How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

[Zeena]

*snip*
Now, in their historical context, I need to check to see whether the Israelites were able to reconsitute the kingdom of Israel after the Assyrian conquest.

Rom 15:
4For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by he-man You just do not get it. All of those have yet to be fulfilled refuting Matthew 24 and any notion that they have already been fulfilled

Whoa! Calm down. Chill. It wasn't clear to me that this was your argument. From the context, I thought you were arguing in support of the position that Matthew 24 had been fulfilled. .

Umm...did you happen to see how he voted

I view it as none of it is fulfilled

13 13.27%

 

[lucaspa]

Is the record in the Gospel of Luke in error then?

For that particular detail, probably not. It serves a theological purpose for Luke.

Is Jerusalem above or below?

Gal 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

I consider this type of exegesis extremely dangerous and flawed. You can't retrodict a separate context from Galatians back to Isaiah. The 2 books are talking about different subjects and ripping a single verse out of context from Galatians to make Isaiah look like he wasn't talking about the real, earthly city of Jerusalem is, (how do I say this politely?) telling something that is less than truthful.

Do we require oil?

Assyria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(EG:Iran)

Sorry, but the Assyria Isaiah is talking about doesn't exist anymore. And actually, the Wiki article says that ancient Assyria was based in what is today northern Iraq. So no, we are not enslaved to Assyria. We are not even "enslaved" to the oil producing states in the MidEast. Needing oil does not = "enslaved".

Isa 9:2
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

Acts 22:6
And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.

Rev 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

The same problem with out of context I noted above. Paul's revelation happened to him alone. No one else (and there were several in his party) saw the light. No one else in Damascus saw the light. So, when you take the entire context, that event can't be the "fulfillment" of the prophecy.

Also note that Paul is saying that the sun is still shining.

Matt 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Again, out of context. What "now" is Jesus speaking about? His time. Isaiah talks about a time when there is no violence, doesn't it?

So, if you think Matthew 24 has already been fulfilled, where is the Son of Man?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
..Do we require oil?....

That is also mentioned a few times in the jewish/hebrew book of Revelation

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

Young) Revelation 6:6 and I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, `A measure of wheat for a denary, and three measures of barley for a denary,' and `The oil/elaion <1637> and the wine thou mayest not injure.'

Young) Revelation 18:13 and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense, and wine, and oil/elaion <1637>, and fine flour, and wheat, and cattle, and sheep, and of horses, and of chariots, and of bodies and souls of men.

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G1637 matches the Greek &#7956;&#955;&#945;&#953;&#959;&#957; (elaion), which occurs 11 times in 11 verses in the Greek concordance

1637. elaion neuter of the same as 1636; olive oil:--oil.

 

[Zeena]

For that particular detail, probably not. It serves a theological purpose for Luke.

You believe this "particular detail" is in error if taken at face value then?

I consider this type of exegesis extremely dangerous and flawed. You can't retrodict a separate context from Galatians back to Isaiah. The 2 books are talking about different subjects and ripping a single verse out of context from Galatians to make Isaiah look like he wasn't talking about the real, earthly city of Jerusalem is, (how do I say this politely?) telling something that is less than truthful.

In speaking of earthy Jerusalem;

Matt 23:37-39
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Rom 11:19-23
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

And Heavenly Jerusalem;

Gal 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Eph 2:11-22
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Sorry, but the Assyria Isaiah is talking about doesn't exist anymore. And actually, the Wiki article says that ancient Assyria was based in what is today northern Iraq. So no, we are not enslaved to Assyria. We are not even "enslaved" to the oil producing states in the MidEast. Needing oil does not = "enslaved".

Same dif, as they are both oil states.

Point being, to 'need' anything besides God is idolatry;

Matt 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

The same problem with out of context I noted above. Paul's revelation happened to him alone. No one else (and there were several in his party) saw the light. No one else in Damascus saw the light. So, when you take the entire context, that event can't be the "fulfillment" of the prophecy.

2 Cor 4:1-7
Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

John 12:36
While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Also note that Paul is saying that the sun is still shining.

The sun is to be our light no longer, rather Christ.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Again, out of context. What "now" is Jesus speaking about? His time. Isaiah talks about a time when there is no violence, doesn't it?

And Jesus tells us that time is now.

John 16:17
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

So, if you think Matthew 24 has already been fulfilled, where is the Son of Man?

Eph 1:21-23
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[he-man]

Is the record in the Gospel of Luke in error then? Did the earth shake, were the Patriarchs scattered?

Is Jerusalem above or below?

Gal 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

This was written to show that we are to inherit the promises not the people of Cain.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Do nations still wage war?
The heavenly Jerusalem is coming to earth from above.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Psa 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

Isa 2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. Matt 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

 

[effervescenteye]

After 53 pages of theophilosophical debate, can any of you cite a specific example of something that you learned from someone else in this thread? Quote, name and link, please.

That is, I wonder&#8212;
Are you a seeker of truth and wisdom?
Or are you a seeker of pride and ego?

 

[razeontherock]

Interesting point, Mr Eye. I should point out that when using our quote function, a little blue arrow pops up, which takes you to the quoted post. Thus a link is not necessary. It also provides the poster name.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

After 53 pages of theophilosophical debate, can any of you cite a specific example of something that you learned from someone else in this thread? Quote, name and link, please.

That is, I wonder—
Are you a seeker of truth and wisdom?
Or are you a seeker of pride and ego?

I don't want sound picky, but I would suggest if you are Christian, you should sport a Christian Seeker icon.

 

[effervescenteye]

Interesting point, Mr Eye. I should point out that when using our quote function, a little blue arrow pops up, which takes you to the quoted post. Thus a link is not necessary. It also provides the poster name.

I don't want sound picky, but I would suggest if you are Christian, you should sport a Christian Seeker icon.

Note your shared evasion of the question.

Pride and the acquisition of wisdom are mutually exclusive, for wisdom begets pride, and pride begets ignorance.

Pride must be fought into eternity, for as you subdue it, you gain wisdom, but as you gain a little wisdom—piece by piece—pride sneaks upon you again for another round of battle.

If you can subdue pride eternally, you shall soon enter into eternal wisdom.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus I don't want sound picky, but I would suggest if you are Christian, you should sport a Christian Seeker icon.

Note your shared evasion of the question.

Pride and the acquisition of wisdom are mutually exclusive, for wisdom begets pride, and pride begets ignorance.

Pride must be fought into eternity, for as you subdue it, you gain wisdom, but as you gain a little wisdom&#8212;piece by piece&#8212;pride sneaks upon you again for another round of battle.

If you can subdue pride eternally, you shall soon enter into eternal wisdom.

I also noticed you haven't voted yet

 

[Zeena]

Note your shared evasion of the question.

Pride and the acquisition of wisdom are mutually exclusive, for wisdom begets pride, and pride begets ignorance.

Pride must be fought into eternity, for as you subdue it, you gain wisdom, but as you gain a little wisdom—piece by piece—pride sneaks upon you again for another round of battle.

If you can subdue pride eternally, you shall soon enter into eternal wisdom.

Sounds to me like you make wisdom a thing to be obtained, rather than grasped;

1 Cor 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1 Cor 1:24
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1 Cor 2:5-16
That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

Eph 3:10-12
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

 

[effervescenteye]

Heavenly wisdom is that which has been and always will be yet is shrouded by the emanations of the self-willed and the subsequent perversion of priority amidst the earthly realm.

Wisdom is neither obtained nor grasped&#8212;it is a thing to be heard with the Ears and seen with the Eyes, but to do that, we must stop speaking and open-wide our eyes.

You're absolutely right: no mortal man may drink of it&#8212;that is why the man within must bear his own cross and die, in order to become a vessel for the Spirit.

 

[Zeena]

Heavenly wisdom is that which has been and always will be

Heb 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever

http://www.christianforums.com/t7426625/#post58447387

yet is shrouded by the emanations of the self-willed and the subsequent perversion of priority amidst the earthly realm.

1 John 2:10
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

Wisdom is neither obtained nor grasped&#8212;

I'm only quoting the Apostle Paul;

Eph 3:10-19
His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. I ask you, therefore, not to be discouraged because of my sufferings for you, which are your glory.
For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name. I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord&#8217;s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge&#8212;that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

Phil 3:9-12
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

it is a thing to be heard with the Ears and seen with the Eyes,

Isa 42:19
Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant?

John 9:39
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

Ps 147:5-6
Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.
The LORD lifteth up the meek: he casteth the wicked down to the ground.

but to do that, we must stop speaking and open-wide our eyes.

My Father does not want me to stop speaking with Him. He desires for me to speak with Him regarding all things. This is the Spirit of Christ in me, leaning on my Heavenly Father.

You're absolutely right: no mortal man may drink of it&#8212;

I said no such thing;

Acts 2:39
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

1 Cor 1:24b
Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

that is why the man within must bear his own cross and die, in order to become a vessel for the Spirit.

Heb 9:8
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Mark 11:30
The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.

 

[Zeena]

This was written to show that we are to inherit the promises not the people of Cain.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

I agree.

Now, please allow me to ask, rhetorically, are we now the children of God, or only later, at the second coming of Christ? Is He our Light and Life now, or only later?

Though for now we may see only as through a glass dimly, do we see Him nonetheless? Do we not go from glory to glory in the Lord, or simply from rags to riches only at His second coming, though we be rich?

Are we now made to be priests through the Spirit of Christ, or only when we see Him face to face?

Are we complete in Him? Do we lack any good Spiritual gift?

Ergo, is the Salvation of the Lord both now and then.

Do nations still wage war?

I believe I answered to this already in the post you are quoting. Through unbelief men do many, many, terrible things, not of God.

Are the unbelievers being weeded out, just as surely as the Lord Lives!
For they cannot help but go from bad to worse, and society as a whole, has no place for evildoers.

The heavenly Jerusalem is coming to earth from above.

Matt 12:28
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luke 8:10
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Luke 9:2;10:9;17:21
And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Eph 2:4-27

The above verses of Scripture [Eph 2:4-27], combined with the body of Scripture, speak plainly of that which now is. We are saved, sanctified, holy Saints, crucified with and risen, by and with, Christ Jesus, in the Heavenlies.

NOW is the day of Salvation, TODAY Salvation is come to us, in the Person of Christ.
As it is now so will it be then, only to a more Glorious degree.

For a seed is but a plant without form.

I tell you, the Heavenly Jerusalem is already here, for Christ Lives in our hearts by faith. And He is the King of the city of God. Though in this world our faith be prone to waver, for the futility of our flesh, we have believed on Him nonetheless, even if our faith be as a mustard seed. We know that it shall flourish, by the Grace of God through that same mustard seed of faith, for we cling to the hope of being conformed to the Image of Christ.

We are of those who do not shrink back, but believe, unto the saving of our souls.

As Elijha said, wait for Him, He is coming.

Rev 3:20 [NIV]
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Note the usage of the grammar above; "ye ARE come", present tense.

Psa 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

Isa 2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

Heb 11:39
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Heb 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Col 2:9-15
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

 

[Evergreen48]

[/COLOR][/FONT]The USA is no longer a godly nation and that was God's way of starting to tear it down when they pay more attention to Gaddafi and Libia, than they do to the Bombimg and massacres in Israel. [/SIZE]Strong's G[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]3799 &#972;&#968;&#951; &#972;&#968;&#959;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#953; &#959;&#968;&#953;&#962; &#959;&#968;&#949;&#963;&#952;&#949; face, countenance, view, visage, sight look, obverse, semblance, view with wide open eyes; when he shall appear It is not set up yet because God shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms,

iron — The reference, therefore, seems to be to the blending of the Christianized Roman empire with the pagan nations, a deterioration being the result.

Christians, are taught to submit to the powers that be, so that it must be dealt by Christ Himself at His coming again. JFB

Isa 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

1Co 15:24 Then the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom
which shall not be destroyed.

He-man, you are rambling. When you have answered the two questions that was put before you in post # 49, then maybe we can discuss some more.

Why would Jesus tell his people at that time to watch for something that he knew would not occur until at least 2000 years later?


If his kingdom which was set up in the days of the Roman Caesars would stand forever, why would he need to set up another one?

 

[Evergreen48]

So you are saying we get to ignore this part of the prophecy? That these things don't have to come true before the prophecy is fulfilled?
If that is the case, then Jesus is only referring to the destruction of the Temple, but then, his disciples don't think so

No one has ignored any part of the prophecy or suggested that anyone else should either. If the concern is over verse 29 where it is written that "then shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:", understanding that in prophecy, 'heaven' was always the symbol of government, the higher places in the political uninverse, may help. The Jews believed; and rightfully so, that their government of laws and ordinances had been handed down directly from God who, of course, resides in heaven. So the heavenly bodies; the sun, the moon, and the stars, in prophetic language, would have symbolized those laws, and those who taught the law and dispensed it through the temple of God, which was completely distroyed in 70 A.D. when the Roman army marched on Jerusalem and completely razed the holy city and the holy temple. Many of those wicked men; the doctors and the lawyers, who twisted God's holy laws to suit their own greedy ambitions, and for their own personal gain were killed. And so, in the spiritual sense, gross darkness ensued throughout the land. We may be sure that those who were left indeed smote their breasts in grief and despair as they looked around them and saw such death and devastation as then reigned throughout what had once been the glorious and beautiful city of God.


It has been asked, if Jesus came at that time, where is he now? The answer to that, is that his coming, or presense
(parousia ) was not a physical, flesh and blood presence, for Jesus no longer has an earthly body, but has moved into a spiritual body which cannot be seen with earthly eyes. But he is present with us, as his spiritual presence abides in the hearts and minds of his people, teaching us, and leading us along the paths of righteousness as we shed this mortal body and sink into immortality.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It has been asked, if Jesus came at that time, where is he now? The answer to that, is that his coming, or presense
(parousia ) was not a physical, flesh and blood presence, for Jesus no longer has an earthly body, but has moved into a spiritual body which cannot be seen with earthly eyes. But he is present with us, as his spiritual presence abides in the hearts and minds of his people, teaching us, and leading us along the paths of righteousness as we shed this mortal body and sink into immortality.

Thanks for bringing that up sis

http://www.christianforums.com/t7431980/#post58220238
Where is the Parousia of Matt 24 showing in Revelation?

Strong's Number G3952 matches the Greek &#960;&#945;&#961;&#959;&#965;&#963;&#8055;&#945; (parousia), which occurs 24 times in 24 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

Matthew 24:3 Of sitting yet of Him upon the Mount of the Olives toward-came to Him the Disciples according to own saying "be telling to us when? shall these-things be and what? the sign of the Thy parousiaV <3952> and the together-finish of the Age"
[Daniel 12/1Corin 15:23/Revelation 19:11]

 

[he-man]

I agree.

Now, please allow me to ask, rhetorically, are we now the children of God, or only later, at the second coming of Christ? Is He our Light and Life now, or only later?

Have you inherited the EARTH? You are very confused.
Luk 13:24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Mat 25:3They thatwerefoolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[Zeena]

Have you inherited the EARTH? You are very confused.

If I'm in error I trust my Father to put me on the good path, again.

Luk 13:24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Do we strive [to enter in] while we are alive or dead?

Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Do we wait upon the Lord while we are alive or dead?

1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Present tense, check the greek

http://studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=1jo+5:12&it=kjv&ot=bhs&nt=na&sr=1&l=en

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Present tense. Check the greek

http://studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=john+3%3A36&section=0&it=kjv&oq=1jo%25205%3A12&ot=bhs&nt=na&new=1&nb=1jo&ng=5&ncc=5

Mat 25:3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

Matt 25:10
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Were the virgins not purchasing their oil while the bridgroom taried?

Ergo, this is also for the living.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

IF thou continue in His Goodness?

Will we have flesh to subdue [and cause us to stumble] in our Glorified bodies?

Matt 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Luke 20:36
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.