What is your view of Christmas...

[Norbert L]

My view on the subject is the day is a commandment of men or at least instituted by men claiming to be part of the Church hundreds of years after the fact.

The way I see it my obligation is to John 17:20 "... which shall believe on me through their word;". Not to the word of other men hundreds of years later.

Don't get me wrong, the few scriptures mentioning Messiah's birth and the study thereof is a wonderful thing.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

What if one doesn't have a closet

.....

As others have mentioned, the Toilet is the best place to go. Throne Room prayer time is often powerful in those spots

 

[Avodat]

Although in Judaism it has often been believed that the toilet is the place where hasatan resides. There is an account of a Rab who would only use their outdoor toilet if his wife was with him. As she couldn't be literally with him, a hole was cut in the rear wall and, whilst he was on the toilet, she stood with her hand through the wall, placing it on his head for the whole time he was in there, praying for protection for him!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Wow

 

[Avodat]

Recounted in Everyman's Talmud (p263). Ref: Ber 62a

 

[davidbenephraim]

Do you feel it is wrong? Just curious no bashing intended.

I have already replied to your thread, but I have received a couple of replies that has caused me to reconsider my original answer to your question. Originally, I was attempting to respond in a non-offensive way hoping that you would be inspried to do your own study and research to gain the data to help you make an informed judgment about Christmas on your own. I am now answering your question they way I originally wanted to. I hope that your question really did stem from an honest desire to receive truthful information.

As I was attempting to allude to in my previous reply there are a number of sources and resources of data to support what I am writing here today. Christmas is a pagan holiday the Romans once called Saturnalia. Many Christmas traditions such as exchanging gifts, closing down schools and government offices, and visiting family have their roots in Satunalia.

The Christmas tree with its gold and silver decorations has been in use since the most ancient of days. In fact, the Christmas tree was identified in the Bible as an Asherah or Asherim. The Asherim are sacred trees ancient idolators would cut down, decorated with gold and silver ornaments, and set up next to their pagan altars. This idoltrous practice is forbidden in the Torah. As it is written, "You shall not plant for yourself an Asherah of any kind of tree beside the altar of Yahweh your Elohim, which you shall make for yourself" Deuteronomy 16:21 (NASB).

The altar was built within close proximity to the Most Holy Place of Yahweh's Temple and He did not want such a detestable thing as an Asherah that close to His presence. Rav Shaul said in his letter to the Corinthian fellowship, "Do you not know that you are a temple of Yahweh and that the Ruach of Elohim dwells in you?" I Corinthians 3:16 (NASB)

It is my opinion that Yahweh does not want us to set up an Asherah (no matter what it is called today) within close proximity to the Temples of Yah made without hands any more than He wanted an Asherah set up next to His altar at the Temple in Jerusalem made with men's hands that was destroyed in 70 A.D. by the Romans.

December 25 has been well documented as the date when the Romans celebrated Natalis Solis Invicti or the Birth of the Unconquerable Sun. The Astrology Encyclopedia clearly states that the Roman worshippers of Mithras the sun-god celebrated his birthday on this date.

Church history shows that as traditional Christianity became more and more anti-Torah, the leaders of the church compromised with the pagans and made idolatrous concessions that allowed the spiritually unregenrated Greco-Romans to join the Christian Church without true repentence. As such, Christmas among other idolatrous festivals were absorbed and assimilated until now it is hard for people to recognize the paganism in their churches and homes.

I am not church bashing. I am just stating for the record that for these reasons and others not mentioned my wife and I do not celebrate Christmas. I can only speak for myself in saying that I love El my Father so much that I would never knowingly do anything so insulting to Him as to participate in a holiday that is so unBiblical. I am also sharing with you some of the information I know about Christmas. Are you open-minded enough to receive it or are so close-minded that you are offended by it?

Shalom,
David

 

[Gxg (G²)]

My view on the subject is the day is a commandment of men or at least instituted by men claiming to be part of the Church hundreds of years after the fact.

The way I see it my obligation is to John 17:20 "... which shall believe on me through their word;". Not to the word of other men hundreds of years later.

Don't get me wrong, the few scriptures mentioning Messiah's birth and the study thereof is a wonderful thing.

Nothing wrong with that, seeing that there is no command for anyone to celebrate Christmas by Christ...just as there's no command for anyone to celebrate the Feast of Dedication.

 

[yedida]

Recounted in Everyman's Talmud (p263). Ref: Ber 62a

My understanding of the "closet" isn't a room at all but the privacy one receives when the tallis is pulled up upon one's head when praying (or the "hood" part of the ancient cloak that housed the tzitziot). This is also connected to the "wings" that shelter us. Just saying...

And going into a toilet for prayer? sheesh......

 

[Avodat]

My understanding of the "closet" isn't a room at all but the privacy one receives when the tallis is pulled up upon one's head when praying (or the "hood" part of the ancient cloak that housed the tzitziot). This is also connected to the "wings" that shelter us. Just saying...

And going into a toilet for prayer? sheesh......

I was just commenting on how the loo was seen as a satanic place - I think there is also a Rabbinic prohibition on reading Scripture in the loo. A closet is often seen as being a small enclosed area (which is where the term 'WC' - meaning a toilet - comes from). The letters WC simply mean water closet. Translators used the term they were used to - as with many other translations - many of which have no real meaning today. One of the problems of sticking with olde English Bibles!

 

[yedida]

I was just commenting on how the loo was seen as a satanic place - I think there is also a Rabbinic prohibition on reading Scripture in the loo. A closet is often seen as being a small enclosed area (which is where there term 'WC' - meaning a toilet - comes from). The letters WC simply mean water closet. Translators used the term they were used to - as with many other translations - many of which have no real meaning today. One of the problems of sticking with olde English Bibles!

I think you're right about the prohibition. I've been to several MJ shuls that have hangers outside the bathrooms for that very purpose. My congregation doesn't have its own building but the host church is always willing to allow such hangers to be put on the walls for the talliot to be hung before entering the restrooms.

 

[Lulav]

Yes, I initiated this practice at my shul. It is because of the atara, which contains the name of G-d or the representation.

I had one arrogant man say that he didn't have to take his off before he went into the bathroom because he wasn't Jewish.

 

[yedida]

Yes, I initiated this practice at my shul. It is because of the atara, which contains the name of G-d or the representation.

I had one arrogant man say that he didn't have to take his off before he went into the bathroom because he wasn't Jewish.

I'd have liked to be a fly on the wall at that moment,

 

[Lulav]

He didn't say it to me, but to my husband who pointed it out to him, if it had been me, I'd rather be a fly swatter.

 

[watchman333]

As a child, about 62 years ago, I asked my first prayer from G-d, on a toilet seat, and it was immediately answered, so that seat will always have a special place in my prayer life! Insofar as Christmas, it is too commercialized and puts a burden of debt on too many of G-d's children. For a long time now, I have been convinced this is the doctrine of the Nicolataines, which thing I hate, saith Yeshua.

 

[Thekla]

Technically, we just had Christmas for many people in July due to calender issues...but the ways the EOCs have never been for a December birthday aspect has always seemed very interesting when it comes to trying to do guilt-by-association ideology. Many scholars conclude Christ was actually born during warm months, as evidenced by the shepherds in the fields, and there has been a movement in recent years to mark Christmas in July.

Interestingly enough, when seeing the ways pagan aspects were present within many of the Biblical Festivals themselves as well as Jewish culture, it does make you wonder. Many of the Feasts had elements directly in line with agricultural celebrations/festivals of the Cannanites...and there's a reason many Jewish scholars note how much of Ancient Israel borrowed elements/reinterpreted them at the direction of the Lord. Pagan feasts were celebrated around the same time of the year as was Passover...and in regards to things like Sabbath, it was already the case in Babylonia, long before the Exodus account, that the days Sabbath was done on were also done by Babylon...not for the sake of rest but rather because certain days were seen as unlucky days. For a good read on the issue:

• Studies, Essays and Reviews: Old Testament
• Ancient Israel: Its Life and Institutions - Page 513
• Journal of Biblical literature: Volumes 41-42 - Page 207

I thought to (re)introduce this link, which outlines the competing proposals for timing - both based on Zechariah's service:

Christmas - Was Jesus born on December 25th?

Re: the sheep; ruminants can graze through (up to) six inches of snow. Sheep farmers (including those we have known ) continue grazing sheep through the winter months. As well, winters in Israel are relatively mild; I'm not sure the grazing issue can be used to date the timing of the birth of Christ.

 

[ananda]

"A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth." Ecc 7:1