What is your view of Christmas...

[Avodat]

right you are - so i have done so - ty

Sorry, I missed the 'Hi' in my post!

 

[Qnts2]

I just wanted to add my thoughts to this thread.

I do not celebrate Christmas. Christmas is not a holiday found in scriptures, and since I did not grow up celebrating Christmas, I have simply been unable to relate. No warm fuzzy memories of Christmas, and no biblical mandate to celebrate Christmas.

But, in my view, Christmas is a tradition kept by mostly Gentiles churches, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with traditions. Jesus never came against traditions, as long as they are not violations of scripture and actually practiced certain traditions of his time common to the Jewish community.

So, there is absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas as a tradition, as long as it is not done in a manner which violates scripture. Christmas trees do not violate scripture as they are not worshipped as carved idols. Santa Claus is an issue.

When was Jesus born? The truth is we don't know because scripture doesn't tell us. Based on limited information based on the courses of the priesthood, that doesn't really narrow it down a whole lot. Based on the courses, Yeshua might have been born in the spring time, in the fall, and it is possible He was born sometime in December (based on the delay between the end of the course and the time to travel and time to pregnancy plus that shepherds in that area graze the sheep and tend the flocks in November and December when grass is abundant in the hills). The tradition of Jesus birth in December goes back to the 2nd century. If Jesus was born during the feast of Tabernacles (Succoth), it was not a fulfillment of Succoth, and without mention of His birth coinciding with Succoth in scripture, there would be no significance to His birth if it did happen to land during Succoth, or scripture would have certainly mentioned it. He was equally likely to have been born during Passover or in the November December time frame.


As far as pagan, something is pagan when it is for the purpose of honoring pagan gods. Pagans, who usually worship the creation, have made use of just about everything God has created, under the sun, plus the sun, moon and stars, so if we want to avoid anything ever used by pagans, we could not use anything at all. Including candles, stars, candelabras, crosses, trees, elephants, donkeys, horses, rats, cats, rocks, mountains, rivers, oceans etc.

 

[Lulav]

I don't celebrate any 'Mass'. Which means " Eucharist" and this is the name for the 'sacrifice' celebrated by the catholic church. Christ's sacrifice is hardly a celebration of a birth.

The Christmas tree is not that old at all. It comes from Germany. At most it can be dated back 4 centurions. It was also known as the 'Yule tree', and it associated with the god Odin. Heathen sacrifices, many bloody ones, feasting and a pagan temple are all connected to this.

Some people see a warning to Israel against decorated trees found in Jeremiah

1 Hear what the L-RD says to you, O house of Israel.
2 This is what the L-RD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them.
3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.

 

[twnsrkr]

I do think Christmas is a pagan practice.

 

[visionary]

When it comes to the birth of Yeshua and what day was He born, there are several ways of trying to pin point the time frame. One of my favorite step by step bible studies into this question is found here. Check it out and see what you think.

 

[ChavaK]

Christmas is what you make it.

Exactly. It can be viewed as a Christian celebration of the birth of their messiah, or it can be viewed as a pagan festival. Hopefully most see it in the former light.

I'm not big on religious holidays as a rule. Even the Jewish ones don't get me very excited anymore.

But what about all the food?

 

[anisavta]

I enjoy everyone's Christmas light displays, but now that I've stepped away from the trappings of the holiday, I can see why it's a poke in the eye.
Ever actually listen to the words of the classic religious Christmas songs? They are beautiful to the ears, but the story line is usually full of tweeked truth and sometimes actual lies. Ever notice that the music itself is Latin based - Catholic in nature? Here Yeshua was born a Jew in Israel to Jewish parents in a Israeli culture, but the music never has a Mediterranean flavor. Never features His Jewish upbringing.
And then, why do we remember His birth as if He never grew up? He remains a baby. "Sweet little Jesus boy...", "Away in a manger..." Do we celebrate birthdays by reminding people about their birth, and how they were as a baby?
No wonder people love Christmas. They can disassociate Yeshua as the living Messiah by making Him a perpetual baby with no power. Add the pretty colors and sparkle, the enticement of presents and you have a benign holiday that appeals to everyone.

 

[Lulav]

I enjoy everyone's Christmas light displays, but now that I've stepped away from the trappings of the holiday, I can see why it's a poke in the eye.
Ever actually listen to the words of the classic religious Christmas songs? They are beautiful to the ears, but the story line is usually full of tweeked truth and sometimes actual lies. Ever notice that the music itself is Latin based - Catholic in nature? Here Yeshua was born a Jew in Israel to Jewish parents in a Israeli culture, but the music never has a Mediterranean flavor. Never features His Jewish upbringing.
And then, why do we remember His birth as if He never grew up? He remains a baby. "Sweet little Jesus boy...", "Away in a manger..." Do we celebrate birthdays by reminding people about their birth, and how they were as a baby?
No wonder people love Christmas. They can disassociate Yeshua as the living Messiah by making Him a perpetual baby with no power. Add the pretty colors and sparkle, the enticement of presents and you have a benign holiday that appeals to everyone.

Yes, it's either sweet baby Jesus in the hay or dead adult Jesus forever hanging on a cross!

 

[Lulav]

Exactly. It can be viewed as a Christian celebration of the birth of their messiah, or it can be viewed as a pagan festival. Hopefully most see it in the former light.

Why would you want to see it in the former? I'm confused. Jesus isn't the Jewish Messiah to you, and is worshiped by some as G-d, which would be idolatrous, thus pagan, so how do you divide the two?

Were Gentiles in any nation ever promised a Messiah?

 

[ChavaK]

Why would you want to see it in the former? I'm confused. Jesus isn't the Jewish Messiah to you, and is worshiped by some as G-d, which would be idolatrous, thus pagan, so how do you divide the two?

Because they are not Jews and I don't see them as being involved in idol worship. I have no problems with Christians and their beliefs even if I do not share them.

Were Gentiles in any nation ever promised a Messiah?

Actually the concept of messiah is pretty vague in the tanach.
I don't think there will be a "Jews" only messiah though

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I don't think there will be a "Jews" only messiah though

Messiah was always meant to redeem both Jews and Gentiles who trusted in Him Isaiah 42 is one of the most powerful scriptures on that reality when seeing the reach of the Messiah being even unto the islands/other Gentile territories....and of course, other scriptures where the Lord noted Gentiles who trusted in Him would recieve what the Messiah came to bring them. For those who trust in Christ, it seems He was prophesied to be Messiah for both Jews and Gentiles since only he could redeem all from the curse of sin...

Isaiah 49:5-7 / Isaiah 49
And now the Lord says—
he who formed me in the womb(A) to be his servant
to bring Jacob back to him
and gather Israel(B) to himself,
for I am[a] honored(C) in the eyes of the Lord
and my God has been my strength(D)—
6 he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant(E)
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.(F)

I will also make you a light(G) for the Gentiles,(H)
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”(I)

7 This is what the Lord says—
the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel(J)—
to him who was despised(K) and abhorred by the nation,
to the servant of rulers:
“Kings(L) will see you and stand up,
princes will see and bow down,(M)
because of the Lord, who is faithful,(N)
the Holy One of Israel, who has chosen(O) you.”

Isaiah 51:5
My righteousness draws near speedily, my salvation is on the way, and my arm will bring justice to the nations. The islands will look to me and wait in hope for my arm.
Isaiah 51:4-6

Luke 2:31-33/Luke 2
27 Moved by the Spirit, he went into the temple courts. When the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the custom of the Law required,(W) 28 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying:
29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,(X)
you may now dismiss[d] your servant in peace.(Y)
30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,(Z)
31which you have prepared in the sight of all nations:
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and the glory of your people Israel.”(AA)

​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It can be viewed as a Christian celebration of the birth of their messiah, or it can be viewed as a pagan festival. Hopefully most see it in the former light.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I just wanted to add my thoughts to this thread.

I do not celebrate Christmas. Christmas is not a holiday found in scriptures, and since I did not grow up celebrating Christmas, I have simply been unable to relate. No warm fuzzy memories of Christmas, and no biblical mandate to celebrate Christmas.

But, in my view, Christmas is a tradition kept by mostly Gentiles churches, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with traditions. Jesus never came against traditions, as long as they are not violations of scripture and actually practiced certain traditions of his time common to the Jewish community.

So, there is absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas as a tradition, as long as it is not done in a manner which violates scripture. Christmas trees do not violate scripture as they are not worshipped as carved idols. Santa Claus is an issue.

When was Jesus born? The truth is we don't know because scripture doesn't tell us. Based on limited information based on the courses of the priesthood, that doesn't really narrow it down a whole lot. Based on the courses, Yeshua might have been born in the spring time, in the fall, and it is possible He was born sometime in December (based on the delay between the end of the course and the time to travel and time to pregnancy plus that shepherds in that area graze the sheep and tend the flocks in November and December when grass is abundant in the hills). The tradition of Jesus birth in December goes back to the 2nd century. If Jesus was born during the feast of Tabernacles (Succoth), it was not a fulfillment of Succoth, and without mention of His birth coinciding with Succoth in scripture, there would be no significance to His birth if it did happen to land during Succoth, or scripture would have certainly mentioned it. He was equally likely to have been born during Passover or in the November December time frame.


As far as pagan, something is pagan when it is for the purpose of honoring pagan gods. Pagans, who usually worship the creation, have made use of just about everything God has created, under the sun, plus the sun, moon and stars, so if we want to avoid anything ever used by pagans, we could not use anything at all. Including candles, stars, candelabras, crosses, trees, elephants, donkeys, horses, rats, cats, rocks, mountains, rivers, oceans etc.

Thanks for sharing that

 

[redrose42]

what about christmas and easter cards i make greeting cards for both holidays

maggie

 

[MessianicMommy]

Generally speaking, I don't send Easter or Christmas cards.

 

[Avodat]

what about christmas and easter cards i make greeting cards for both holidays

maggie

Professionally?

 

[aniello]

Recalling(with aged memory) from PlayBoy magazine's little Compendium of Christmas Caroles back around 1959, iirc:

Oh little town of Bethlehem,
How still we see thee lie,

Above thy deep BUT restless sleep,
the strontium clouds roll by,:o

And in the west sky's shining,
the mushroom's glowing light,

the hopes and fears of all the years,
Were blown to Hell tonight.

 

[Yahu]

Do you feel it is wrong? Just curious no bashing intended.

Christmas is a pagan holiday that was usurped by the church. More likely the day of Yeshua's birth was Succoth.

 

[yedida]

Professionally?

I don't send out cards for any of the four, Chanukkah, Christmas, Passover or Easter.
Professionally? Back when I was working regularly at the answering service, we had to answer (about a week before xmas) "Happy Holidays" so I would start about a week before Chanukkah answering like that. When I was called on it by the big-wigs, I explained that if I was forced to acknowledge the christian holiday, by law, they had to allow acknowledgment of my holiday. To our clients who noticed, I just simply explained that Chanukkah was coming up and not everyone in the world is christian! (I didn't have any further problems about it after that. I was allowed to do either - recognize the Jewish holy days or not acknowledge the Christian ones, whichever I chose. They're actually pretty good people, just normal, they forget that the world isn't all Christian!)

 

[Lulav]

Dont' for get Kwanza too, around the same time.