the awaited messiah of the Jews

[LoAmmi]

Because psalm 8.2 targets the priests according to mathew 21.

Why is isaiah 53 avoided in rabinical schools today?

It is not avoided at all. That is one of those rumors certain Christians put forward to make it sound like we avoid scripture that would help Jesus.

I must go. It is shabbat.

 

[SanFrank]

The Lord healed on shabbat and it's okay for me to try to heal others.

 

[Booko]

I don't know how much of the Torah was hid or changed to disprove the new testament by the scribes.

There is not evidence to support the idea, and to be frank, it is really insulting of you to say this, especially since there is no evidence.

.in the new testament leaven is describe as false doctrine

Leaven is a metaphor, and in different places it plays a different role.

It does not play the role of "false doctrine" in the example you offered with that parable. Unless you think the "Kingdom of God" is some sort of false doctrine, because that is what is mentioned and that is the subject of the parable.

In other verses, yes, leaven is used in the context of the "leaven of the Pharisees and Saducees." And that is where it refers to false doctrine.

 

[Booko]

Oh, yeah...
Jesus was a prophet, but what evidence do you have that John was the prophet Elijah, returned?

Jesus' own words in the Gospel of Matthew:

11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

So, if you think John the Baptist was not the return of Elijah, you have some limited possibilities here. One is to claim that the Gospel of Matthew was unreliable. The other is to claim that Jesus was a liar.

 

[Booko]

how can one man be another man when he is that man?...if a man can only be himself.....then jesus was speaking symbolically....and since we know elijah is yet to come....then john was not elijah...nor the fulfillment of the prophecy of elijah return before the great and terrible day

Matt 11:15

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

This is how Jesus gives people a clue "Yo, I am speaking in metaphor figure it out."

Another example is "Let the dead bury their dead."

Um, dead people cannot do that and the people He was talking about were *physically* alive. Read literally that sentence is nonsense.

If you want to figure this out, maybe look with your spiritual eye not your physical one.

 

[LOCO]

If the awaited messiah of the Jews comes tomorrow.....would he be a false messiah if he was not Jesus?....for believers in the Christian faith....he would be false....Jesus said to be not deceive......when they say behold he is in the desert or secret chamber....do not go after him...the theme of the new testament is that Jesus is the true king and savior of Israel....all others false....past present and future

The question should be would the Jewish people recognise him?

 

[Booko]

moses and elijah appeared before jesus?....well call me a conspiracy nut if you want to.....but it is possible that moses did not appeared to him........moses was dead....melchesidec was dead....the only two who could have appeared before jesus was enoch and elijah...so the text was altered...someone added moses and took out enoch.....to convince the jews that the new testament is a lie....for why would jews think that moses would appear to jesus being dead?...they would not...but only perceieve the gospel as the gosple of satan....this type of thing has happen throughout the new testament

I'm sorry, but who exactly altered the text of the NT where it talks about the Transfiguration? The story is in three of three of the Synoptic Gospels. Were they all edited? Who did that? How did they accomplish that? And what evidence do you have for that happening?

Of course Moses' body was dead. So? What does that have to do with the phenomenon of religious visions? And is Moses' spirit dead as well?

Do you believe anything at all in the Bible is true? And if you really find the texts that inaccurate, why do you even bother with them?

Do you seriously believe that Satan has influenced the Bible?

Is God so impotent or disinterested he would just allow that to happen?

Or is that some kind perverse "test" for people?

 

[Booko]

The question should be would the Jewish people recognise him?

Or for that matter, would the Gentiles.

 

[LOCO]

Or for that matter, would the Gentiles.

That is not the OP question. The Christian response to anyone claiming to be the Jewish Messiah is obvious.

 

[dfw69]

That is not the OP question. The Christian response to anyone claiming to be the Jewish Messiah is obvious.

yes its aways been....jesus...anyone other than jesus comes is false....

but a man can come claiming to be "Yahushua"....an be not jesus, but just a man claiming to be jesus or yahushua to decieve the church..... he says "i am jesus"....but he is a liar to decieve the church

for we do not await a man ,,,,we await a God....

Behold jesus...

Rev 1

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”[b]
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”[c]
So shall it be! Amen. 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty

14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

 

[dfw69]

There is not evidence to support the idea, and to be frank, it is really insulting of you to say this, especially since there is no evidence.



quote]

your right... no evidences that i know of....i dont mean to insult ...im sorry....i dont know who did it.....but i believe it has been done ....

 

[Wally Cleaver]

Jesus' own words in the Gospel of Matthew:


So, if you think John the Baptist was not the return of Elijah, you have some limited possibilities here. One is to claim that the Gospel of Matthew was unreliable. The other is to claim that Jesus was a liar.

And another is to claim Elias is ambiguous. Perhaps Elisha?

 

[dfw69]

Jesus' own words in the Gospel of Matthew:


So, if you think John the Baptist was not the return of Elijah, you have some limited possibilities here. One is to claim that the Gospel of Matthew was unreliable. The other is to claim that Jesus was a liar.

really?....do not rely on the new testament.... because the text is altered?....its the words of eternal life....the message is still there....how else would anyone be saved....many are seen in heaven....the subtle changes are to convince mainly jews that he is not the messiah.....but a false prophet.....but the message remains

 

[dfw69]

I'm sorry, but who exactly altered the text of the NT where it talks about the Transfiguration? The story is in three of three of the Synoptic Gospels. Were they all edited? Who did that? How did they accomplish that? And what evidence do you have for that happening?

Of course Moses' body was dead. So? What does that have to do with the phenomenon of religious visions? And is Moses' spirit dead as well?

Do you believe anything at all in the Bible is true? And if you really find the texts that inaccurate, why do you even bother with them?

Do you seriously believe that Satan has influenced the Bible?

Is God so impotent or disinterested he would just allow that to happen?

Or is that some kind perverse "test" for people?

sister i dont have all the answers....and your need for solid proof only God can give....i share with you what i believe ...thats all....what i have to say may not be enough for you...

 

[dfw69]

That would be the Christian understanding, yes.

But loammi.....here's the warning....Jesus said another will come in his own name and Israel is going to receive him.....so if your looking for another messiah ....this man will cause you to stumble...but if you wait on Jesus to fullfill the prophecies you won't stumble....Jesus prophesied that his enemies of the gospel would accept another that is not from god..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by dfw69 hello LoAmmi....do you know a good link that list all the messianic prophecies?

Not one that would be allowed on this forum.

Shalom. There are a few threads on CF that discuss them, perhaps we can start a thread on it here if you like

http://www.christianforums.com/t7354244-6/
Prophecies of the Messiah fulfilled in Jesus Christ

http://www.christianforums.com/blogs/u232664-e8200/
What is the big argument that Jesus failed to fulfill the Messiah prophecies of O.T.


.

 

[BruceDLimber]

the messiah you seek is jesus....

Once again, this ignores the fact that both the Jewish and Christian scriptures prophesy that the Spirit will have a new name!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[dfw69]

Once again, this ignores the fact that both the Jewish and Christian scriptures prophesy that the Spirit will have a new name!

Peace,

Bruce

hi bruce....i can't speak for Judaism......but can you show me where in the new testament says the spirit will have a new name......and why is that important?

 

[dfw69]

Shalom. There are a few threads on CF that discuss them, perhaps we can start a thread on it here if you like


.[/QUOTE

Sure .....i would like a list of prophecies that Jesus did not fulfill (yet)....that convince Jews its evidence that Jesus was not the promised messiah

 

[Wally Cleaver]

Sure .....i would like a list of prophecies that Jesus did not fulfill (yet)....that convince Jews say its evidence that Jesus was not the promised messiah

You could harp on the fact that the line of Kings from David is cut off. (though it isn't) Since they should* believe it isn't, where is the throne of David now?

*as admitted by LoAmmi earlier