eclipsenow said in post #35:
You're already beginning to change the basic gospel.
The basic gospel is that in order for us to be saved we must believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the human/divine Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36, 1 John 2:23), and that he died on the Cross for our sins and rose from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:46-47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).
But note that the Bible doesn't teach OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved). Instead, the Bible shows that initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only "if" they continue in the faith unto the end (Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to depart from the faith, to no longer believe, to commit apostasy (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 Timothy 4:3-4, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Hebrews 3:12, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6, 2 Timothy 2:12b, Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 10:38-39, Matthew 24:9-13).
Also, even if they do continue in the faith, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they also patiently continue unto the end in obedience and good works (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Philippians 2:12b, 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Revelation 22:14, 2 Peter 1:10-11, Hebrews 6:10-12, Philippians 3:11-14, 1 John 2:17b) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).
Also, even if they do continue in faith and good works, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they also continue to repent from every sin that they might commit unto the end (Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Matthew 7:22-23, Galatians 5:19-21), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to commit unrepentant sin, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Luke 12:45-46, 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13, 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).
Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus Christ's death for our sins (Mark 16:16, 1 Peter 3:21, Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38), and there's no assurance that all initially saved people will choose to do that (cf. Acts 22:16a).
Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they partake of the divine flesh and blood of communion (John 6:53, Matthew 26:26-28, 1 Corinthians 10:16, 1 Corinthians 11:27-30), and there's no assurance that all initially saved people will choose to do that (cf. John 6:60,66).
Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they forgive others (Matthew 6:14-15), and there's no assurance that all initially saved people will choose to do that (Matthew 18:21-35).
Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they do all that they can (Romans 12:18) to be reconciled to everyone whom they've ever wronged and who could still be holding a grudge against them (Matthew 5:23-26, cf. Acts 24:16), and there's no assurance that all initially saved people will choose to do that.
Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they help Christians in need (Matthew 25:34-46), and there's no assurance that initially saved people will always choose to do that.
Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they provide for their families (1 Timothy 5:8), and there's no assurance that initially saved people will always choose to do that.
Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't commit the unforgivable sin, which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29). An example of blaspheming the Holy Spirit is saying that an act performed by the power of the Holy Spirit (e.g. Matthew 12:28a) is performed by Satan (Mark 3:22-30). There's no assurance that initially saved people will never choose to say that (cf. 1 Corinthians 14:39b, 1 Thessalonians 5:19).
Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't remove words from the text of the book of Revelation and then publish the altered text as if it were the original, without repentance (Revelation 22:19). There's no assurance that initially saved people will never choose to do that (cf. 2 Corinthians 4:2).
Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't worship the Antichrist and his image, and receive his mark on their forehead or hand (Revelation 14:9-12). There's no assurance that initially saved people will never choose to do that (1 Timothy 4:1).
Initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they continue in God's goodness unto the end (Romans 11:20-22), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Luke 12:45-46).
Initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they overcome unto the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Revelation 21:7-8).
-
All this is said not to engender any unhealthy fear in believers, but the healthy fear which all believers are supposed to have (e.g. Romans 11:20-22).
Believers are commanded to fear God (1 Peter 2:17, Luke 12:5, Hebrews 12:28-29, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Ephesians 5:21, Acts 9:31). They must remain in fear of being cut off the same as unbelievers if they don't continue in God's goodness (Romans 11:20-22, Luke 12:45-46). They must work out their own ultimate salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12b, 1 Peter 1:17, Romans 2:6-8), knowing the terror of the coming judgment of believers (2 Corinthians 5:10-11), at the second coming of Jesus, when some believers will end up losing their salvation because of such things as unrepentant sin (Luke 12:45-46, Hebrews 10:26-29), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a), or apostasy (Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 6:4-8).
Satan would love to deceive us into not having this fear of God, for he knows that it's the lack of a fear of God which keeps people in wickedness (Psalms 36:1, Psalms 10:13), and that it's by the fear of God that people depart from wickedness (Proverbs 16:6b, Proverbs 14:27, Proverbs 3:7). And Satan can make his deceptions appear as if they're on the side of good (2 Corinthians 11:14), when in fact his deceptions reject the sound doctrine of the Bible (1 Timothy 4:1, 2 Timothy 4:3-4) when the entire Bible is taken into consideration, instead of taking just a verse by itself and trying to misapply it (e.g. Matthew 4:6).
Some believers mistakenly think that they shouldn't have any fear of God, because they misunderstand, for example, 1 John 4:18 and 2 Timothy 1:7.
It's only if saved people perfectly love God that they won't misbehave (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24) and so won't have any fear of any impending punishment from God for any misbehavior (1 John 4:18). But if they become so wicked that they lose all their fear of God (Psalms 36:1, Psalms 10:13), and so continue to misbehave without any repentance, then they do need to fear impending punishment from God in the form of a temporal chastisement (Hebrews 12:6). And if they refuse to repent even after receiving temporal chastisement (Revelation 3:19, Revelation 2:21), then they need to fear God's ability to ultimately cast them into hell (Luke 12:5) for their unrepentant misbehavior (Hebrews 10:26-29, Luke 12:45-46).
When 2 Timothy 1:7 says that God hasn't given believers the spirit of fear, the original Greek word (deilia, G1167) means "timidity", and the context means that believers aren't to be timid before men (cf. Proverbs 28:1) out of some shame about the gospel (2 Timothy 1:8a) or out of some fear of suffering affliction from men for preaching the gospel (2 Timothy 1:8b, Luke 12:4, Hebrews 13:6).
So 2 Timothy 1:7 means that God hasn't given believers the spirit of the fear of men (Proverbs 29:25, Matthew 10:28a). God has given believers the Spirit of the fear of God (Matthew 10:28b, Isaiah 11:2, Romans 11:20-22, Philippians 2:12b, 1 Peter 1:17, Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 10:26-29, Hebrews 12:28-29, 2 Corinthians 7:1, 1 Peter 2:17, Ephesians 5:21, Acts 9:31). But believers can nonetheless wrongly employ their free will to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), and so they can wrongly lose their fear of God (Romans 11:20-22).
-
All this is said not to engender any despair in believers, but the healthy, close-clinging to the person of Jesus Christ himself, which all believers must continue in (John 15:4-6). For while God makes it possible for initially saved people to do the right thing (Philippians 2:13) toward their ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Philippians 2:12b, Matthew 7:21), this is only possible so long as they continue to abide in Jesus Christ; on their own, apart from Jesus, they can't do anything good (John 15:4-5).
Also, it should be pointed out that Jesus isn't a hard taskmaster; he won't ever give believers more work to do for him than they can easily bear (Matthew 11:28-30). So if believers ever get stressed out that Jesus is asking them to do too much, it's not Jesus asking them to do whatever is stressing them out (cf. Luke 10:40-42). They need to take a step back and ask Jesus to show them what particular work he is actually asking them as individuals to do (Mark 13:34, Romans 12:6-8).
---
Also, with regard to the ideas of initial salvation and ultimate salvation, it should be pointed out that they don't have to be explicitly referred to in scripture as "initial salvation" and "ultimate salvation" in order for them to be true and supported by scripture, just as, for example, the ideas of the unity of God and the Trinity don't have to be explicitly referred to in scripture as "the unity" and "the Trinity" in order for them to be true and supported by scripture.
In the Bible itself, the difference between initial salvation and ultimate salvation is that initial salvation is by faith without works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:1-5), whereas ultimate salvation is by both faith and works of faith (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Philippians 2:12b, 2 Corinthians 5:9, 2 Peter 1:10-11, Hebrews 6:10-12, Philippians 3:11-14, Hebrews 5:9, Revelation 22:14) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law).
Also, in the Bible itself, the difference between initial salvation and ultimate salvation is that initial salvation is the salvation that Christians have now (Ephesians 2:5) in their mortal physical bodies, whereas ultimate salvation is that salvation which is ready to be revealed in the last time (1 Peter 1:5) and is always drawing nearer (Romans 13:11b), that salvation which Christians are still hoping for (1 Thessalonians 5:8b, Romans 8:23-25, Mark 10:30b) and which Jesus Christ will bring to obedient Christians at his second coming (Hebrews 9:28, Hebrews 5:9), when he will resurrect or change their mortal physical bodies into immortal physical bodies (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16) just like the immortal physical body he obtained at his resurrection (Philippians 3:20-21, Luke 24:39, 1 John 3:2, Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:11-14).
Initial salvation, being born again (John 3:3,7, 1 Peter 1:23-25, 1 Peter 2:2), is both present salvation and a contract for ultimate salvation, just as the birth of an infant is both present life and a contract for life as an adult. Just as children can know that they're actually alive, so initially saved people can know that they're actually saved. And just as an infant can't "give back" his being born, so a born again person can't "give back" his being born again, his being initially saved. But just as there's no assurance that children will reach adulthood, so there's no assurance that initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation. Just as there are conditions placed on children, like not running into traffic and not drinking the Drano under the sink, if they're to reach adulthood, so there are conditions placed on the born-again, the initially saved, if they're to obtain ultimate salvation (which conditions were listed at the start of this post).