are essentially the same (not at all!) so would not consider this a viable future option. To them I say read Fr. Bernstein. Really challenged me.

Technically, the Jewish people do have a Jewish rite within the E/OO - specifically as it concerns Ethiopian Orthodoxy (since it has been deemed as the most Jewish/Judaic due to how they live things out and have done so for centuries). Ethiopians keep the Torah and I do love the Ethiopian Orthodoxy and the ways they're very connected with Jewish culture - even as it concerns most likely having the Ark of the Covenant

That said, over the years, I've come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter whether or not you share the same vision as others (as it concerns what you noted) since the reality is that Jewish believers from all backgrounds are encountering Messiah and seeing Yeshua and not all will think the same anyhow. Many tend to base anything with Messianic Judaism on the modern movement that started in the 60s/70s - and although much began there, it was never the sole definition of what it meant to be a Messianic Jewish believer, nor were all things that came out of it the only reflection of how Jewish believers lived out their heritage. Many are often unaware of what happened in antiquity anyhow and thus I don't put a lot of stock into disagreements when those things are ignored.


On what you noted, Fr.Bernstein is truly amazing and I so appreciate the work he has done with other Jews involved in differing parts of Christendom. His book "Surprised by Christ" is such a godsend

• "Surprised by Christ - The Illumined Heart - Ancient Faith Radio"
• "Flow of Consciousness: Surprised by Christ: My Journey from Orthodox Judaism to Orthodox Christianity ..." ( )

I was very thankful for much of what he noted when it came to Divine Liturgy and the ways it reflects the Temple era/Judaic heritage - as seen in Paul Antiochian Orthodox Church - The Divine Liturgy - Father James Bernstein .

Services
Sacred Space
Divine Liturgy

Fr. Bernstein a Disciple of Christ at St. Elijah
Fr. Bernstein Love and Salvation at St. Elijah ​

Others have shared similar thoughts. Fr Alexander Men is another to look into, alongside Anthony Bloom. Both were Jews who converted to Orthodoxy, and they both have growing veneration and calls for their sainthood. There is also a Bulgarian parish that you might wanna check out/email in Boston---if going online/looking up an article under the name of "Holy Resurrection Orthodox Church - Allston, MA | Home " where both priests, Fr Patrick Tischel and Fr Michael Kon, are Jews who've discussed issues similar to what has been discussed here. After talking to another Orthodox individual, I was recommended to find an excellent book showing ways in which Orthodoxoy reflected the era of Temple Worship and how early Jewish Christians would've been able to easily relate to the physical symbolism that often goes into Orthodox worship----but this read was excellent since a book such as this would be an important step in showing 1) that the Orthodox Church retains and values the memory of its Jewish heritage, and 2) that those of Jewish heritage have a respected voice within the Church. It's called "Orthodox Worship: A Living Continuity With the Temple, the Synagogue and the Early Church".

It's very beautiful - and there are others who've noted the same. In example, I'm reminded of the perspective of an interesting Jewish Orthodox Christian Priest..one who's both is both Orthodox and yet UnOrthodox at the same time due to where he may differ from others in certain things relating to the Jewish culture. I could definately relate, seeing how much of what he experienced is very akin to what I've seen with other Jewish believers (as said elsewhere before on the Desert Fathers). And there have been more concentrated efforts at ensuring that there are Jewish rites for others to look into....seeing how there are many Jewish individuals involved in Orthodox Churches and feeling that Messianic Jewish culture is best reflected there. For some good review, if interested, one of my sisters in CHrist (who's Jewish/Orthodox) has done some good reviews on the issue - as seen here:

• Why I Am a Zionist | The Groom's Family
• A Jewish-Arab Mission? | The Groom's Family
• P.S. Why I Am a Zionist | The Groom's Family
• Another Israeli Orthodox Church | The Groom's Family
• Support A Hebrew Priest in Jerusalem | The Groom's Family
• Jewish Identity I: The Zionists and The Millet | The Groom's Family

 

[ContraMundum]

Technically, the Jewish people do have a Jewish rite within the E/OO - specifically as it concerns Ethiopian Orthodoxy (since it has been deemed as the most Jewish/Judaic due to how they live things out and have done so for centuries). Ethiopians keep the Torah and I do love the Ethiopian Orthodoxy and the ways they're very connected with Jewish culture - even as it concerns most likely having the Ark of the Covenant

I understand what you are saying, but I was thinking of a Hebrew rite- eg. Hebrew being the language and culture. The doctrinal side would therefore be informed by that as well.

That said, over the years, I've come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter whether or not you share the same vision as others (as it concerns what you noted) since the reality is that Jewish believers from all backgrounds are encountering Messiah and seeing Yeshua and not all will think the same anyhow. Many tend to base anything with Messianic Judaism on the modern movement that started in the 60s/70s - and although much began there, it was never the sole definition of what it meant to be a Messianic Jewish believer, nor were all things that came out of it the only reflection of how Jewish believers lived out their heritage. Many are often unaware of what happened in antiquity anyhow and thus I don't put a lot of stock into disagreements when those things are ignored.

Agreed. I tend to see MJism as very very protestant. Even where it divorces itself from protestantism it still has the modern evangelical protestant spirit guiding it. To me, because modern protestantism is so broad and can end up looking like just about anything the MJ movement just slots in nicely.

On what you noted, Fr.Bernstein is truly amazing and I so appreciate the work he has done with other Jews involved in differing parts of Christendom. His book "Surprised by Christ" is such a godsend

• "Surprised by Christ - The Illumined Heart - Ancient Faith Radio"
• "Flow of Consciousness: Surprised by Christ: My Journey from Orthodox Judaism to Orthodox Christianity ..." ( )

I was very thankful for much of what he noted when it came to Divine Liturgy and the ways it reflects the Temple era/Judaic heritage - as seen in Paul Antiochian Orthodox Church - The Divine Liturgy - Father James Bernstein .

Services
Sacred Space
Divine Liturgy

Fr. Bernstein a Disciple of Christ at St. Elijah
Fr. Bernstein Love and Salvation at St. Elijah ​

Others have shared similar thoughts. Fr Alexander Men is another to look into, alongside Anthony Bloom. Both were Jews who converted to Orthodoxy, and they both have growing veneration and calls for their sainthood. There is also a Bulgarian parish that you might wanna check out/email in Boston---if going online/looking up an article under the name of "Holy Resurrection Orthodox Church - Allston, MA | Home " where both priests, Fr Patrick Tischel and Fr Michael Kon, are Jews who've discussed issues similar to what has been discussed here. After talking to another Orthodox individual, I was recommended to find an excellent book showing ways in which Orthodoxoy reflected the era of Temple Worship and how early Jewish Christians would've been able to easily relate to the physical symbolism that often goes into Orthodox worship----but this read was excellent since a book such as this would be an important step in showing 1) that the Orthodox Church retains and values the memory of its Jewish heritage, and 2) that those of Jewish heritage have a respected voice within the Church. It's called "Orthodox Worship: A Living Continuity With the Temple, the Synagogue and the Early Church".

It's very beautiful - and there are others who've noted the same. In example, I'm reminded of the perspective of an interesting Jewish Orthodox Christian Priest..one who's both is both Orthodox and yet UnOrthodox at the same time due to where he may differ from others in certain things relating to the Jewish culture. I could definately relate, seeing how much of what he experienced is very akin to what I've seen with other Jewish believers (as said elsewhere before on the Desert Fathers). And there have been more concentrated efforts at ensuring that there are Jewish rites for others to look into....seeing how there are many Jewish individuals involved in Orthodox Churches and feeling that Messianic Jewish culture is best reflected there. For some good review, if interested, one of my sisters in CHrist (who's Jewish/Orthodox) has done some good reviews on the issue - as seen here:

• Why I Am a Zionist | The Groom's Family
• A Jewish-Arab Mission? | The Groom's Family
• P.S. Why I Am a Zionist | The Groom's Family
• Another Israeli Orthodox Church | The Groom's Family
• Support A Hebrew Priest in Jerusalem | The Groom's Family
• Jewish Identity I: The Zionists and The Millet | The Groom's Family

Ironic that one of the early J4Js ended up an Orthodox priest, saying that Orthodoxy is more Jewish. I totally get this.

 

[Steve Petersen]

I understand what you are saying, but I was thinking of a Hebrew rite- eg. Hebrew being the language and culture. The doctrinal side would therefore be informed by that as well.




Agreed. I tend to see MJism as very very protestant. Even where it divorces itself from protestantism it still has the modern evangelical protestant spirit guiding it. To me, because modern protestantism is so broad and can end up looking like just about anything the MJ movement just slots in nicely.



Ironic that one of the early J4Js ended up an Orthodox priest, saying that Orthodoxy is more Jewish. I totally get this.

Much more liturgical than most Protestants/Messianics. Not much 'Goosebumps = God' in a liturgically oriented venue.

 

[ContraMundum]

Much more liturgical than most Protestants/Messianics. Not much 'Goosebumps = God' in a liturgically oriented venue.

Good point. Well put too.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I understand what you are saying, but I was thinking of a Hebrew rite- eg. Hebrew being the language and culture. The doctrinal side would therefore be informed by that as well.

Got ya. In that case, as I made reference to it in the previous post, there are actually Churches geared to that specifically that other Jews in liturgical circles have noted. One can consider this article about a Hebrew-speaking Orthodox community in Israel, headed by an Arab priest and attended mostly by Russians. There's also Father Alexander Winogradsky Frenkel , an Orthodox priest serving a small community of mostly Jewish believers in the Old City of Jerusalem. He serves liturgy in Hebrew, though his tremendous linguistic abilities and repertoire of languages enable him to incorporate several other spoken languages for the benefit of those who come to worship with him - and for more one can investigate Support A Hebrew Priest in Jerusalem..or go to the following:

• Hebrew in the Church

There's also the work of Brother Gilbert who has done a lot of good review on what's known as Second Helsinki Conference: Jews in the Church (more shared here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here), a gathering of Jewish-Christian scholars from multiple denominations for a “discussion of crucial issues concerning the relationship of the Body of Christ to the people of Israel.”

Agreed. I tend to see MJism as very very protestant. Even where it divorces itself from protestantism it still has the modern evangelical protestant spirit guiding it. To me, because modern protestantism is so broad and can end up looking like just about anything the MJ movement just slots in nicely.

Makes sense, as it concerns what you noted.

Ironic that one of the early J4Js ended up an Orthodox priest, saying that Orthodoxy is more Jewish. I totally get this

It is ironic indeed - but not surprising, IMHO...nor something to be bothered by.

 

[ContraMundum]

GFather Alexander Winogradsky Frenkel , an Orthodox priest serving a small community of mostly Jewish believers in the Old City of Jerusalem. He serves liturgy in Hebrew, though his tremendous linguistic abilities and repertoire of languages enable him to incorporate several other spoken languages for the benefit of those who come to worship with him - and for more one can investigate .

Best quote from Fr Frenkel in regards Jewish believers in Jerusalem- "The use of Hebrew among Orthodox Christians here is growing, and it is for me prophetic and resurrectional" Amen to that!

 

[DennisTate]

I was asking here for the sake of asking---but I am examining different paths. I don't deny that I am leaning more towards Orthodoxy at this point. Messianic has always been appealing to me, though I am ignorant about what it teaches and believes at this point.

Maybe I am incorrect in saying this but there is an old saying that if there are two Jews in a room, then there will be at least three opinions on every topic discussed....this applies to Messianic Judaism as well......We are asking a lot of questions on specifics?!

Actually I just popped back in to invite anybody over to Unorthodox Theology who feels guided to either correct me in my ignorance for what I wrote here....or perhaps to add to this theory:


http://www.christianforums.com/t7708450/#post61982345

Did Mr. Christian Crowell plan a revival before he was even born????

 

[DRobert]

Unlike Orthodoxy, Messianic Judaism is not a denomination but instead is a movement.

Messianic Judaism started out as a movement of Jewish believers in Jesus, with the purpose of having a more Jewish atmosphere to gather and worship in, plus, most Jewish believers have unbelieving families, so Messianic Judaism is also an outreach into the Jewish community to share the truth the Jesus is the Messiah and savior, and the only way to salvation is thru faith in Jesus alone.

So Messianic Judaism agrees that Jesus/Yeshua in Hebrew, is the promised Messiah, and one must be born from above by faith alone, to receive salvation. Messianic Judaism believes that God has not abandoned Israel and that the Jewish people/Israel are by linage from Abrham, Isaac and Jacob, and God will gather the Jewish people back into the land and fulfill all promises given to the children of Israel.

Messianic Judaism welcomes Gentile members, and there is no requirement for Gentiles to keep the Mosaic law, although if a Gentile wishes to join in with Messianic Jews, there are some expectations. That Gentiles will worship on the Sabbath (Saturday) with us, and will celebrate the holy days from the Tenakh (Old Testament) with us as pointers and in memory of what the Messiah did for us.

Thank you everyone for your posts and for the information provided.

The content that I quoted above is something I find to be very pleasing. It has led me to wonder about one thing: What is the history of Messianic Judaism?

As some of you know, I am examining the faith to find what is right for me. I have some questions:

Question 1) Do Messianics believe in Transubstantiation?

Question 2) Do Messianics believe in The Communion Of Saints, and if so, what do they believe concerning it?

Question 3) How do Messianics celebrate the Eurcharist?

Question 4) As a gentile christian, am I required to abstain from blood just as it says to do in the book of acts?

Question 5) Do you guys do infant baptisms? Regardless, is immersion the only acceptable form, or do is pouring over the head or sprinkling accepted as well?

Question 6) Scripture alone, or like the RC and Orthodox Church do you believe in extra-scriptural documents to be used for the basis of doctrines as well as teachings.

I am very disappointed that gentile christians today do not celebrate the passover.

Sorry for so many questions. Forgive me....

 

[visionary]

Thank you everyone for your posts and for the information provided.

The content that I quoted above is something I find to be very pleasing. It has led me to wonder about one thing: What is the history of Messianic Judaism?

As some of you know, I am examining the faith to find what is right for me. I have some questions:

Question 1) Do Messianics believe in Transubstantiation?

no

Question 2) Do Messianics believe in The Communion Of Saints, and if so, what do they believe concerning it?

Seder every Passover

Question 3) How do Messianics celebrate the Eurcharist?

we do not celebrate it as you understand it or call it

Question 4) As a gentile christian, am I required to abstain from blood just as it says to do in the book of acts?

of course

Question 5) Do you guys do infant baptisms? Regardless, is immersion the only acceptable form, or do is pouring over the head or sprinkling accepted as well?

no infant baptism, but eight day old circumcision for the boys is available as a covenant with God.

Question 6) Scripture alone, or like the RC and Orthodox Church do you believe in extra-scriptural documents to be used for the basis of doctrines as well as teachings.

still being discussed and debated, as the RC and OC canonization doesn't bind us.

I am very disappointed that gentile christians today do not celebrate the passover.

Sorry for so many questions. Forgive me....

Questions are a good place to start, then it gets harder as we get deeper into the who what why when and for real. I would say that each of these questions deserve a thread of their own, because if you are serious then each question will be answered in the depth that it takes to answer your heart's and mind's confusion and confession. The answers will be like learning a new language, new culture, new approach to understanding what scripture says, and when I used the word "new" I mean "new for you". It is actually what we have come to understand is the way it was in Yeshua's time and in context of that time, the way they thought of it, rather than today's rendition.

 

[Qnts2]

Thank you everyone for your posts and for the information provided.

The content that I quoted above is something I find to be very pleasing. It has led me to wonder about one thing: What is the history of Messianic Judaism?

As some of you know, I am examining the faith to find what is right for me. I have some questions:

Question 1) Do Messianics believe in Transubstantiation?

No, Messianics believe that the 'communion' is symbolic, from the symbolism of Passover as applied to Yeshua.

Question 2) Do Messianics believe in The Communion Of Saints, and if so, what do they believe concerning it?

What do you mean by the 'Communion of Saints'?

Question 3) How do Messianics celebrate the Eurcharist?

No

Question 4) As a gentile christian, am I required to abstain from blood just as it says to do in the book of acts?

Scripture does say Gentiles are to refrain from blood, but, truthfully, in Messianic Judaism, I know of very few who do. At least not to the level the Jewish people who keep Kosher do.

Personally, I could go either way on this. It is a clear command, but the NT allows for purchasing meat sold in markets which would also sell meat sacrificed to idols. That meat would contain blood, so there appears to be an argument for allowing the eating of blood.

Question 5) Do you guys do infant baptisms? Regardless, is immersion the only acceptable form, or do is pouring over the head or sprinkling accepted as well?

No. Messianic Jewish families would circumcise their male infants, but Gentiles are not required to circumcise their male infants.

Baptism is viewed as an obedience to the Lords command (Mikvah), after one has chosen Yeshua and come to faith in Yeshua. Babies have not made that decision so would not be baptised.

Question 6) Scripture alone, or like the RC and Orthodox Church do you believe in extra-scriptural documents to be used for the basis of doctrines as well as teachings.

I am very disappointed that gentile christians today do not celebrate the passover.

Sorry for so many questions. Forgive me....

Messianic Judaism accepts the canonized scripture of Judaism for the Tenakh/OT, and the NT. The Tenakh/OT of Judaism is divided differently then Protestant Christianity, but the canonized books are the same.

There are additional books which are used at times for teaching but are not considered inspired, such as 1 Maccabees, and sometimes the Talmud is referenced for historical information. As well as the liturgy similar to Judaisms siddur, modified to include Jesus.