Different state past

[Elendur]

My claims are not designed to make things come true, but rather to note what facts actually exist.

False. Now watch carefully....If one considers God's word evidence regarding the unknown past state, then I am ready to talk about what the bible says. Notice you nor anyone else is making any bible case here? There is a reason. I have one.

When it comes to science and the lack of evidence for knowing what laws existed long ago...I have that too. Either way, I got er covered.

Can you define evidence?

 

[dad]

This is not evidence. There is nothing wrong with heat and friction, do you know what the temperature of the core of the earth is?

No, nor do you. I would guess about 80 degrees Fahrenheit. Quite pleasant. Nothing wrong with heat? Heck, it would have killed Adam in creation week with all the water and land moving. That is, IF our laws had of existed. It didn't. That tells us something.

There will be enough energy in the center of the earth to move continents around for billions of years.

Imagination run wild. The actual mechanism for the movements you do not know. They are predicted to move again big time soon. Leveling all mountains and moving every Island till they are no more. It sure will not be for the imaginary reasons you cite!

How about you present some evidence for a different state past?

How about you present some evidence for a same state past? You can't, that is why you do not. Victory. How sweet it is.

Sometimes I am not sure you know what "evidence" means.

Define it? Then show us evidence for Granny Bacteria mother of all living!!!?

Time to stop drinking your kool aid. Really.

 

[dad]

Can you define evidence?

I would say that evidence is relative. It also should be in context to what it is used for. The evidence of the bible prophesies is clear. Greece really did fall, and to exactly who it was supposed to. The captivity and destruction of Jerusalem really did come down...etc. So that sort of evidence is ideal.

Now we could look at indirect evidences also. The continents really did move, so Eden indeed may have been in Israel, and the ark also nearby.

We could look at science and the lack of evidence or proof of any sort that the laws of our past were the same. They might take some dust sized bit of evidence, like some process that is now going on, and then take a wild and crazy leap into infinity past, and claim that the same process existed and did wonders! Science really has misused and misapplied and misunderstood the whole concept of evidence.

 

[CabVet]

Yet no evidence for a different state past, neither from observations nor from the Bible. This is sad.

 

[Elendur]

I would say that evidence is relative. It also should be in context to what it is used for. The evidence of the bible prophesies is clear. Greece really did fall, and to exactly who it was supposed to. The captivity and destruction of Jerusalem really did come down...etc. So that sort of evidence is ideal.

Now we could look at indirect evidences also. The continents really did move, so Eden indeed may have been in Israel, and the ark also nearby.

We could look at science and the lack of evidence or proof of any sort that the laws of our past were the same. They might take some dust sized bit of evidence, like some process that is now going on, and then take a wild and crazy leap into infinity past, and claim that the same process existed and did wonders! Science really has misused and misapplied and misunderstood the whole concept of evidence.

That doesn't define the concept.

Again:

Can you define evidence?

 

[dad]

No, someone else did and you believe it with zero evidence to back it up.

There is zero evidence against it. The One that rose from the dead confirmed it. It is settled.

 

[CabVet]

There is zero evidence against it. The One that rose from the dead confirmed it. It is settled.

There is zero evidence against the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster confirms it. It is settled.

 

[dad]

But you didn't indicate the split happened at the flood and I haven't seen you bring up this "Peleg" before.

Fair enough. To be clear, I suspect that the nature change happened over a century after the flood. That means the flood was still former state.

Can you at least provide evidence for your understanding of how God created the garden of Eden? Also, it's shocking to me that you are limiting God's power to "hey, that hasn't been done like that before".

No, I am not limiting Him. I am deducing from His motis operendi and other known works and ways. He is a smart guy. To run around like a loony tune planting full grown trees in cartoon hyper speed the day the garden was planted is absurd.

Oh, I don't have to look in the Bible to know that planting seeds can yield plants, I love gardenning. I'm just not going to limit God's majestic work to simply him tossing some seeds hither and thither without ruling out the very real option of him planting full trees.

Well, common sense should enter in. Why reinvent the whole concept of planting?

I'm getting the feeling you are unable to provide evidence of fast growing vegetation in the Bible.

No. The garden was planted. We ate fruit that week. Noah sent out a bird after the flood from the ark. No trees. Again a week later...this time there was trees and the bird had evidence in beak.

Still, not a verse provided, I would note; just vague references to stories.
If you don't read the link, don't bother feigning a reply. Just say you "didn't bother reading it, neener, neener, neener", and we can go from there.

Rather than post a link, post a point. Maybe spell check it for good measure.

It pretty clearly clarifies your lack of understanding on this point. Key word? "Tebel".

No. Key concept is that no one else was left alive save only Noah & co. That is basic stuff.

Why do you have a compulsion to change the obvious?

Try something other than insane accusations like troll.

 

[Tiberius]

Still waiting for something more than unsupported claims, dad...

 

[dad]

Still waiting for something more than unsupported claims, dad...

For me I found support for the state of our past. For science, we wait for support for the assumed laws that they model the past from from. And all news from science is good news for me. Just today for example, I notice that they not only admit that plate tectonics is not understood, but find new evidence that it can't be the way they claimed!

"ScienceDaily (Mar. 22, 2012) — A layer of partially molten rock about 22 to 75 miles underground can't be the only mechanism that allows continents to gradually shift their position over millions of years, according to a NASA-sponsored researcher...

....
"However, the interesting result is that this layer does not exist everywhere, suggesting something other than melt is needed to explain the properties of the asthenosphere."

New light shed on wandering continents

 

[CabVet]

For me I found support for the state of our past. For science, we wait for support for the assumed laws that they model the past from from.

In other words, no evidence for a different state past. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[dad]

In other words, no evidence for a different state past. Thanks for clarifying.

All evidence agrees. Each new finding is in agreement that I have seen also. The bible and history agree. Your shrill denial is strange. I notice it is not accompanied by support for your required fantasy state past either. Why even talk?

 

[CabVet]

All evidence agrees. Each new finding is in agreement that I have seen also. The bible and history agree. Your shrill denial is strange. I notice it is not accompanied by support for your required fantasy state past either. Why even talk?

There is nothing, observed or not observed, that indicates that the laws of physics or natural laws were different in the past.

You are the one saying that the past somehow was "different", therefore the burden of proof resides with you. You are the one that has to provide evidence for the past being "different".

 

[dad]

There is nothing, observed or not observed, that indicates that the laws of physics or natural laws were different in the past.

That is in the eye of the beholder. Will you admit that the bible indicates a different nature if it is true?

You are the one saying that the past somehow was "different", therefore the burden of proof resides with you. You are the one that has to provide evidence for the past being "different".

The bible indicates that as well as some early pagan records, yes. The case is easy to prove. Why are you not making a counter case here??

Science claims that the present is the key to the past. They model the past accordingly. The burden of proof lies with these false prophets. That is what they are.


Within the bible, I can and do make a strong and irrefutable case for a different past.


Within science you cannot make a case for a same state past! Either way you lose.

How flippin sweet it is!

 

[CabVet]

All evidence agrees. Each new finding is in agreement that I have seen also. The bible and history agree. Your shrill denial is strange. I notice it is not accompanied by support for your required fantasy state past either. Why even talk?

Alright, you want evidence that the past was the same? Ok, here you go:

I am sure you don't know what that is so I will describe it for you. It is the Pinwheel Galaxy, located 21 million light years away. So, because it is 21 million light years away, what you are looking at is a photo of the light that this galaxy produced 21 million years ago. Got it? So, the motion of stars in this galaxy and millions of other distant star clusters follows the same laws of gravitation that we see in operation on earth today. The patterns of light and radiation from distant stars and supernovas are completely consistent with the laws of quantum mechanics and the half-lives of radioactive isotopes that we measure in earth laboratories today.

There are hundreds of stars in the 6,000 light year distance range from the earth, yet when we look at them, gravity, light and radiation are the same as what we see on earth today, again indicating that there was absolutely nothing different going on 6,000 years ago (or any other time). If, for some unknown reason, there ever was a "different state past" we would see it in the stars, they are our window to the past.

 

[CabVet]

Within the bible, I can and do make a strong and irrefutable case for a different past.

Give me the verse.

 

[AV1611VET]

If, for some unknown reason, there ever was a "different state past" we would see it in the stars, they are our window to the past.

QV 1142, ff

 

[dad]

Alright, you want evidence that the past was the same? Ok, here you go:



I am sure you don't know what that is so I will describe it for you. It is the Pinwheel Galaxy, located 21 million light years away.

Excellent. So now you offer a picture! Then you make an unsupported claim about distance!!!!! Prove it. Support it. I have seen pinwheels that were small at a county fair. You need to show yours is real far therefore real big.

So, because it is 21 million light years away, what you are looking at is a photo of the light that this galaxy produced 21 million years ago. Got it?

We get that you say this. So? You need to strongly support this before we can move on.

So, the motion of stars in this galaxy and millions of other distant star clusters follows the same laws of gravitation that we see in operation on earth today.

Oh? Can you prove that the pin wheel pattern is due to 'gravitation' as we know it on earth??? I mean really? What you want us to assume that all pinwheels patterns must be caused by physical only objects being under exact earth state gravity?? Bizarre. Evidence? I am willing to look at evidence if you had some.

The patterns of light and radiation from distant stars and supernovas are completely consistent with the laws of quantum mechanics and the half-lives of radioactive isotopes that we measure in earth laboratories today.

No. I doubt that. Easy to say though I suppose. Laws of QM? How is this pin wheel consistent with those? And if you think you know QM laws, why is there strangeness?

There are hundreds of stars in the 6,000 light year distance range from the earth, yet when we look at them, gravity, light and radiation are the same as what we see on earth today, again indicating that there was absolutely nothing different going on 6,000 years ago (or any other time).

Meaningless imaginary boundary. Prove that anything is 6000 light YEARS away? Science has not been here that long. I think you mean that if our laws and space extended that far then, it would take should take could take 6000 years to get here.

If, for some unknown reason, there ever was a "different state past" we would see it in the stars, they are our window to the past.

Nope. Not if there is a different state space!

Now, looking at your pinwheel galaxy, I notice that so called science says this


" It is thought that in the recent past (speaking in galactic terms) M101 underwent a near collision with another galaxy and the associated gravitational tidal forces caused the asymmetry"


Pinwheel Galaxy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now you invoke imaginary collisions not proven or known to explain what we see in the pinwheel galaxy!! That is pin headed.

 

[CabVet]

QV 1142, ff

AV, that post has no relation to what I am trying to show dad here. But FYI, your "hypothesis" of a universe being created as it is, with embedded age and history, is more logical to me than a past with different natural laws will ever be.

 

[CabVet]

Excellent. So now you offer a picture! Then you make an unsupported claim about distance!!!!! Prove it. Support it. I have seen pinwheels that were small at a county fair. You need to show yours is real far therefore real big.

Haha, so now you think all of astronomy is wrong and the stars are not where they are (or what they are). This is worse than I thought. Try this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax