Tariki, you are welcome to believe as many faiths as you like. I must speak what I believe to be true.....just as you. In the end, when this very short life is over, I hope to see you there.
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Does the bible teach that there is a hell of eternal torment for unbelievers?
- Thread starter Timothew
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G
good brother
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Thank you for posting the reference. Knowing that I have posted the Mark 9 passage the corresponds with the Matthew 18 passage, do you think that we can examine the words there and learn something? Mark saysin chapter 9:
47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell
Where as Matthew says in chapter 18:
9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Do you think the two blue words in each passage are equal in meaning in the two texts? What I mean to say is that do you believe both verses are saying the same thing? Does "life" = "kingdom of God"? What exactly is the "knigdom of God"? is it life like we know and have it now or is it something different than the life we have presently? The "kingdom of God" is synonomous with "the kingdom of heaven". From this we can know that:
Kingdom of God = kingdom of Heaven = life = eternal life
Now look at the last part of both verses. They both warn the listener/ reader about it being better to go to KoG, life as a cripple or maimed than to go to another place complete. What is that other place? I highlighted them in red. It says "hell" is the other destination. What is "hell"? Is it merely a second physical death? The Mark passage describes it as containing fire. So, at least we know it will be fiery there. Mark also says that, in addition to the fire, it will be a place where the worm will not die. Now if "hell" is just another word for a physical death, why would the reader/listener care if it was filled with fire or an undying worm?
I have other passages for us to discuss, but let's start here.
In Christ, GB
P.S. I would still like to have your response to what Jesus was talking about when He talked about it being better for someone to be drowned in the sea than to face.... what exactly?
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Death means the condition of not being alive. If death means something different to you, perhaps you should adjust your thinking.
Destruction means to be destroyed.
What mountain of lies it that? Romans 6:23 or 2 Thess 1:9?
What is your REAL reason for resisting the truth?
Not at all. I am quoting God's word. I think that you don't like that because God's word disagrees with your tradition. You nullify the word of God by your tradition that has been handed down to you.
Not by me, I agree with God's word. You are the one saying that death doesn't really mean death in Romans 6:23, and destruction doesn'ty really mean destruction in 2 Thess 1:9. Denying the meaning of the words in scripture destroys the integrity of what God's word says. You are the one doing this.
I know that's right, I see you doing it.
Yes, the REMNANT will. The majority clings to their false traditions of hell fire and eternal torture.
You keep talking about confusion. You are authoring confusion by denying what the scriptures say.
Because the second death is everlasting destruction, there is no resurrection from the second death.
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You seem to enjoy insulting me. Did God tell you to insult me?
How do you know that YOUR definitions aren't from "worldly wisdom"?
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Tariki
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I see you have not thought about it. Or only so much as to "justify" yourself, and there it stops. It really isn't rocket science you know, though it might seem so to some........
Hope to see me where?
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I agree, the kingdom of God is eternal life. Not entering the kingdom of God is to not have eternal life. Not having life is having death. So all the scriptures work together to say the same thing, the wages of sin is death.
It is better to be drowned in the sea than to face God's wrath which results in destruction.
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OK, which parts do not align with the "FULL COUNSEL" of the word?Worldy wisdom doesn't align itself with God's word. And what you're teaching ain't aligning with the FULL COUNSEL of the word.
Thus...
(Incidentally I could say the same thing to you, since you don't agree with Romans 6:23, 2 Thess 1:9, John 3:16, Ezekiel 16 and other scriptures.)
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No, I believe there is an eternal punishment. The wages of sin is death. Death is eternal punishment. GOD is right and you are wrong.Umm. Let's try it again. You say there is no eternal punishment. God says there is.
It ain't too complicated to establish that GOD is right and you are wrong.
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Zaac
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And here we go again. Nobody asked you what you believe. Folks believe in Santa Claus. Tha doesn't make Santa Claus the truth.
Does God's word say that death is eternal punishment? Nope. You don't even have a grasp of what Biblical death is so you don't have a foundation to say what death is.
So yes, God is right and you are STILL wrong. But that was established at the start of this thread.
As much as it may make some folks feel guilty about the fate of their dead loved ones, if someone goes to hell or the Lake of Fire, they are spending eternity in eternal punishment there.
Perhaps if folks appealed to the living as stridently as you're fighting for those who have already been judged, some wouldn't have to make up these false teachings to assuage feelings.
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And I never asked you what you believe, but you still pushed your way into the discussion, insulting me with every post.
What is death to you anyway? I think that you don't know what death is.
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Folks believe in eternal torment in hell-fire. That doesn't make eternal torment the truth.
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Zaac
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ANd you saw nowhere that I stated I believed anything. You saw e say that the word of God says. Your problem is with God and if having it pointed out that your statements are att odds with God's word offends you, then align yourself with His word.
i' not God. It doesn't matter what death is to me. It matters what He says and examples death to be.
And until you grab hold of that, you put yourself in that same boat as tariki when it comes to teaching the Saints.
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If I just agreed with you, would you go away?Sure doesn't. It's the truth because GOD says so.
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Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Jesus said perish, not burn alive in eternal fire forever and ever and ever and ever.
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Jesus said perish, not burn alive in eternal fire forever and ever and ever and ever.
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You are correct! I'll just ignore Zaac. I'm sure nobody wants to see us argue.But hell doesn't work like that. It's supposed to be eternal. Arguments like this will never ever end, no matter how petty they get!
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Have you seen the thread in UT "Let's talk about hell (5)"?But hell doesn't work like that. It's supposed to be eternal. Arguments like this will never ever end, no matter how petty they get!
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