Does the bible teach that there is a hell of eternal torment for unbelievers?

[Timothew]

In case people don't follow this. One poster has said that one word has one meaning in the context of one verse.

Why? Because it does.

Why? Because it does.

Why? Because it does.

That's circular logic.

The only support for the assertion is the assertion itself repeated.

I have asked how this is reconciled with other verses and so far no reasons have been given.

And you?
Death is not really death, it's not death because it isn't death.
Because it's notnotnotnotnotnot.

How is it reconciled to the other verses? Check the first post.
There are 1000s of verses in the bible that support this.
I'm trying to be gentle with you guys, There was a time when I couldn't see this either. Just read the bible for what is written, without rearranging the definitions of common words. 1 Thessalonians 1:9, these pay the penalty of eternal destruction. Surely destruction means destruction and not a permanent state of UNdestruction in Hell. Look and see!
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed. . .How do you enter life? By getting eternal life from Christ. What's the oppposite of entering life? Entering death, of course.
If you don't like what I'm saying, simply ignore it and go away. This is my thread, not yours.
But I urge you, read the words in the bible. Don't just read your existing beliefs into the bible. When I say "my dog died last week" you know what I mean. He perished. So when John 3:16 says "all who believe in him will not perish but will have eternal life", you should know what theat means too.
We perish without Christ, but we can obtain eternal life in Christ. The choice is set out. Without Christ we will perish, we die, dead. No eternal life. But with Christ, we can have eternal life. This is not some secret coded message about hell. This is life and death, real life and real death.
I don't know why you can't see it.

 

[Montalban]

And you?
Death is not really death, it's not death because it isn't death.
Because it's notnotnotnotnotnot.

I've not made that argument. I've set out reasons, such as the Jews choosing the Greek word they thought best represented the place

As I noted earlier, I could be wrong in my reasoning, but I've offered reasons.

I've not offered circular logic. Your post offers circular logic.

You even offer it again, appealing for people to read it as it is written.

If your best argument is endlessly repeating a logica fallacy, and ignoring what people write then so be it.

 

[Zaac]

Death may have different meanings in different contexts, but one thing death can't mean is living forever in torment.

There's that James 3 selfish ambition on display again marking wisdom not from God.

Death means what God says it means. And God says and examples eternal punishment in death. You don't have to like it.

Living forever is the complete opposite of death.

Jesus says in John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

For the folks who want to listen and understand in accordance with God's word, know that death(eternal separation from God) is the complete opposit of eternal life (eternity in the presence of the One Who is the Life).

For the folks who want to understand God's word, do not let false teaching confuse you into thinking that death and eternal punishment are the same. they are not. Eternal punishment comes in death. They may be difficult for some to grasp because they don't want there to be an eternal punishment. But it is what it is.

If the idea of hell had never been invented, you would never think to interpret "death" as "never dying".

Hell is not an idea to be invented. And Biblical death is separation from God. And you can't have eternal punishment without eternal punishees. Eternally unforgiven sin will receive God's eternal punishment in death(separation from God).

 

[Zaac]

In case people don't follow this. One poster has said that one word has one meaning in the context of one verse.

Why? Because it does.

Why? Because it does.

Why? Because it does.

That's circular logic.

The only support for the assertion is the assertion itself repeated.

I have asked how this is reconciled with other verses and so far no reasons have been given.

And you won't get any because all of God's word has to be either changed, ignored or thrown away to make the assertion correct.

Don't attempt to reason with folks over words. This is personal as it is for a lot of folks who have lost loved ones of whom they are not sure if they went to heaven or hell.

People build up a level of guilt that they simply cannot deal with if what God's word says is true. And to alleve that guilt, they have to build their own "truth" that allows them to exist and not feel guilty about the eternity of the loved one who has died.

 

[Tariki]

Don't attempt to reason with folks over words. This is personal as it is for a lot of folks who have lost loved ones of whom they are not sure if they went to heaven or hell.

Exactly, yet apparently He has chosen "words" as His main source of communication.

I would say that those "folk" who think as you describe are beginning to realise that there is a Living Word that also speaks. For them, compassion is beginning to break down the hard shell of the ego-self.

Hopefully, one day you yourself may begin to listen.

 

[Montalban]

Exactly, yet apparently He has chosen "words" as His main source of communication.

He didn't just choose words. By being human people could see God and 'experience' God.

 

[Tariki]

He didn't just choose words. By being human people could see God and 'experience' God.

Maybe I am far too obscure. In my own way I was saying the same.

My "apparently" was directed at the way others here would seem to think, given the tone of their posts.

 

[Timothew]

Hell is not an idea to be invented. And Biblical death is separation from God. And you can't have eternal punishment without eternal punishees. Eternally unforgiven sin will receive God's eternal punishment in death(separation from God).

I understand that you and Montalban disagree with me.
You are free to disagree. Goodbye.

 

[Timothew]

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[AV1611VET]

Does the bible teach that there is a hell of eternal torment in store for unbelievers?

Yes.

Mark 9:49a For every one shall be salted with fire,

It is generally supposed that our Lord means, that as salt preserves the flesh with which it is connected from corruption, so this everlasting fire, to pur to asbeston, this inconsumable fire, will have the property, not only of assimilating all things cast into it to its own nature, but of making them inconsumable like itself.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It's a mistake to base one's belief about G-d's judgment and the reality of hell on one particular verse or even on a few hand picked passages which seem to validate one's belief on the issue (while ignoring and discarded the other passages on the issue that prove otherwise). If we are to understand what will happen to those who perish without Christ than we must take into account the whole counsel of G-d and the Scriptures as a whole. Scripture is quite clear that hell is eternal punishment and torment. Jesus Himself said so several times throughout His ministry. I tend to believe what He said and whatever else is written in the Scriptures about eternal punishment for unbelievers and eternal life for those who accepted Christ before their mortal death.

Satanic Rebellion Crushed

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[a] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The Great White Throne Judgment

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[b] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[c] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:7-15, NKJV (emphasis added)

BibleGateway.com

 

[Timothew]

Satanic Rebellion Crushed

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[a] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.The Great White Throne Judgment

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[b] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[c] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:7-15, NKJV (emphasis added)

BibleGateway.com

If any think they know all, or that they have exhausted the Divine Word; or that what they set out to learn is only to be in addition to what they already know, instead of sometimes in substitution for it, then we shall be of little service to them: and they need not follow us any further.

I like this quote from E. W. Bullinger.

Bible study is as much discarding what is shown to be false from our collections of beliefs as it is learning new truth from the scripture.
If a person is unwilling to set aside their traditional belief long enough to investigate what the bible says, they will never grow in their knowledge of God.

Romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death. Evidentally you disagree with this, and post Revelation 20:7-15 as proof that men are tormented instead of merely losing their life as a result of sin. Setting aside what you or I believe, look at what the words of the bible says in Romans 6:23 and Rev 20:7-15.
We know from Romans 6:23 that the wages of sin is death.
Rev 20:9 And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
Is someone who has been devoured by fire from God still around to enjoy eternal torment? Clearly not. Remember, this is my my opinion or yours, it is what the bible says. It is from the passage you presented.
Look at Rev 20:12. The book that is opened is the book of LIFE. The thing we are talking about is whether someone's name is written in the book of LIFE. The opposite of life is death, so we are discussing whether someone receives eternal life or death.

I'm running out of time, look at the rest of your passage. You will see that it does not contradict Romans 6:23. It actually confirms it. The lake of fire is the second DEATH. This is the same idea as Romans 6:23.

I wish I had more time to discuss this.

Tim

 

[Zaac]

I like this quote from E. W. Bullinger.

Bible study is as much discarding what is shown to be false from our collections of beliefs as it is learning new truth from the scripture.
If a person is unwilling to set aside their traditional belief long enough to investigate what the bible says, they will never grow in their knowledge of God.

Romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death. Evidentally you disagree with this, and post Revelation 20:7-15 as proof that men are tormented instead of merely losing their life as a result of sin. Setting aside what you or I believe, look at what the words of the bible says in Romans 6:23 and Rev 20:7-15.


I'm running out of time, look at the rest of your passage. You will see that it does not contradict Romans 6:23. It actually confirms it. The lake of fire is the second DEATH. This is the same idea as Romans 6:23.

Interesting. We have a case of "I like what the men say who affirm the wrong thing. Yet I will discard the FULL COUNSEL of the word that affirms GOD's position that is the opposite of the position I take".

The devil loves pride. And that's why he is always able to sneak his demonic wisdom in James 3 style.

We know from Romans 6:23 that the wages of sin is death.
Rev 20:9 And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
Is someone who has been devoured by fire from God still around to enjoy eternal torment? Clearly not. Remember, this is my my opinion or yours, it is what the bible says. It is from the passage you presented.
Look at Rev 20:12. The book that is opened is the book of LIFE. The thing we are talking about is whether someone's name is written in the book of LIFE. The opposite of life is death, so we are discussing whether someone receives eternal life or death.

More time is not needed. It is obvious that there is not an understanding of Scripture. It is obvious that there is no grasp that what happens in man's whisper of life is not the same once that man enters eternity.

Once people grab hold of WHO is the LIFE, perhaps things will make better sense.

 

[Zaac]

It's a mistake to base one's belief about G-d's judgment and the reality of hell on one particular verse or even on a few hand picked passages which seem to validate one's belief on the issue (while ignoring and discarded the other passages on the issue that prove otherwise). If we are to understand what will happen to those who perish without Christ than we must take into account the whole counsel of G-d and the Scriptures as a whole. Scripture is quite clear that hell is eternal punishment and torment. Jesus Himself said so several times throughout His ministry. I tend to believe what He said and whatever else is written in the Scriptures about eternal punishment for unbelievers and eternal life for those who accepted Christ before their mortal death.

Satanic Rebellion Crushed

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[a] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The Great White Throne Judgment

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[b] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[c] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:7-15, NKJV (emphasis added)

BibleGateway.com

EXCELLENT!!!

 

[Zaac]

I understand that you and Montalban disagree with me.
You are free to disagree. Goodbye.

What is it with folks and this "ME, ME, ME" stuff? Ain't nobody trying to agree or disagree with you. We're just aligning ourselves with the ONE WHO comes first.

HE disagrees with you.

 

[Timothew]

What is it with folks and this "ME, ME, ME" stuff? Ain't nobody trying to agree or disagree with you. We're just aligning ourselves with the ONE WHO comes first.

HE disagrees with you.

Not according to His Word.

 

[Zaac]

Not according to His Word.

Yes, according to His word. You say there is no eternal punishment. The very word of God says there is.

Matthew 25:46
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.


GOD is right and all those against what HE SAYS are wrong.

 

[visionary]

If God kills your body and soul with no hope of resurrection... Is that not forever... now throw in the eternal fire... dead is dead with no life in them in any form.

 

[visionary]

End result will be ashes... the fire may burn for eternity... but the wicked and Satan are reduced to ashes...

Malachi 4:3
Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.

Ezekiel 28:18
By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching.

 

[someguy14]

Let me throw this into the mix.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with hishttp://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/2-thessalonians/1.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-a mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire takinghttp://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/2-thessalonians/1.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-b vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;