Atheism (3)

[Dave Ellis]

create a person with the ability to follow orders or not...

A= follow orders
B= not

how is it illogical to create a person with both abilities. Your not forcing them to choose B, you are not forcing them to choose A?

Secondly, if God is outside of space and time which I believe He is, then He knows the end from the beginning. He knows who will actually choose B and He decides on keeping those who choose A. Easy.

I understand your argument.... however, it's still not logical.

If he's omniscient and all powerful, he knows that some people he is creating are going to be bound for hell based on how he is making them.

There's no way out of that

 

[Belk]

God owns His creations, we dont own our children.

So, just to make sure I am following the thrust of your argument here, your contention is that if I "own" something then I can do anything to it and that is moral?

 

[createdtoworship]

So, just to make sure I am following the thrust of your argument here, your contention is that if I "own" something then I can do anything to it and that is moral?

now owning a slave is not moral, no human is another humans property. So yes if you own something you can do what ever you want to it. Toss it in the trash, eat it, or put it on the shelf for later.

 

[dlamberth]

God owns His creations,

Rubbish!!!


.

 

[createdtoworship]

I understand your argument.... however, it's still not logical.

If he's omniscient and all powerful, he knows that some people he is creating are going to be bound for hell based on how he is making them.

There's no way out of that

your saying that some people have a tendency to sin and others dont'?

Well the Bible says in

1 Corinthians 10:13a

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man..."

 

[dlamberth]

selfishness! They try to breast feed right away without any further courtesy to the mother.

Oh wow!!!! It's instinct...and a need God put into every newborn creature.

.

 

[createdtoworship]

Well, if he knows that they're destined for hell, and he's loving, the best thing to do would be to not create that person in the first place.

that would be the difference we have, you believe it's not worth the effort, I believe it is.

 

[createdtoworship]

There's numerous examples in the New Testament that states the Old Testament laws are still valid.

Since sin is dead apart from law, what happens if we live under law?

Romans 7:8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead.

 

[Dave Ellis]

now owning a slave is not moral, no human is another humans property. So yes if you own something you can do what ever you want to it. Toss it in the trash, eat it, or put it on the shelf for later.

I see....

Well, I own my Dog. Does that mean it would be perfectly morally acceptable to burn him alive?

That can't be the argument you're trying to make.... but it is consistent with the argument you have raised.

 

[jpcedotal]

The key is though God knows whose names is in the book of life, we ourselves do not. The arguement of "why try since it is all predestined" falls short because predestination can only be used as a tool or excuse when those who are predestined know the end result for themselves personally.

The argument reeks of simple laziness and selfishness.

 

[Dave Ellis]

your saying that some people have a tendency to sin and others dont'?

Well the Bible says in

1 Corinthians 10:13a

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man..."

Please point out where I said that. This is another Red Herring.

I said if God is omniscient, he must know that some people he is bringing into creation will be bound for Hell.

 

[createdtoworship]

I see....

Well, I own my Dog. Does that mean it would be perfectly morally acceptable to burn him alive?

That can't be the argument you're trying to make.... but it is consistent with the argument you have raised.

technically you don't own Him/Her, God does. And we treat animals the same as all of God's creations, with respect. Unless you want to eat him/her for breakfast, then thats a different story. Ham anyone?

 

[Dave Ellis]

that would be the difference we have, you believe it's not worth the effort, I believe it is.

Really...

So, you have the option of creating a person that will suffer an eternity of being burnt alive

or

You have an option to not create that person


And you think it's more morally acceptable to create someone bound for an eternity of torture? Are you insane?

 

[jpcedotal]

I said if God is omniscient, he must know that some people he is bringing into creation will be bound for Hell.

True...but still these individuals doomed may point others to Him. Sacrificing life for life has always been a part of how God does things.

 

[Skavau]

technically you don't own Him/Her, God does. And we treat animals the same as all of God's creations, with respect. Unless you want to eat him/her for breakfast, then thats a different story. Ham anyone?

Owning people is typically considered slavery, which is immoral.

 

[createdtoworship]

Owning people is typically considered slavery, which is immoral.

exactly

 

[jpcedotal]

Owning people is typically considered slavery, which is immoral.

Immoral by what or whose standard? man or God's?

 

[Skavau]

Immoral by what or whose standard? man or God's?

Man's. Us.

If you're going to say God approves of slavery then I want nothing to do with him.

 

[jpcedotal]

Owning a slave isn't immoral. Treating a slave inhumanly one owns is.

 

[Tinker Grey]

God apparently has no standards.