Different state past

[CabVet]

I'd love it if that guy sat down with this guy so that their two literal translations of the Creation Story would come down to a more similar message (which makes me laugh that two LITERAL translations come to such completely different conclusions:

Genesis 1: The Literal Interpretation of the Creation Account

I am seeing more and more that "literal" is in the eye of the beholder. In addition, I haven't found here in this forum two creationists that agree in a version of creation or two Christians that agree in the same interpretation of Genesis.

 

[rambot]

I am seeing more and more that "literal" is in the eye of the beholder.

As a Christian watching, it seems almost like a piety competition "I can read this more literally than you can heretic!"

 

[GrowingSmaller]

But did the people who wrote these stories actially mean they be taken literally? From what I know the literalists (7th C Karaite sect) amongst the Jews were regarded as heretics, also that they influenced Islamis view that the Rabbis had twisted the meaning of the scripture for their own purposes. By the way I do not know much on this topic...

 

[Split Rock]

But did the people who wrote these stories actially mean they be taken literally? From what I know the literalists (7th C Karaite sect) amongst the Jews were regarded as heretics, also that they influenced Islamis view that the Rabbis had twisted the meaning of the scripture for their own purposes. By the way I do not know much on this topic...

It is highly unlikely they meant any of these stories to be read as literal histories. In fact, there were no literal histories at the time. I have argued this point many times here myself.

 

[dad]

How about you copy and paste some of that "evidence" here? I am not going to pay to see it either.

The site is free. So is the pdf.

http://splitmerge.webs.com/split.pdf

 

[dad]

I've written it three times and you still don't understand.
I'm getting a feeling that a discussion with you, on any topic, is not going to be anything short of a head bashing session.

Try sayying something clear and relevant.

So, for the fourth time, you have no scientific leg to stand on. You claim science can only know what is hapenning right now (never mind that you have yet to even define what "right now" or "present" even mean). So the confidence with which you approach this debate is actually quite funny.

The nature change likely was about 4400 plus years ago. So science falls well within the present state. Let me know if you still don't get it.

Holy cow!! You came close to getting what I wanted after my having to ask only 3 times!!!
The guy spends large tracts of his article talking about the future. He certainly doesn't offer much sound Biblical support for a past different state.

Well, here is some in case you missed it. The fast growing garden God planted. The spirits marrying women. The long lifespans.

I'd love it if that guy sat down with this guy so that their two literal translations of the Creation Story would come down to a more similar message (which makes me laugh that two LITERAL translations come to such completely different conclusions:

Genesis 1: The Literal Interpretation of the Creation Account

Well you have one of them here. So speak well.

 

[rambot]

Try sayying something clear and relevant.

Well, you chose to respond THIS time to the SAME message I've given three times. I'm not convinced that has anything to do with me or how well I communicate.

The nature change likely was about 4400 plus years ago. So science falls well within the present state. Let me know if you still don't get it.

Unfortunately, it will probably take a LONG time for me to understand and I'm not sure exactly how patient you are in your explanations.
That said, you can't even give an exact date when the entire NATURE OF THE UNIVERSE changed? So I'm not sure how you can claim to have a strong theory.

Well, here is some in case you missed it. The fast growing garden God planted. The spirits marrying women. The long lifespans.

1) Fast growing garden? I'd be inclined to think that God just accessed his HUGE cosmic nursery and planted FULLY GROWN plants and various and sundry other plants at differing stages of maturity.
Evidence to the opposite?
2)Spirits marrying women? Provide evidence to me that spirits 4500 years ago were the SAME as spirits that we see now. Maybe spirits could be other "holy men" or shaman as it is not uncommon in other cultures to describe very physical individuals as "spirits".
3) Long life spans: "1000 years like a day, day is like a thousand years". Any evidence to indicate that the reported years for Methusala were Julian calendar, solar years? How can you know that a year was the same amount of time back then?

Ultimately, if you claim the nature of the universe was different several thousand years ago, it seems ludicrous to think that the way the Bible was written "pre-shift" is not also fundamentally different.

 

[CabVet]

The site is free. So is the pdf.

http://splitmerge.webs.com/split.pdf

There is not a single line of evidence for a different state past in that PDF. I just read the whole thing.

 

[Freodin]

There is not a single line of evidence for a different state past in that PDF. I just read the whole thing.

Small wonder... this is dad's website. You cannot expect him to post evidence there that he doesn't post here.

 

[Tiberius]

lol, does he think that evidence means more if it comes from another website?

 

[dad]

Well, you chose to respond THIS time to the SAME message I've given three times. I'm not convinced that has anything to do with me or how well I communicate.

If there was a response then, what are you doing the mess around for? Deal with it.

Unfortunately, it will probably take a LONG time for me to understand and I'm not sure exactly how patient you are in your explanations.
That said, you can't even give an exact date when the entire NATURE OF THE UNIVERSE changed? So I'm not sure how you can claim to have a strong theory.

It was likely about 4400 years ago. Now, can I have an exact date for your big bang?

1) Fast growing garden? I'd be inclined to think that God just accessed his HUGE cosmic nursery and planted FULLY GROWN plants and various and sundry other plants at differing stages of maturity.
Evidence to the opposite?

That is speculation.
Planting a full grown tree is silly. It also defeats the nature of the meaning of planting a garden. Besides there is also the event where a tree leaf was found after the flood. A week before this, no trees were there. Again, the fast growth was part of nature.

2)Spirits marrying women? Provide evidence to me that spirits 4500 years ago were the SAME as spirits that we see now. Maybe spirits could be other "holy men" or shaman as it is not uncommon in other cultures to describe very physical individuals as "spirits".

? You see spirits now?? Get help. By the way, men are men, and angels are angels. So you can't find some old shaman named Gabriel and claim he is a spirit and an archangel.

3) Long life spans: "1000 years like a day, day is like a thousand years". Any evidence to indicate that the reported years for Methusala were Julian calendar, solar years? How can you know that a year was the same amount of time back then?

Context. The men were so many years when their first son was recorded. The years consisted of days. You point cannot fly.

Ultimately, if you claim the nature of the universe was different several thousand years ago, it seems ludicrous to think that the way the Bible was written "pre-shift" is not also fundamentally different.

The bible is different! It will still be here after the world ceases to exist as we have known it, and the very stars of heaven. It is not stuck in the mud of the present state only, like the guppies of science!

 

[dad]

There is not a single line of evidence for a different state past in that PDF. I just read the whole thing.

The bible case is pretty clear, can you admit that much?

 

[CabVet]

The bible case is pretty clear, can you admit that much?

Nope, no "evidence" in the Bible either. If you can read that from what the Bible says, you can read anything in between those lines.

 

[dad]

lol, does he think that evidence means more if it comes from another website?

No. But who in their right mind wants to type several pages every time some newbie needs a 'get up to snuff crash course' in DSP??

 

[Tiberius]

Okay, let me ask you...

Do you have any evidence for your claims that comes from someone who isn't you?

 

[dad]

Okay, let me ask you...

Do you have any evidence for your claims that comes from someone who isn't you?

Yes. ..God.

 

[selfinflikted]

Yes. ..God.

Have you ever asked yourself why god hasn't "revealed" this same information to his other followers? If not, you should. Then reflect on your answer.

 

[rambot]

It was likely about 4400 years ago. Now, can I have an exact date for your big bang?

Not a date within 4400 years.

That is speculation.

You are totally right. It is as speculative as your theory.

Planting a full grown tree is silly.

Are you calling God's creation silly?

It also defeats the nature of the meaning of planting a garden.

It defeats YOUR meaning but not THE meaning. And clearly, you have NEVER planted a garden.

Besides there is also the event where a tree leaf was found after the flood. A week before this, no trees were there. Again, the fast growth was part of nature.

That or, the flood was local.

? You see spirits now?? Get help. By the way, men are men, and angels are angels. So you can't find some old shaman named Gabriel and claim he is a spirit and an archangel.

Not in today's culture and society. Fly back to 4401 they could have been dime a dozen.

Context. The men were so many years when their first son was recorded. The years consisted of days. You point cannot fly.

My point is that you should provide evidence for your claim. You cannot find evidence for your claim?

The bible is different! It will still be here after the world ceases to exist as we have known it, and the very stars of heaven. It is not stuck in the mud of the present state only, like the guppies of science!

Well, you are struggling to understand it in the current state of mud. It seems highly presumptuous that we, stuck here in our horribleness would be able to comprehend the holy writings of prestate change.

 

[Farinata]

Yes. ..God.

Well there you go ladies and gentlemen. If that doesn't convince the skeptics, then I don't know what will.

 

[Tiberius]

Yes. ..God.

Then he can come and tell me himself.

But as long as all you have is a book that you are just saying is the word of God, then I'm not going to believe you.