Tithing!

[Frogster]

^^^^THIS.

the problem is, the tithing teachers always say tithe to them, instead of giving to the poor.

"Tithing" was for the temple.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Paul said the law was a shadow of things to come, but not the very image of those things.

This means the law was a sign given to reflect something else. Just as the Lord told Israel it shall be a sign between me and you.

So what does the sign of the tithe reflect?

It is the Lords portion.

What is the Lords portion?

It is his people.

Deuteronomy 32:9;"For the Lords portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance."

Nehemiah 11:1;"And the rulers of the people dwelt at Jerusalem: the rest of the people also cast lots, to bring in one of ten to dwell in Jerusalem the holy city, and nine parts dwell in other cities."

2 Chronicles 31:5;"And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and all of the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundance."

Jeremiah 2:3;"Israel was holiness unto the Lord, and the firstfruits of his increase: all that devour him shall offend; evil shall come upon them, saith the Lord."

1 Corinthians 15:20;"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."

James 1:18;"Of his own will begat he us with the Word of Truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."

Revelation 14:4;"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goes. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

Isaiah 6:13;"But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as the teil tree, and as the oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof."

Galations 4:21;"Tell me, you that desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?"


Those who have ears to ear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying.

 

[Don Oscar]

the problem is, the tithing teachers always say tithe to them, instead of giving to the poor.

"Tithing" was for the temple.

For the Temple, not for the church.

 

[New_Wineskin]

the problem is, the tithing teachers always say tithe to them, instead of giving to the poor.

"Tithing" was for the temple.

If you mean the temple - the building , I will disagree with you there . None of it was for the Temple - as it was produce , only - what comes from the plants and animals raised .

From what I remember ...
One tithe was for the Levites - those that can prove their decendance from Levi - specifically , the priests . The priests were to bring a tithe of the tithes they received to the storehouse for the high priest .

One tithe was for themselves to eat during a festival - in Israel and giving extra to the poor and such .

Of course , this is all about the Mosaic covenant . The OP didn't mention which definition of "tithe" they were using so it may not have anything to do with the thread .

You are correct , "biblically" there is no mention of *this* tithing being transferred to the Christian arena . Since we are all priests , we are not going to be giving things to each other . And , our high priest is Jesus . The only way to give anything to Him would be to burn it as an offerring .

 

[New_Wineskin]

Giving is great, to the poor, or if one feels led to share with a certain ministry, but we are not under compulsion.

There are no NT teachings on tithing.

The tithe teachers never talk about how Paul worked not to be a burden, and the little he got from some churches, he said he did not talk about his need, or as J. Vernon McGee said, Paul did not send out an sos in Phil 4:11, or in 4;17, he said he did not seek it, and called it a gift, meaning it was not a demand compulsion.

 

[David64]

Let's settle this thing once and for all.

Seriously, let's discuss it and share what we understand about
tithing. When it began, why it was practiced, when/if it was discontinued.

And fight NICE guys.


Thanks.
I'll begin.
Up until recently, I had tithed for the past 20+ years.
LAtely I have not been "tithing" because some folks here
convinced me that it MIGHT not be a good thing to do.
(went through the same thing with tongues a few years
back too. Stopped praying in tongues because of what
people here said )

So for me, this is a very serious issue.

Thanks in advance.
SL

Sounds like you're easily blown by every wind of doctrine.

 

[David64]

The great thing IMO about the Christian life is that we are not bound to give God 10% of our income. Rather, we have the liberty to give more, or less, as we love God. I am inclined to think that most give more than 10%, but statistics tell me otherwise. The bottom line is that God knows our hearts and what matters is that we give both cheerfully and seriously.

We are to give no question.
But tithing is not about giving, tithing is like paying your rent, it is payed, offerings are given.
Two totally different things.

 

[Don Oscar]

We are to give no question.
But tithing is not about giving, tithing is like paying your rent, it is payed, offerings are given.
Two totally different things.

We are not supposed tio give. That is not NT doctrine. Only in exceptional situations when a specific need arouse is when we have to provide for that new problem. Not like giving is something we usually practice, but is like we do it as an exception to the normal situation.

 

[sunlover1]

Sounds like you're easily blown by every wind of doctrine.

And welcome to CF!
I can see why you might think that. Heh.
You're obviously new here. Read some of my other threads.
I'm quite steadfast in most cases.

I was deceived about tongues, to be sure.
But not wholly deceived, as all I did was
refrain for a time, but I am back.

As far as the tithing, you got something besides insults?
Let's hear it.



As for the rest of the posts here,
I am overwhelmed with the love and devotion I see!
(Towards God)




God bless you all !

 

[Lion King]

We are not supposed tio give. That is not NT doctrine. Only in exceptional situations when a specific need arouse is when we have to provide for that new problem. Not like giving is something we usually practice, but is like we do it as an exception to the normal situation.

What do you make of this situation in the Book of Acts?

Sharing in All Things

32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.
36 And Joses, who was also named Barnabas by the apostles (which is translated Son of Encouragement), a Levite of the country of Cyprus, 37 having land, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet. Acts 4:32-37

 

[Frogster]

For the Temple, not for the church.

I know, i just said that.

 

[Frogster]

If you mean the temple - the building , I will disagree with you there . None of it was for the Temple - as it was produce , only - what comes from the plants and animals raised .

From what I remember ...
One tithe was for the Levites - those that can prove their decendance from Levi - specifically , the priests . The priests were to bring a tithe of the tithes they received to the storehouse for the high priest .

One tithe was for themselves to eat during a festival - in Israel and giving extra to the poor and such .

Of course , this is all about the Mosaic covenant . The OP didn't mention which definition of "tithe" they were using so it may not have anything to do with the thread .

You are correct , "biblically" there is no mention of *this* tithing being transferred to the Christian arena . Since we are all priests , we are not going to be giving things to each other . And , our high priest is Jesus . The only way to give anything to Him would be to burn it as an offerring .

yes, it was yield from the land. But they put it in store houses, for the priests who served in rotation. But today, we have pastors talking all about the storehouses, to get cash for themselves, as u know.

 

[New_Wineskin]

yes, it was yield from the land. But they put it in store houses, for the priests who served in rotation. But today, we have pastors talking all about the storehouses, to get cash for themselves, as u know.

Exactly !!

This topic alone justifies my concept that most of those pushing "bible only" don't do what they push . "you who preach against stealing , do you steal ?"

The rules on tithing ( following the command of tithing for the Israelites ) are clear when looking at them . And , they don't fit in any way the "tithing" pushed on christians when quoting any passage about tithing .

 

[Standing Up]

Let's settle this thing once and for all.

Seriously, let's discuss it and share what we understand about
tithing. When it began, why it was practiced, when/if it was discontinued.

And fight NICE guys.


Thanks.
I'll begin.
Up until recently, I had tithed for the past 20+ years.
LAtely I have not been "tithing" because some folks here
convinced me that it MIGHT not be a good thing to do.
(went through the same thing with tongues a few years
back too. Stopped praying in tongues because of what
people here said )

So for me, this is a very serious issue.

Thanks in advance.
SL

Couple of things.

1) Most folks who teach tithing, don't really teach it accurately. For example, it was originally based on agriculture, but you could substitue cash at the rate of 120% of your tithe (IOW, if your lamb was worth $100, the cash substitute was $120.) So, folks who tithe cash, aren't really tithing anyway.

2) Most folks also don't talk about the 3rd year tithe. So, again, not tithe accurate anyway.

3) The real thing, IMO, is that it perpetuates the notion of a separate office of NT priest (like the OT levite tribe). IOW, how does the priest hood of believer tithe to a priest? It makes just as much sense to tell the pastor to tithe to you (good luck with that ).

4) Folks toss out Malachi as a warning (much like folks talk about the eucharist warning in 1 Cor--as a method to perpetuate the notion of a NT priest). But they neglect the whole council of Malachi (tithes and offerings, etc.) And, of course, if you place yourself under that law, you're obligated to the whole law.

So, what is the alternative?

Give as you feel led. (The righteous walk by faith.)

 

[sunlover1]

Couple of things.

1) Most folks who teach tithing, don't really teach it accurately. For example, it was originally based on agriculture, but you could substitue cash at the rate of 120% of your tithe (IOW, if your lamb was worth $100, the cash substitute was $120.) So, folks who tithe cash, aren't really tithing anyway.

Hi friend!
So only those who 'grew things' could give a tithe then?

2) Most folks also don't talk about the 3rd year tithe. So, again, not tithe accurate anyway.

3) The real thing, IMO, is that it perpetuates the notion of a separate office of NT priest (like the OT levite tribe). IOW, how does the priest hood of believer tithe to a priest? It makes just as much sense to tell the pastor to tithe to you (good luck with that ).

Good points. and yeah lol to the last idea.

4) Folks toss out Malachi as a warning (much like folks talk about the eucharist warning in 1 Cor--as a method to perpetuate the notion of a NT priest). But they neglect the whole council of Malachi (tithes and offerings, etc.) And, of course, if you place yourself under that law, you're obligated to the whole law.

Then tithing was a 'law'?

So, what is the alternative?

Give as you feel led. (The righteous walk by faith.)

Amen bro.
that's what I've always done,
I'm just standing back taking a fresh look at all of this,
sort of an effort to keep my heart right, kwim?

 

[Frogster]

Hi friend!
So only those who 'grew things' could give a tithe then?



Good points. and yeah lol to the last idea.

Then tithing was a 'law'?


Amen bro.
that's what I've always done,
I'm just standing back taking a fresh look at all of this,
sort of an effort to keep my heart right, kwim?

yeah, a temple law, that is gone for 2000 years.



7;5And those descendants of Levi who receive the priestly office have a commandment in the law to take tithes from the people, that is, from their brothers,[a] though these also are descended from Abraham.

 

[Frogster]

Exactly !!

This topic alone justifies my concept that most of those pushing "bible only" don't do what they push . "you who preach against stealing , do you steal ?"

The rules on tithing ( following the command of tithing for the Israelites ) are clear when looking at them . And , they don't fit in any way the "tithing" pushed on christians when quoting any passage about tithing .

i hear ya loud-n-clear!

Some churhces even say, "tithes AND offerings", they wanna really milk it for all it's worth.

 

[Tavita]

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

Paul said the law was a shadow of things to come, but not the very image of those things.

This means the law was a sign given to reflect something else. Just as the Lord told Israel it shall be a sign between me and you.

So what does the sign of the tithe reflect?

It is the Lords portion.

What is the Lords portion?

It is his people.
​

Deuteronomy 32:9;"For the Lords portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance."

Nehemiah 11:1;"And the rulers of the people dwelt at Jerusalem: the rest of the people also cast lots, to bring in one of ten to dwell in Jerusalem the holy city, and nine parts dwell in other cities."

2 Chronicles 31:5;"And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and all of the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundance."

Jeremiah 2:3;"Israel was holiness unto the Lord, and the firstfruits of his increase: all that devour him shall offend; evil shall come upon them, saith the Lord."

1 Corinthians 15:20;"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."

James 1:18;"Of his own will begat he us with the Word of Truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."

Revelation 14:4;"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goes. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

Isaiah 6:13;"But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as the teil tree, and as the oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof."

Galations 4:21;"Tell me, you that desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?"


Those who have ears to ear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying.

I'm hearing you, InSpiritInTruth!

And totally agree.

 

[GaryArnold]

1) Most folks who teach tithing, don't really teach it accurately. For example, it was originally based on agriculture, but you could substitue cash at the rate of 120% of your tithe (IOW, if your lamb was worth $100, the cash substitute was $120.) So, folks who tithe cash, aren't really tithing anyway.

Just to make things Biblically accurate here:

You could never substitute cash for the tithe. You could redeem the tithe, which means you had to have the tithe to begin with in order to buy it back. Small point, but important. The tithe was the crops, not the money. See Leviticus 27:31.

ONLY the tithe of crops could be redeemed. Animals (the lamb in your example) could never be redeemed. See Leviticus 27:33.

The Biblical tithe could never be money, and it could never come from income.

 

[sunlover1]

Paul said the law was a shadow of things to come, but not the very image of those things.

This means the law was a sign given to reflect something else. Just as the Lord told Israel it shall be a sign between me and you.

So what does the sign of the tithe reflect?

It is the Lords portion.

What is the Lords portion?

It is his people.

Amen. Why do you call tithing "law" though?
Can't someone tithe without it being law?
I know one can because I've given for many years
and not as an "obligation" but as a blessing.
What a blessing to ME to give to God's people!

The great thing IMO about the Christian life is that we are not bound to give God 10% of our income. Rather, we have the liberty to give more, or less, as we love God. I am inclined to think that most give more than 10%, but statistics tell me otherwise. The bottom line is that God knows our hearts and what matters is that we give both cheerfully and seriously.

Halleluia. I agree.
Although I haven't "given" in some time, I would often give months worth
at a time.... AS I felt led to do. Who's leading me to give?
Well it's surely not the devil
Either God or my own voice, and either way, it can't be a bad thing to
give to the church.

Tithing began with Moses and the Law. Before that, Abraham did tithe only one single time in his entire life. Nobody before Abraham did tithe. Ismael and Isaac did not tithe. Esau and Jacob did not tithe. Jocob made a promes to beging tithing but never kep it. The sons of Israel never tithe.

Thanks Don.
How can we know that Abraham never again "tithed"? Or that
NObody before Abraham did it.
Can we really "know" that?

It was practiced to give financial support to the Levy, because they did not inherit land. That is why tithe was only over the land, and not over any other economical activity. And it was for maintenance of the sacrifices and the sanctuary.

One ended the sacrifices and the sanctuary, tithing became unnecesary. Once the Aaronic priest being substituted by Christ, the tithing cames to an end.

Interesting. this is what I HAD understood as well but then did giving ever
really come to an end? Maybe it just changed names or form.