Does the bible teach that there is a hell of eternal torment for unbelievers?

[Montalban]

Folks believe in eternal torment in hell-fire. That doesn't make eternal torment the truth.

Absolutely. And you just believe your truth because you do because you do because you do.

I look to 2,000 years of opinion on this. The opinion over the life of the church. It's consistantly supported eternal hell-fire.

Some people however wish to make themselves their own personal pope and pronounce infallibly their own opinion, based on their own authority. And no matter of argument will sway them, even if it's pointed out that it rests on circular logic.

 

[Timothew]

Absolutely. And you just believe your truth because you do because you do because you do.

I look to 2,000 years of opinion on this. The opinion over the life of the church. It's consistantly supported eternal hell-fire.

Some people however wish to make themselves their own personal pope and pronounce infallibly their own opinion, based on their own authority. And no matter of argument will sway them, even if it's pointed out that it rests on circular logic.

That settles it for you. What is the sin of pride in the title to your post? Do you mean the pride you feel for your denomination? I forgive you. Your denomination has been around for about 1000 years so that is something to be proud of. The rest of us Christians must read the letters of the apostles and old testament prophets to find out what they meant on a particular topic. Have you investigated the very early church? There were many other views besides eternal torment. There have always been those who rejected the dogma of eternal torment throughout the 2000 year history of the churches.

Saying that your church supports your view is really saying very little. You might as well say "those who agree with me are in agreement with me."
Talk about circular logic!

 

[good brother]

I agree, the kingdom of God is eternal life. Not entering the kingdom of God is to not have eternal life. Not having life is having death. So all the scriptures work together to say the same thing, the wages of sin is death.

It is better to be drowned in the sea than to face God's wrath which results in destruction.

What wrath is death? If one is dead, one cannot feel anything. If there is nothing to feel, there is nothing to fear (according to your logic).

And, if it is like you say (God's wrath = destruction = death), then Jesus basically said in that passage it is better to die than to die. How does that work out? Drowning is a horrible experience (trust me, I almost fell victim to it), how would that be better than being utterly destroyed to the point of annihilation? I would rather be instantly destroyed than to prolong my agony by drowning. No, I am afraid that doesn't make any sense.

To add confusion to that, Jesus's mention of an unquenchable fire and a never dying worm make no sense in your line of thought.

In Christ, GB

 

[good brother]

Luke 13:3

I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Jesus said perish, not burn alive in eternal fire forever and ever and ever and ever.

Later on in that chapter He says they will be weeping and gnashing their teeth. It would be very hard to do that if they are annihilated. Check out what it says in Matthew about the weeping and gnashing:

36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.​

So, if we know Jesus doesn't lie, apparently where ever these evil people are when they are weeping and gnashing their teeth, the place is referred to as a fiery furnace. Anyone who has seen a fire knows that people don't live long in the midst of a hot one, so it would be odd that Jesus would say that they will be "weeping and gnashing their teeth" instead of something like "they will be burned up and utterly destroyed". That doesn't sound like annihilation to me.

Thoughts?

In Christ, GB

 

[Montalban]

Saying that your church supports your view is really saying very little. You might as well say "those who agree with me are in agreement with me."
Talk about circular logic!

That's a straw-man. It wasn't the only argument I've made.

That's the second time your posts have missed on this point.

It's why I think most people would take a step-back and look at what they're posting.

If their only reply is a constanst stream of logical fallacies then it might be time to re-evaluate.

You could, in theory, be correct. Your reasoning for it is so far demonstrated to be spurrious

 

[Montalban]

What wrath is death? If one is dead, one cannot feel anything. If there is nothing to feel, there is nothing to fear (according to your logic).

This is a good point. I hadn't considered that.

 

[good brother]

This is a good point. I hadn't considered that.

Thank you. It was actually one of my first thoughts about this subject, however due to my lack of being able to form a proper sentence, it has taken me this long to bring it out.

 

[Timothew]

That's a straw-man. It wasn't the only argument I've made.

That's the second time your posts have missed on this point.

It's why I think most people would take a step-back and look at what they're posting.

If their only reply is a constanst stream of logical fallacies then it might be time to re-evaluate.

You could, in theory, be correct. Your reasoning for it is so far demonstrated to be spurrious

Go back and read the first post.

 

[Montalban]

Go back and read the first post.

Yes, going back to circular reasoning doesn't help.

 

[Montalban]

Thank you. It was actually one of my first thoughts about this subject, however due to my lack of being able to form a proper sentence, it has taken me this long to bring it out.

There's a remarkable amount of ideas here on these threads that are supposed to be "Christian" but have echos in Islam.

Some Moslems believe people pass through a lake of fire, and that's it.

I think Christians should be aware of what is influencing them in their interpretation of Scripture.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Our L-rd Jesus said, “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out” (Mark 9:43). He also said, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life” (Matthew 25:46). In one instance He condemned the Scribes and the Pharisees by saying, "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?" (Matthew 23:33, NIV).

* The New Testament describes hell as a bottomless pit (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14), darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), everlasting torment (Revelation 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation 20:12-13), “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10). * Sources for the Scriptures: Is hell real? Is hell eternal?; Is hell literally a place of fire and brimstone?.

"9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name” Revelation 14:9-11 (emphasis added).

The following articles are also very informative on the reality of hell being eternal punishment and torment, not annihilation.

1) Is annihilationism biblical?

2) How can I not go to hell?

3) The Reality of Hell

4) Is there an actual place called “Hell”?

5) Hell - From a Biblical Point of View

Here are three more resources on the subject of hell being eternal punishment and torment.

1) A Search on hell from GotQuestions.org

2) A Search on hell from CARM.org

3) A Search on hell from All About God.com

 

[Montalban]

Our L-rd Jesus said, “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out” (Mark 9:43). He also said, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life” (Matthew 25:46). In one instance He condemned the Scribes and the Pharisees by saying, "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?" (Matthew 23:33, NIV).

Indeed!

Why would Jesus be telling us to do this if it was only a temporary torment?

Cutting off one's hand is permanent.

If the torment was temporary, I'm sure many would be thinking that it'd be worth going through it.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Indeed!

Why would Jesus be telling us to do this if it was only a temporary torment?

Cutting off one's hand is permanent.

If the torment was temporary, I'm sure many would be thinking that it'd be worth going through it.

I simply cannot understand how a Christian can deny the reality of hell being eternal punishment and torment when OUR L-RD Himself described it as such. Do they think He lied or wasn't serious when He said “If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where “‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched'" (Mark 9:43-48). I find it truly perplexing to see a professing Christian not believe and outright deny what the Scriptures clearly teach about hell, let alone what our L-rd had to say about it.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

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[LadyOfMystery]

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