Missionary Work in NY

[Qnts2]

I know I'm not. I've been part of the Messianic Movement since 1981. Seems to me I have a right to add my say to how things have been, and should be, defined.

But, then again... I keep forgetting I'm just a dumb Goy, so I have no say because I'm from the wrong bloodline.

Didn't somebody say something and "rocks" and "sons of Abraham"? I'd like to think I rate being at least a rock in God's economy... you know?


I'm not sure I'm even willing to go that far. If there is a change, it is only that the mask of hypocrisy has been dropped, and we are seeing anti-Gentile attitude for what it is. The Jewish believers were happy to have us around to help them jumpstart the congregations, but now they are starting to openly say we're only good enough to be Shabbat goyim and do the heavy lifting.

Which, by the way, I'm delighted to do the heavy lifting... as long as I am regarded as a real co-citizen in the community. I'm not some Gibeonite who lied his way into the camp.

At this point, I have been told that expecting full integration somehow violates the Torah, as well as setting me contrary to the goal of bringing Jewish people to Yeshua. Not to mention the personal barbs that I have received. I haven't had bad feelings towards Jews in the movement before, but I'm beginning to understand why some do.


Precisely.


Good summary of what we have been seeing.


<pssst!> I think he knows, already.

It is strange that you seem to have more of an issue about being Gentile.

On one thing you are accurate. We are and still are very happy to have Gentiles join in with us. Without the Gentiles who joined with us, we could not have Messianic Jewish synagogues. There are too few Messianic Jews to support Messianic synagogues.

But what you miss is that Messianic Judaism is not and never has been a denomination. It has always been an outreach. And because Messianic Judaism is an outreach to the Jewish community, saying Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, and it is the most Jewish thing to do to believe on the Jewish Messiah, and Jewish believers in Yeshua exist, it must remain a Jewish organization or it becomes a misrepresentation to the Jewish community.

The Gentiles who joined us, joined us because they cared about the Jewish people and wanted to help us share the truth of Jesus with the Jewish community.

What changed? Well, after posting the statements of purpose from all of the major Messianic Jewish organization on this board, and seeing so many Gentiles object to what they said, it is clear that many Gentiles on this board do not believe in Messianic Judaism. While claiming to be a part of Messianic Judaism, a couple have said that they want to change it.

Clearly some Gentiles are calling themselves a part of Messianic Judaism but don't like what Messianic Judaism is and want to change the purpose. They don't want it to be about sharing the gospel with the Jewish people as that would require giving up some perceived 'rights' for the sake of the Gospel. (Honestly, if anyone is serious about sharing the gospel, it does require giving up some perceived rights for the benefit of those whom you are sharing the gospel, for the sake of the cause).

So, many Gentiles who join in with Messianic Judaism share the vision. But those who want to change the vision are not really part of Messianic Judaism.

You want One Law, but Messianic Judaism is not One Law. You say Gentiles are treated as second class citizens, but that is your view. I don't see Gentiles as second class, but equal partners, if they have partnered with us in our purposes. And if they do not partner with us, that does not make Gentiles second class citizens, but Gentiles who have a different calling. If sharing the gospel with the Jewish people is not your purpose or calling, then in reality, you are not called into an organization whose purpose is exactly that.

I am not called into many organizations, but I don't join in with them and then insist that they change to suit what I want, or be unwilling myself to support what they are doing.

Is Messianic Judaism changing? No. Messianic Jews still want to share the gospel with their families and friends. It is still important to us.

There are plenty of groups which call themselves Messianic, who are One Law. I think they are in grave error. They match closer to what many on here want. But these groups are not Messianic Judaism. And if you join these groups, please study about who you are in Messiah first, as some will try to convince you that you are second class citizens if you are not Jewish or you do not keep the Mosaic law like the Jewish people. These are lies from the pits of hell.

What you do and you linage have no bearing on your status in Messiah and in the body of Messiah. Only Yeshua has a bearing on your status and only Gods view matters.

 

[visionary]

Do you see a difference between Messianic Jews and Messianic Judaism.?

 

[Qnts2]

I agree wholeheartedly with EtZion. Qnts2 you need to quit forcing your warped view that gentiles are out trying to change Messianic Judaism. We ARE NOT. It is changing of it's own volition and if this is of God you are fighting against Him. Is this what you want your legacy to be? And if this is not of God, why are you working so hard to fight against something that is already doomed. Either way, you are expending precious personal resources fighting a battle that is not yours to fight - it's Hashem's. I'm sure He'll have the outcome He desires.
The Torah was not given to the Jews for the Jews to own it. It's the Word of God, no one but Hashem can own it. The Jews were to take His words and learn from them and learn to live it out and thereby be able to be shining lights to the nations. And when the nations would come to you, you were to share God's Torah with them. We have come, in droves, and now, most of you guys want to hug tight that which isn't yours to keep. It was entrusted to you to pass on, not just to your sons and daughters but to all who wanted to know your God. Why are you not doing what God intended you to do? Instead, you all cry, "Mine! Mine!!" Then you make concessoins, but that only makes us second class citizens - ain't gonna work. The word says we are the commonwealth of Israel, we were afar off and have now been brought near. If the Torah is still alive for the Jew who believes in Yeshua then it is most alive and well for all who follow Yeshua as that is all He taught. We have embraced our elder brethren but the next move is up to you - so far all we've gotten for the most part are stingy, arrogant elder siblings. I'm gonna tell Abba on you soon!!!! lol.

Please do tell Abba on me, but be sure to ask Abba to change yourself also, as when you see a problem in another person, it is usually not just a problem with the other person. If the Lord wants to correct me, I welcome it.

Now, you make Messianic Judaism about keeping the Torah/Mosaic covenant, but that is not what it is about. Messianic Judaism is about Yeshua, the Messiah. It is about the New Covenant and becoming a part of this better covenant.

The so called Old Testament and the New Testament are actually one book. In that one book, God made different covenants with different people. We have been offered the New Covenant. It is different then the Mosaic covenant. To understand the Messiah, what He taught, what He was doing, or even the idea of the Messiah and what He would be, it takes the Tenakh. But, the Tenakh tells that in the age to come, the Messianic age, things will be different. A New Covenant.

So, when you try to make Messianic Judaism about the Mosaic covenant and keeping the law, that is in error. We are told to go out and preach the gospel about Yeshua. That is what Messianic Judaism is about. And that is what we desire to be faithful in sharing, and with Gods grace, we will continue.

 

[yedida]

It is strange that you seem to have more of an issue about being Gentile.

On one thing you are accurate. We are and still are very happy to have Gentiles join in with us. Without the Gentiles who joined with us, we could not have Messianic Jewish synagogues. There are too few Messianic Jews to support Messianic synagogues.

But what you miss is that Messianic Judaism is not and never has been a denomination. It has always been an outreach. And because Messianic Judaism is an outreach to the Jewish community, saying Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, and it is the most Jewish thing to do to believe on the Jewish Messiah, and Jewish believers in Yeshua exist, it must remain a Jewish organization or it becomes a misrepresentation to the Jewish community.

The Gentiles who joined us, joined us because they cared about the Jewish people and wanted to help us share the truth of Jesus with the Jewish community.

What changed? Well, after posting the statements of purpose from all of the major Messianic Jewish organization on this board, and seeing so many Gentiles object to what they said, it is clear that many Gentiles on this board do not believe in Messianic Judaism. While claiming to be a part of Messianic Judaism, a couple have said that they want to change it.

Clearly some Gentiles are calling themselves a part of Messianic Judaism but don't like what Messianic Judaism is and want to change the purpose. They don't want it to be about sharing the gospel with the Jewish people as that would require giving up some perceived 'rights' for the sake of the Gospel. (Honestly, if anyone is serious about sharing the gospel, it does require giving up some perceived rights for the benefit of those whom you are sharing the gospel, for the sake of the cause).

So, many Gentiles who join in with Messianic Judaism share the vision. But those who want to change the vision are not really part of Messianic Judaism.

You want One Law, but Messianic Judaism is not One Law. You say Gentiles are treated as second class citizens, but that is your view. I don't see Gentiles as second class, but equal partners, if they have partnered with us in our purposes. And if they do not partner with us, that does not make Gentiles second class citizens, but Gentiles who have a different calling. If sharing the gospel with the Jewish people is not your purpose or calling, then in reality, you are not called into an organization whose purpose is exactly that.

I am not called into many organizations, but I don't join in with them and then insist that they change to suit what I want, or be unwilling myself to support what they are doing.

Is Messianic Judaism changing? No. Messianic Jews still want to share the gospel with their families and friends. It is still important to us.

There are plenty of groups which call themselves Messianic, who are One Law. I think they are in grave error. They match closer to what many on here want. But these groups are not Messianic Judaism. And if you join these groups, please study about who you are in Messiah first, as some will try to convince you that you are second class citizens if you are not Jewish or you do not keep the Mosaic law like the Jewish people. These are lies from the pits of hell.

What you do and you linage have no bearing on your status in Messiah and in the body of Messiah. Only Yeshua has a bearing on your status and only Gods view matters.

That I agree with. So get out of God's way and let Him do what He is best at doing - bringing His own home. And that included Jews and gentiles. And let there be no divisions within His House. If one law is for the Jews under Yeshua then it belongs to the gentiles, if one law is for the gentiles under Yeshua then it belongs to the Jews. It's a two-way street, there can be no divisions. Even in our earthly homes and families, dinner is served at one time to all and all eat of the same nourishment. Abba is not slaving over a hot stove to feed all kinds of different meals to His kids, we all sit at the same table and enjoy the same feast.

 

[yedida]

Please do tell Abba on me, but be sure to ask Abba to change yourself also, as when you see a problem in another person, it is usually not just a problem with the other person. If the Lord wants to correct me, I welcome it.

Now, you make Messianic Judaism about keeping the Torah/Mosaic covenant, but that is not what it is about. Messianic Judaism is about Yeshua, the Messiah. It is about the New Covenant and becoming a part of this better covenant.

The so called Old Testament and the New Testament are actually one book. In that one book, God made different covenants with different people. We have been offered the New Covenant. It is different then the Mosaic covenant. To understand the Messiah, what He taught, what He was doing, or even the idea of the Messiah and what He would be, it takes the Tenakh. But, the Tenakh tells that in the age to come, the Messianic age, things will be different. A New Covenant.

So, when you try to make Messianic Judaism about the Mosaic covenant and keeping the law, that is in error. We are told to go out and preach the gospel about Yeshua. That is what Messianic Judaism is about. And that is what we desire to be faithful in sharing, and with Gods grace, we will continue.

We gentiles do the same, but you want to fault us and charge that we are trying to change something that we couldn't change even if we wanted to. But we don't want to change it, but we will be included in it.
You have a skewed view of what we are about. We have not gotten our eyes off Yeshua. We just have come to the realization that all He taught was the Torah. Was he not talking to us as well? Should we just ignore the gospels since they were originally spoken to the Jews? Should we just start reading from around Acts 9 or 10 because most of what came after then was primarily from Paul to the gentiles? If that's the case, most of that was to the gentiles and not the Jews, do you not want to own that part too? How should we divvy it up? Or is it all, from Gen 1 to Rev. 21 for all of us, and what is good for the one is intended for good for the other?
By continuing to say we are attempting to make changes when we are not is just short of flaming, so you need to stop. At this point I can no longer respond to you on this matter. It's not true so you're making a false accusation.

 

[Qnts2]

We gentiles do the same, but you want to fault us and charge that we are trying to change something that we couldn't change even if we wanted to. But we don't want to change it, but we will be included in it.
You have a skewed view of what we are about. We have not gotten our eyes off Yeshua. We just have come to the realization that all He taught was the Torah. Was he not talking to us as well? Should we just ignore the gospels since they were originally spoken to the Jews? Should we just start reading from around Acts 9 or 10 because most of what came after then was primarily from Paul to the gentiles? If that's the case, most of that was to the gentiles and not the Jews, do you not want to own that part too? How should we divvy it up? Or is it all, from Gen 1 to Rev. 21 for all of us, and what is good for the one is intended for good for the other?
By continuing to say we are attempting to make changes when we are not is just short of flaming, so you need to stop. At this point I can no longer respond to you on this matter. It's not true so you're making a false accusation.

All I can say is that you still don't understand what I am saying.

You keep bring up Mosaic law, and I am talking about the first purpose of Messianic Judaism, which is sharing the gospel with the Jewish people. If you keep insisting you have a right to keep the Mosaic law, you are talking past Messianic Judaism because that is not what we are about. You are talking about One Law Messianic, which is not what Messianic Judaism is.

I am once again posting the stated purposes of the 2 largest Messianic Judaism organizations. You will see that telling the Jewish people about the Messiah is at the top of both, but the Mosaic law is not even mentioned in or near the top.

The History of the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America

The Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA), founded in 1915, is the largest association of Messianic Jews and non-Jewish believers in Yeshua (Jesus) in the world. Its purpose is threefold:
• To testify to the large and growing number of Jewish people who believe that Yeshua (Hebrew for Jesus) is the promised Jewish Messiah and Savior of the world;
• To bring together Jews and non-Jews who have a shared vision for Jewish revival; and
• Most importantly, to introduce our Jewish brothers and sisters to the Jewish Messiah Yeshua.


The UMJC Core Values:

Yeshua, by virtue of His atoning death and bodily resurrection, has provided the atonement for our sins. The congregations of the UMJC are committed to bringing this message to our people so that they too may believe in Yeshua and find the peace with God promised by our prophets for Israel and all humanity.
At our founding in 1979, we listed five organizational objectives:

• To further the initiation, establishment, and growth of Messianic Jewish Congregations worldwide.
• To be a voice for Messianic Jewish Congregations and Messianic Judaism worldwide.
• To provide a forum for the discussion of issues relevant to Messianic Judaism and Messianic Jewish Congregations.
• To aid in the causes of our Jewish people worldwide, especially in Israel.
• To support the training of Messianic Leaders.

 

[etZion]

It is strange that you seem to have more of an issue about being Gentile.

On one thing you are accurate. We are and still are very happy to have Gentiles join in with us. Without the Gentiles who joined with us, we could not have Messianic Jewish synagogues. There are too few Messianic Jews to support Messianic synagogues.

But what you miss is that Messianic Judaism is not and never has been a denomination. It has always been an outreach. And because Messianic Judaism is an outreach to the Jewish community, saying Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, and it is the most Jewish thing to do to believe on the Jewish Messiah, and Jewish believers in Yeshua exist, it must remain a Jewish organization or it becomes a misrepresentation to the Jewish community.

If it was strictly an outreach, then there should be no reason to have a synagogue, hand out tracts and send them to Church... OH wait, no you would not do that, as there are doctrinal issues involved, which means it is more than an outreach, and the church will have them abandon being Jewish.

Remaining a Jewish organization is not a problem, treating gentiles as inferior is a problem.

The Gentiles who joined us, joined us because they cared about the Jewish people and wanted to help us share the truth of Jesus with the Jewish community.

Yup, and some of them never realized they would be shoved under the bus.

What changed? Well, after posting the statements of purpose from all of the major Messianic Jewish organization on this board, and seeing so many Gentiles object to what they said, it is clear that many Gentiles on this board do not believe in Messianic Judaism. While claiming to be a part of Messianic Judaism, a couple have said that they want to change it.

No, many have been part of certain organizations of MJ that have had to leave support for them, due to errors in theology, you don't see many gentiles trying to change the UMJC, what you will see is both jews and gentiles, pointing out the prejudices and errors found among these organizations.

Clearly some Gentiles are calling themselves a part of Messianic Judaism but don't like what Messianic Judaism is and want to change the purpose. They don't want it to be about sharing the gospel with the Jewish people as that would require giving up some perceived 'rights' for the sake of the Gospel. (Honestly, if anyone is serious about sharing the gospel, it does require giving up some perceived rights for the benefit of those whom you are sharing the gospel, for the sake of the cause).

We can share the gospel without treating others as inferior just fine, why you feel like it is necessary to treat gentiles as less, is contrary to scripture, and shines light on your obvious ethnicity issues.

So, many Gentiles who join in with Messianic Judaism share the vision. But those who want to change the vision are not really part of Messianic Judaism.

See above. I share the vision for sure, as many do, what many do not share is a prejudice view of the body, like you do and such organizations.

You want One Law, but Messianic Judaism is not One Law. You say Gentiles are treated as second class citizens, but that is your view. I don't see Gentiles as second class, but equal partners, if they have partnered with us in our purposes. And if they do not partner with us, that does not make Gentiles second class citizens, but Gentiles who have a different calling. If sharing the gospel with the Jewish people is not your purpose or calling, then in reality, you are not called into an organization whose purpose is exactly that.

No one needs to be part of a organization to follow a calling God has given them, whether to Jews or Gentiles, but an organization that fundamentally distorts the word of God should be held in the light, and those who support such organizations should consider whether or not they are supporting God. It is not a view if Gentiles are being treated as less, it is clear not only in your words, but in the statements of these organizations.

I am not called into many organizations, but I don't join in with them and then insist that they change to suit what I want, or be unwilling myself to support what they are doing.

Sure, neither are we, and many have left some of these organizations and will no longer support them. Instead we will support a solid scriptural view of Messianic Judaism and organizations that hold to scripture.

Is Messianic Judaism changing? No. Messianic Jews still want to share the gospel with their families and friends. It is still important to us.

Yup, so does everyone who wants to obey God, and are called with the ministry of evangelism, welcome to the club!

There are plenty of groups which call themselves Messianic, who are One Law. I think they are in grave error. They match closer to what many on here want. But these groups are not Messianic Judaism. And if you join these groups, please study about who you are in Messiah first, as some will try to convince you that you are second class citizens if you are not Jewish or you do not keep the Mosaic law like the Jewish people. These are lies from the pits of hell.

Did you mean to say the organization you are part of, as one would need to be Jewish to be considered an equal member, if not then you can only be a secondary member... and yes it is lies from the pits of hell, glad you are finally waking up.

What you do and you linage have no bearing on your status in Messiah and in the body of Messiah. Only Yeshua has a bearing on your status and only Gods view matters.

That's right, not the views of organizations, rather we should be concerned with what scripture teaches on the matter, this is why you teach in error.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

You will see that telling the Jewish people about the Messiah is at the top of both, but the Mosaic law is not even mentioned in or near the top.

The History of the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America

The Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA), founded in 1915, is the largest association of Messianic Jews and non-Jewish believers in Yeshua (Jesus) in the world. Its purpose is threefold:
• To testify to the large and growing number of Jewish people who believe that Yeshua (Hebrew for Jesus) is the promised Jewish Messiah and Savior of the world;
• To bring together Jews and non-Jews who have a shared vision for Jewish revival; and
• Most importantly, to introduce our Jewish brothers and sisters to the Jewish Messiah Yeshua.


The UMJC Core Values:

Yeshua, by virtue of His atoning death and bodily resurrection, has provided the atonement for our sins. The congregations of the UMJC are committed to bringing this message to our people so that they too may believe in Yeshua and find the peace with God promised by our prophets for Israel and all humanity.

At our founding in 1979, we listed five organizational objectives:

• To further the initiation, establishment, and growth of Messianic Jewish Congregations worldwide.
• To be a voice for Messianic Jewish Congregations and Messianic Judaism worldwide.
• To provide a forum for the discussion of issues relevant to Messianic Judaism and Messianic Jewish Congregations.
• To aid in the causes of our Jewish people worldwide, especially in Israel.
• To support the training of Messianic Leaders.

I think it's more than apparent that keeping up with the mainstream in MJism isn't really a central concern for many...and thus, it's why there have been so many battles (As well as others stepping away for times..or permantely) when it comes to seeing that what's the focus in mainstream groups is different from what other groups are doing/want to do.

Some camps are for Jews taking the helm/leading, whereas others say Gentiles should also be leading and showing allegiance to Christ by living fully as the Jews. Others say both Gentiles/Jews have extensive freedom when it comes to the Torah and that it should kept in grace, with Gentiles not feeling they have to become like the Jews to be acceptable to the Lord and Jews not feeling they have to forsake their cultural/ethnic heritage in order to work with Gentiles.

The list goes on..but all of that is said to say that there's truly alot of CIVIL war happening. And as much as it may be said that other changes in the movement (as it concerns Gentiles taking dominance within the MJish movement and commanding others to live as the Jews) is a natural progression that should not be resisted or fought against, it seems to be a bit of a double-standard when the groups doing so fight against the other groups whom they may feel are not as "Messianic" as they are in their own observance. How can one side say that things should be allowed to naturally in a certain direction without it being resisted---and yet simultaneously try to resist what it may disagree with rather than giving that same kind of freedom?

 

[Qnts2]

First of all, no one can make anyone do anything, false assumption.. Gentiles are being drawn to the Torah, we also are helping reach out to gentiles to return to obedience to God's ways, instead of their own ways.
You on the other hand, are trying to keep gentiles out and to keep them from receiving blessings from obedience, shame on you.


If that is the case then this organization does not represent or stand for the values that the Bible teaches, in fact that would make it diametrically opposed to the very words of scripture. Treating gentiles as less within the community of God is disgusting... This should be challenged and pointed out, so gentiles are not supporting a corrupted organization or ministry.

You first statement is your purpose, which is not shared by Messianic Judaism, but it the purpose of One Law Messianic organizations.

Messianic Judaisms first purpose is sharing the gospel with the Jewish people.

Two different purposes and therefore these groups must be different.

Now, why you would find it disgusting that Messianic Jewish people desire to say to the Jewish community, we are Jewish and believe on the Jewish Messiah is beyond me. Gentiles can not say, we are Jewish, because that would be deceptive. That we want to tell our own families about Yeshua is not against the scriptures, nor is it somehow hurting Gentile believers. If Gentile believers would like assistance telling their families about Yeshua, I am behind them 100%. I will help in any way I can and time permits.

 

[etZion]

You first statement is your purpose, which is not shared by Messianic Judaism, but it the purpose of One Law Messianic organizations.

Actually you are wrong, my purpose is to serve God in all ways called, that includes a community of believers who all have gifts and callings, within the proper teaching of the scriptures, it is in no way limited to one or two things. What I said above, was in response to a ridiculous claim you had made, nothing more and nothing less.

Messianic Judaisms first purpose is sharing the gospel with the Jewish people.

Right on, in fact, the Bible teaches that the Gospel to the Jew first!

Two different purposes and therefore these groups must be different.

You do not know the purpose of One Law, as is made clear by your claims.

Now, why you would find it disgusting that Messianic Jewish people desire to say to the Jewish community, we are Jewish and believe on the Jewish Messiah is beyond me.

Is that what I said was disgusting? Instead take the time to actually read my post, instead of spending it making strawman arguments.

Let me make it clear again, what is disgusting is how Gentiles are treated and viewed in light of these organizations, that is all.

Gentiles can not say, we are Jewish, because that would be deceptive. That we want to tell our own families about Yeshua is not against the scriptures, nor is it somehow hurting Gentile believers.

Never said it was. You are winning the strawman argument, keep going.

If Gentile believers would like assistance telling their families about Yeshua, I am behind them 100%. I will help in any way I can and time permits.

Cool, me too.

 

[Qnts2]

Actually you are wrong, my purpose is to serve God in all ways called, that includes a community of believers who all have gifts and callings, within the proper teaching of the scriptures, it is in no way limited to one or two things. What I said above, was in response to a ridiculous claim you had made, nothing more and nothing less.



Right on, in fact, the Bible teaches that the Gospel to the Jew first!



You do not know the purpose of One Law, as is made clear by your claims.



Is that what I said was disgusting? Instead take the time to actually read my post, instead of spending it making strawman arguments.

Let me make it clear again, what is disgusting is how Gentiles are treated and viewed in light of these organizations, that is all.



Never said it was. You are winning the strawman argument, keep going.



Cool, me too.

Ok, once again you are misreading what I said.

Messianic Judaism is first, Jewish believers trying to tell the Jewish community, Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and you can believe in Jesus, as a Jew.

When we say we are Jewish believers in the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua, that really means we are Jewish. There is no offense to Gentiles, or at least shouldn't be, but Gentiles are not full members of the MJAA because we are saying we are Jewish and believe in Jesus as a part of our message to the community.

If there was a group called Catholics for Jesus the Messiah, and the purpose was to share the gospel by Catholics with fellow Catholics, me, as a non-Catholic and never have been Catholic, if I am called, would assist them. But, I would not be a full member as I am not and never have been Catholic. I would not be a Catholic telling other Catholics the gospel. I would be a person who could come alongside of this group, and support them, and assist them.

It is as simple as that.

 

[visionary]

That is one narrow view.

 

[Qnts2]

That is one narrow view.

You might consider it a narrow view, but it is reflective of the view of the MJAA.

From the MJAA membership application brochure.

The MJAA is the largest association of
Messianic Jewish and Gentile believers in Yeshua
(Jesus) in the world. Established in 1915, the specific
and special ministry of the MJAA is threefold:
A To promote a clear and visible testimony to the
fact there is a large and growing movement of
Jewish people who have come to believe that
Yeshua (Jesus) is the Jewish Messiah and Savior
of the world.
A To bring together Jewish and Gentile people of
like faith and mind, with a shared vision for Jewish
revival.
A And, most importantly, to introduce Jewish people
to the Messiah Yeshua (Jesus).
The Necessity of
a Jewish Witness
After 1500 years of frequent persecution by so-called
“Christians,” along with a presentation of the Jewish
Gospel that made it appear non-Jewish, Jews have
come to believe that to follow Yeshua (Jesus) is to
leave the faith of their fathers and become non-Jews.
Consequently, it is critical to our witness that
Jewish people see and understand that the MJAA is
an authentic, Jewish organization whose affairs are
governed by Jewish people.
Why is Joining the
MJAA Im portant ?
A Because membership in the MJAA will put you in
touch with the prophetic Jewish revival through
our monthly letters, quarterly publications and
national and regional conferences.
A Because there is strength in our united testimony.
The more Messianic believers who are united in a
single body, the more powerful our collective testimony
will be for the Messiah. You will be joining
your voice with thousands of other Messianic Jews
and Gentiles in alliances in 19 other countries,
including Israel.
A Because the MJAA is your opportunity to be an
active participant in the prophetic Jewish revival.

 

[visionary]

You might consider it a narrow view, but it is reflective of the view of the MJAA.

From the MJAA membership application brochure.

and that makes it right?? ...NOT

It is not the Lord's commission, nor His purpose, nor His goal... They have failed to understand... and they will fail to accomplish what God had intended for them...

 

[etZion]

Ok, once again you are misreading what I said.

Actually you have consistently been the one misreading or were you making this statement while looking in a mirror, because if so, I understand.

Messianic Judaism is first, Jewish believers trying to tell the Jewish community, Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and you can believe in Jesus, as a Jew.

When we say we are Jewish believers in the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua, that really means we are Jewish. There is no offense to Gentiles, or at least shouldn't be, but Gentiles are not full members of the MJAA because we are saying we are Jewish and believe in Jesus as a part of our message to the community.

The question you have to ask, is that what God wants, by lining it up with scripture? Does God want a community of Jewish people, that keep gentiles at an arms length? You can have your organization, but most of us jews and gentiles alike who do not agree with the elitist club are looking for a biblical community, where both Jews and Gentiles can reach out to Jews and Gentiles, and specifically the gospel to the Jew first, but not just any community, a restoration to the community of the Apostles.

If there was a group called Catholics for Jesus the Messiah, and the purpose was to share the gospel by Catholics with fellow Catholics, me, as a non-Catholic and never have been Catholic, if I am called, would assist them. But, I would not be a full member as I am not and never have been Catholic. I would not be a Catholic telling other Catholics the gospel. I would be a person who could come alongside of this group, and support them, and assist them.

Are Catholics an ethinic group of people? Like Jews are, no. Try applying your idea with blacks and whites, but not simply as an outreach ministry but also a community, if you can't already see the problem, test it out.

It is as simple as that.

Nope.

 

[Qnts2]

and that makes it right?? ...NOT

It is not the Lord's commission, nor His purpose, nor His goal... They have failed to understand... and they will fail to accomplish what God had intended for them...

That does make it right. The same would be for my pretend Catholics for Jesus the Messiah group.

In this age, most evangelistic type of work is done by the 'natives'. For sharing the gospel with various different ethnic groups, they have found the those who are members of that ethnic group are more effective at sharing the gospel.

One of the issues in the Jewish community was that they attempted to kick out any Jewish person who came to believe on Jesus and then deny any really existed. In the 1970's and 1980's and even into the 1990's, many Jewish people did not know there were Jewish people who believed Jesus is the Jewish messiah. And truthfully, the Gentile Christians, although they sincerely wanted to see the Jewish people come to know their Messiah, were not highly effective.

So, we became visible. We are Jewish, and we believe on Yeshua, the prophesied Messiah.

 

[Qnts2]

Actually you have consistently been the one misreading or were you making this statement while looking in a mirror, because if so, I understand.



The question you have to ask, is that what God wants, by lining it up with scripture? Does God want a community of Jewish people, that keep gentiles at an arms length? You can have your organization, but most of us jews and gentiles alike who do not agree with the elitist club are looking for a biblical community, where both Jews and Gentiles can reach out to Jews and Gentiles, and specifically the gospel to the Jew first, but not just any community, a restoration to the community of the Apostles.



Are Catholics an ethinic group of people? Like Jews are, no. Try applying your idea with blacks and whites, but not simply as an outreach ministry but also a community, if you can't already see the problem, test it out.



Nope.

We do not keep Gentiles at arms length. Another silly accusation. If you wanted to go out an share the gospel with the Jewish people, I would welcome your assistance. But for truthful advertising in the Jewish community (as seen thru Jewish eyes), you are going to have to do something which makes it clear that you are a Gentile. If you go under the title of Messianic Judaism, the Jewish community will expect you to be Jewish, and if you are not Jewish, to them, you will have lied and tried to deceive them.

 

[visionary]

That does make it right. The same would be for my pretend Catholics for Jesus the Messiah group.

In this age, most evangelistic type of work is done by the 'natives'. For sharing the gospel with various different ethnic groups, they have found the those who are members of that ethnic group are more effective at sharing the gospel.

One of the issues in the Jewish community was that they attempted to kick out any Jewish person who came to believe on Jesus and then deny any really existed. In the 1970's and 1980's and even into the 1990's, many Jewish people did not know there were Jewish people who believed Jesus is the Jewish messiah. And truthfully, the Gentile Christians, although they sincerely wanted to see the Jewish people come to know their Messiah, were not highly effective.

So, we became visible. We are Jewish, and we believe on Yeshua, the prophesied Messiah.

While I have no problem with Jew talking to Jew about the Messiah Yeshua, I do have a problem with the exclusive attitude which is not fulfilling the commission, preach to all the world, and that means it is not a exclusive message just for Jews, nor is it one message for Gentiles and one message for Jews... as priests of God, the message is the same for all believers... and that is what is missing.

 

[yedida]

Okay, what would happen if I a stupid little gentile decides to host Pesach for the JEWISH gospel outreach? Would the believing Jews come? Would they be concerned about the menu? Be honest. Or would it be more beneficial to all concerned that I'm a Torah observant gentile believer and everything served will be as close to rabbinic kosher as I can manage (which would be just short of a kosherized kitchen, only one stove/oven, but separate dishes, cookware and utensils).
Yeah, it looks like my focus is on dietary laws but for those who observe them within Judaism require that and if they won't come to my Seder for fear of breaking Mosaic Laws then I cannot reach them for the gospel on this a most important memorial. Those Jews who have been reached and don't need to come to hear the gospel should be able to honestly confirm to these unbelieving friends of theirs that "yes, it's kosher, it's okay to come into this gentile's home. She has a calling from Hashem to meet you where you stand." We realize that no unbelieving Jew and most believing Jews would in no way come to a typical Christian easter meal!!
But, oh wait, we're out to change things, so it's okay to serve a ham for the seder, you want us to be us - gonna still come? The invitation is still open......we might even have a shrimp cocktail. Yum.......We really do want to reach out and touch all the Jews who have not heard the gospel. Bet we'll have a full house.....

 

[etZion]

While I have no problem with Jew talking to Jew about the Messiah Yeshua, I do have a problem with the exclusive attitude which is not fulfilling the commission, preach to all the world, and that means it is not a exclusive message just for Jews, nor is it one message for Gentiles and one message for Jews... as priests of God, the message is the same for all believers... and that is what is missing.

Right, what this person is trying to say, is that this is simply like a ministry to the poor, no community or doctrines involved, they are defining Messianic Judaism as simply Jews 4 Jesus...

The reality is such organizations and many people under the name Messianic Judaism attend congregations, which means they attend and are part of a community, not just a tract giving club. The moment we start defining community is where the problem comes in, is the community exclusive, only whites allowed... No one has a problem at all with Jews bringing the gospel to Jews or gentiles bringing the gospel to Jews, a worthless debate if this is at all the debate, which it is not, and never has been, this debate is over prejudice and ethnic standing.