Scottish Independence

[Celtic D]

The person I was referring too is always expressing anti-englishness, so pardon me for not wishing to be civil towards them.

Ever seen the wee bit in the Bible about turning the other cheek!

 

[Montalban]

Scotland also has STV

 

[Paradoxum]

5 million people is hardly a tribe. There is a certain scale where independence just becomes ridiculous, but it's far below 5 million people. Different regions benefit from different styles of government. Ireland and Germany, for example, have completely different economies, so it is crazy for the two countries to have the same tax rate imposed on them.

My point isn't that Scotland is a tribe, but that if we are going to start breaking up countries, why don't we do it properly.

There aren't five million of you though. And there's not a history of the conservative party oppressing the lib dems. You shouldn't underestimate how high feelings still run in Scotland over their historical treatment at the hands of the English.

They shouldn't care what happened in the past. Should the English hate the Germans, French, Scottish, Italians, Americans, etc, for things that happened in the past, or should we move forward now that those things are mostly or even totally beyond living memory.

 

[Celtic D]

Scotland also has STV

Actually no Scotland doesn't, the Central Belt has STV

I do wish people who don't live in Scotland would stop telling us what we do and don't have, think we might just know a little bit more about the subject than you, would you not agree

 

[GeminiMoon]

Ever seen the wee bit in the Bible about turning the other cheek!

Easier said than done i'm afraid.

 

[Celtic D]

I base it from the views of all the Scottish people I know, which is a lot.

Oh yes, how many exactly???

 

[GeminiMoon]

Oh yes, how many exactly???

A lot.

 

[Celtic D]

A lot.

Yes, you've said that already, I would like a numerical value - thanks

 

[GeminiMoon]

Yes, you've said that already, I would like a numerical value - thanks

I don't have exact numbers.

 

[Celtic D]

I don't have exact numbers.

A rough number will suffice - thanks

 

[GeminiMoon]

A rough number will suffice - thanks

I know around 30-50.

 

[Celtic D]

I know around 30-50.

And in what capacity do you know this 30-50?

 

[Hexa]

England should get in there first and vote for independance from Scotland.

 

[GeminiMoon]

England should get in there first and vote for independance from Scotland.

Agreed

 

[Cromulent]

My point isn't that Scotland is a tribe, but that if we are going to start breaking up countries, why don't we do it properly.

You can argue it the other way as well though. If we're going to have conglomerations of countries, why shouldn't Ireland be ruled from London, Belgium from Paris, the Netherlands, Austria and Poland from Berlin?

Ireland is a small country, and as such is always in danger of being left at the fringes of larger political unions, like the EU. I know what that feels like, so I know how many Scots feel about being in a similar situation with regard to the UK.

As I have said before, I think five million people is comfortably above teh cut-off point where you have to allow self-determination, seeing as countries like Slovenia work just fine.

They shouldn't care what happened in the past. Should the English hate the Germans, French, Scottish, Italians, Americans, etc, for things that happened in the past, or should we move forward now that those things are mostly or even totally beyond living memory.

I'm not saying it's right to hate the English, I'm just saying feelings still run high.

 

[genestealerbroodlord]

I would like to see an independant Scotland and would like Scotland to eventually become a State, within a United States of Europe, in a similar way to how California or Alaska are States within the USA.

I wan't Scotland to be an equal partner with all other States within Europe and not just be treated as a Shire of England. (This is not Englands fault, by the way)

I would like to add that I love the English. I have a particular place in my heart for Yorkshire folks, But think the English are a lovely people in general. I just feel both countries would benefit from being independant of each other.

 

[Paradoxum]

You can argue it the other way as well though. If we're going to have conglomerations of countries, why shouldn't Ireland be ruled from London, Belgium from Paris, the Netherlands, Austria and Poland from Berlin?

I would go further and say we should all be ruled from Brussels. I'm for the ultimate unity of the world.

Ireland is a small country, and as such is always in danger of being left at the fringes of larger political unions, like the EU. I know what that feels like, so I know how many Scots feel about being in a similar situation with regard to the UK.

But Ireland is also given a bigger voice worldwide by participating in the EU.

I would like to see an independant Scotland and would like Scotland to eventually become a State, within a United States of Europe, in a similar way to how California or Alaska are States within the USA.

I would be fine with Scotland becoming an independent state in the EU, but only once the EU is more united. It still a few decades away because the EU if fully united.

 

[Cromulent]

You see, I'm far from happy with the EU as it is. I don't buy into the Daily Mail hysteria about the EU causing cancer and tarnishing Diana's memory, but I think far too much power is centralised. I'm perfectly happy with the EU as a trading bloc, a free travel area, and even as a group of countries who try and support each other economically, but central control from Brussels doesn't work for small nations. The EU would be dominated by Germany, France, Spain, Italy, and the UK. Ireland's economic success was built on low corporation tax and a knowledge economy, which led to many multinationals locating their European headquarters here. In a gigantic democratic EU superstate, the big countries aren't going to sacrifice their own business in order to benefit Ireland, or Greece, or Estonia, or Portugal.

Large central governments are generally bad for peripheral regions. We've seen that historically even in the UK, with the huge emphasis on London and the South-East from Westminster. Even within Ireland there is a huge bias towards Dublin, as it contains about a third of the Irish population.

And Ireland, and other small nations, could still have a voice in the EU as a political alliance, as opposed to as a massive nation state. Our economy and social policy don't need to be governed by Brussels for that.

 

[Paradoxum]

You see, I'm far from happy with the EU as it is. I don't buy into the Daily Mail hysteria about the EU causing cancer and tarnishing Diana's memory, but I think far too much power is centralised. I'm perfectly happy with the EU as a trading bloc, a free travel area, and even as a group of countries who try and support each other economically, but central control from Brussels doesn't work for small nations. The EU would be dominated by Germany, France, Spain, Italy, and the UK. Ireland's economic success was built on low corporation tax and a knowledge economy, which led to many multinationals locating their European headquarters here. In a gigantic democratic EU superstate, the big countries aren't going to sacrifice their own business in order to benefit Ireland, or Greece, or Estonia, or Portugal.

Large central governments are generally bad for peripheral regions. We've seen that historically even in the UK, with the huge emphasis on London and the South-East from Westminster. Even within Ireland there is a huge bias towards Dublin, as it contains about a third of the Irish population.

And Ireland, and other small nations, could still have a voice in the EU as a political alliance, as opposed to as a massive nation state. Our economy and social policy don't need to be governed by Brussels for that.

But if there is one economy I would assume the money would be shared more, so it doesn't matter if one country makes less than another. Each individual state could still be fairly free with its economy.

 

[Cromulent]

But if there is one economy I would assume the money would be shared more, so it doesn't matter if one country makes less than another. Each individual state could still be fairly free with its economy.

That's what you would hope for, but the only way I could see that going would be for the big central countries to vote to keep the business with them. Already we're seeing France and Germany putting intense pressure on Ireland to raise our corporation tax rate, as they feel it is hurting their economies if multinationals choose to locate in Ireland.